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What logged jumps count towards the 15 "coaching jumps" required to renew a coach rating?

 


Poll: What logged jumps count towards the 15 "coaching jumps" required to renew a coach rating?
Coaching an unlicensed skydiver (Pre A License) 30 / 31%
Coaching an uncurrent but licensed skydiver 27 / 28%
Coaching a licensed skydiver in Freefly techniques 13 / 14%
Coaching a licenced skydiver in Canopy techniques 14 / 15%
Coaching a licenced skydiver in Wingsuit techniques 12 / 12%
96 total votes
 
Premier WickedWingsuits  (D 30916)

Jan 28, 2012, 3:46 PM
Post #1 of 21 (1181 views)
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What logged jumps count towards the 15 "coaching jumps" required to renew a coach rating? Can't Post

 
I cannot find in writing anywhere the definition of a "coaching jump" as it is referenced in the IRM Coach Rating Course Renewal in Section 1.G.1.b which states:

"1.G.1.b having taught or assisted with the general portion of at least one first-jump course and made at least 15 coaching jumps in the last 12 months."

If anyone knows where it is clarified please point me to it. Meanwhile I am interested to know the general opinion or other thoughts on the subject.


Krip  (Student)

Jan 28, 2012, 4:52 PM
Post #2 of 21 (1146 views)
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Re: [WickedWingsuits] What logged jumps count towards the 15 "coaching jumps" required to renew a coach rating? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I cannot find in writing anywhere the definition of a "coaching jump" as it is referenced in the IRM Coach Rating Course Renewal in Section 1.G.1.b which states:

"1.G.1.b having taught or assisted with the general portion of at least one first-jump course and made at least 15 coaching jumps in the last 12 months."

If anyone knows where it is clarified please point me to it. Meanwhile I am interested to know the general opinion or other thoughts on the subject.

Hi

I'm confused by your profile you only have 200 jumps including ONE wingsult jump and your some kind of a wingsuit coach.Unimpressed


Premier WickedWingsuits  (D 30916)

Jan 28, 2012, 5:06 PM
Post #3 of 21 (1132 views)
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Re: [Krip] What logged jumps count towards the 15 "coaching jumps" required to renew a coach rating? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I cannot find in writing anywhere the definition of a "coaching jump" as it is referenced in the IRM Coach Rating Course Renewal in Section 1.G.1.b which states:

"1.G.1.b having taught or assisted with the general portion of at least one first-jump course and made at least 15 coaching jumps in the last 12 months."

If anyone knows where it is clarified please point me to it. Meanwhile I am interested to know the general opinion or other thoughts on the subject.

Hi

I'm confused by your profile you only have 200 jumps including ONE wingsult jump and your some kind of a wingsuit coach.Unimpressed

I have adjusted my profile. Maybe you could do the same?


(This post was edited by WickedWingsuits on Jan 28, 2012, 5:07 PM)


diablopilot  (D License)

Jan 28, 2012, 6:25 PM
Post #4 of 21 (1087 views)
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Re: [WickedWingsuits] What logged jumps count towards the 15 "coaching jumps" required to renew a coach rating? [In reply to] Can't Post

It's really no different than the requirements for other ratings. TI's must make a minimum number of Tandems, AFF instructors must make a minimum of AFF jumps. The common factor is that they are jumps which exercise the privileges of the rating. 15 coach jumps, i.e. unlicensed jumpers working towards the A license, or another way to look at it are jumps done under the apprenticeship of an instructor.


Premier WickedWingsuits  (D 30916)

Jan 28, 2012, 6:56 PM
Post #5 of 21 (1080 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] What logged jumps count towards the 15 "coaching jumps" required to renew a coach rating? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It's really no different than the requirements for other ratings. TI's must make a minimum number of Tandems, AFF instructors must make a minimum of AFF jumps. The common factor is that they are jumps which exercise the privileges of the rating. 15 coach jumps, i.e. unlicensed jumpers working towards the A license, or another way to look at it are jumps done under the apprenticeship of an instructor.

Ah, you are saying that a coached jump is under the apprenticeship of an instructor so therefore must apply only to unlicensed skydiver, right?

If that is the case I would ask what rating an experienced skydiver should ask for if seeking additonal education in canopy eduction, simply experience?


(This post was edited by WickedWingsuits on Jan 28, 2012, 6:57 PM)


BIGUN  (D 23385)

Jan 28, 2012, 8:42 PM
Post #6 of 21 (1038 views)
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Re: [WickedWingsuits] What logged jumps count towards the 15 "coaching jumps" required to renew a coach rating? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I cannot find in writing anywhere the definition of a "coaching jump" as it is referenced in the IRM Coach Rating Course Renewal in Section 1.G.1.b which states:

"1.G.1.b having taught or assisted with the general portion of at least one first-jump course and made at least 15 coaching jumps in the last 12 months."

If anyone knows where it is clarified please point me to it. Meanwhile I am interested to know the general opinion or other thoughts on the subject.

Generally.... any Coach jump with/while a student is in Cat G or H.


Krip  (Student)

Jan 28, 2012, 9:28 PM
Post #7 of 21 (1027 views)
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Re: [WickedWingsuits] What logged jumps count towards the 15 "coaching jumps" required to renew a coach rating? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
I cannot find in writing anywhere the definition of a "coaching jump" as it is referenced in the IRM Coach Rating Course Renewal in Section 1.G.1.b which states:

"1.G.1.b having taught or assisted with the general portion of at least one first-jump course and made at least 15 coaching jumps in the last 12 months."

If anyone knows where it is clarified please point me to it. Meanwhile I am interested to know the general opinion or other thoughts on the subject.

Hi

I'm confused by your profile you only have 200 jumps including ONE wingsult jump and your some kind of a wingsuit coach.Unimpressed

I have adjusted my profile. Maybe you could do the same?

Thanks for reminding me.Smile I couldAngelic But to bad so sad i don't want to.

Don't like it go whine to USPA, the mods or your ....Tongue


ufk22  (D 16168)

Jan 29, 2012, 7:54 AM
Post #8 of 21 (967 views)
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Re: [WickedWingsuits] What logged jumps count towards the 15 "coaching jumps" required to renew a coach rating? [In reply to] Can't Post

This, like a lot of things in skydiving, is a bit vague.
It is a judgement call by your S&TA or I-E.
Personally, I would include any "teaching" jumps with any unlicensed skydiver and "possibly" recurency jumps (if they included thorough E-P reviews and training, a dive plan to test skills, and a proper debrief, not just a 2 minute brief and a jump).
Free fly or wingsuit training for a licensed skydiver, no.
Canopy training, no, especially when USPA says that coaches can no longer teach advanced canopy skills to students.
But that's just me.
Whoever needs to sign off on your rating has the right to use (with justification) their own standard.


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Jan 29, 2012, 11:59 AM
Post #9 of 21 (932 views)
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Re: [WickedWingsuits] What logged jumps count towards the 15 "coaching jumps" required to renew a coach rating? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I cannot find in writing anywhere the definition of a "coaching jump" as it is referenced in the IRM Coach Rating Course Renewal in Section 1.G.1.b which states:

"1.G.1.b having taught or assisted with the general portion of at least one first-jump course and made at least 15 coaching jumps in the last 12 months."

If anyone knows where it is clarified please point me to it. Meanwhile I am interested to know the general opinion or other thoughts on the subject.

Again, look at the ISP and the SIM, the answer to your repeated question is there, since you wont listen to S&TA's or I/E's.

You can even look at the 4 page A License card. The Letter "C" is a USPA Coach.

Matt
S&TA, C-E, SL-I/E, T-I/E, AFF-I


theonlyski  (D License)

Jan 30, 2012, 6:16 AM
Post #10 of 21 (847 views)
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Re: [WickedWingsuits] What logged jumps count towards the 15 "coaching jumps" required to renew a coach rating? [In reply to] Can't Post

I asked the same thing:

Quote:
-----Original Message-----
From: Ski
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 6:33 PM
To: Jim Crouch
Subject: Re: Military Jumps

Jim,

I have another one.

The 2009-2010 IRM states that a coach must make at least 15 coaching jumps within the last 12 months.

What is the definition of 'coaching' jump? Must it be with an unlicensed student, or can it be on any jump with a jumper where we were coaching them on something? It is kind of vague.

His reply:

Quote:
The jumps do not have to be done with actual students, it can also be a jump done with a licensed skydiver.
Thanks,
Jim

Doesn't get any more 'horses mouth' than that!


(This post was edited by theonlyski on Jan 30, 2012, 6:18 AM)


diablopilot  (D License)

Jan 30, 2012, 6:58 AM
Post #11 of 21 (828 views)
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Re: [WickedWingsuits] What logged jumps count towards the 15 "coaching jumps" required to renew a coach rating? [In reply to] Can't Post

1st, I fail to understand your question(s).

2nd. It's pretty clear that the requirements to remain current are the jumps that require the privilege of the rating. I mean wingsuit jumps don't count towards maintaining an AFF rating, do they?


theonlyski  (D License)

Jan 30, 2012, 7:25 AM
Post #12 of 21 (811 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] What logged jumps count towards the 15 "coaching jumps" required to renew a coach rating? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
1st, I fail to understand your question(s).

How is it confusing?

In reply to:
2nd. It's pretty clear that the requirements to remain current are the jumps that require the privilege of the rating. I mean wingsuit jumps don't count towards maintaining an AFF rating, do they?

No, but a coach rating is COACHING people, not harness hold or tandem instructing. Jim Crouch even said that the coaching jumps need not be with unlicensed students. Do you not believe that wingsuit coaching is defined as coaching?

I think its VERY relevant and probably a great idea to have a coach rating for teaching wingsuiting. Proper gear checks, teaching techniques, debriefing methods...


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Jan 30, 2012, 7:49 AM
Post #13 of 21 (794 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] What logged jumps count towards the 15 "coaching jumps" required to renew a coach rating? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I asked the same thing:

Quote:
-----Original Message-----
From: Ski
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 6:33 PM
To: Jim Crouch
Subject: Re: Military Jumps

Jim,

I have another one.

The 2009-2010 IRM states that a coach must make at least 15 coaching jumps within the last 12 months.

What is the definition of 'coaching' jump? Must it be with an unlicensed student, or can it be on any jump with a jumper where we were coaching them on something? It is kind of vague.

His reply:

Quote:
The jumps do not have to be done with actual students, it can also be a jump done with a licensed skydiver.
Thanks,
Jim

Doesn't get any more 'horses mouth' than that!

Spelled out as Recurrency, in writing. Jim has acknowledged that when I asked him for clarification too.

Wing Suit Coaching is not the same as FJC Coaching, yes, there are some safety similarities, but it is still working with licensed, current jumpers moving to a discipline, much like VRW or RW. There are "Coaches" for that, they do not all have USPA Coach Ratings, they do not need them, they also do not try to count them. (Honestly most probably don't ask too, the local S&TA just signs off)

Matt


diablopilot  (D License)

Jan 30, 2012, 10:35 AM
Post #14 of 21 (749 views)
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Re: [matthewcline] What logged jumps count towards the 15 "coaching jumps" required to renew a coach rating? [In reply to] Can't Post

As much as I like him and what he does for this sport, I'll disagree with Jim on this one point.


missbrz  (B License)

Jan 30, 2012, 12:22 PM
Post #15 of 21 (726 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] What logged jumps count towards the 15 "coaching jumps" required to renew a coach rating? [In reply to] Can't Post

If you don't mind my asking, why? I can understand the argument against canopy, freefly or wingsuit coaching. But why not with licensed skydivers? If I do a jump with a freshly A licensed skydiver to work on his swoop and dock technique, does that not count as coaching just because he happened to be able to get a couple in before? Two swoop and docks does not make one proficient at it. He could still need a lot of work on them and I would basically be doing a Cat H jump with him just post A license. I consider those part of my Coach jump renewal requirements. I may not be signing anything & I may not get paid, but I sure did some coaching during those types of jumps.


Deisel  (D 31661)

Jan 30, 2012, 12:48 PM
Post #16 of 21 (719 views)
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Re: [missbrz] What logged jumps count towards the 15 "coaching jumps" required to renew a coach rating? [In reply to] Can't Post

+1 Coaching is coaching regardless of license or discipline. The USPA coach course evaluates individuals in belly RW skills. This is for the purpose of coaching in the belly RW discipline. But an experienced (insert discipline) jumper that holds a coach rating should absolutely get credit for teaching in any discipline they are qualified to teach. Yes, USPA is vague but the point is that coaches become better instructors through teaching. Students learn more from better instructors and we are all safer and more proficient in the end.


AndyMan  (D 25698)

Jan 30, 2012, 12:53 PM
Post #17 of 21 (716 views)
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Re: [WickedWingsuits] What logged jumps count towards the 15 "coaching jumps" required to renew a coach rating? [In reply to] Can't Post

I think the answer has to be ' only those jumps for which a coach rating is required'.

For an example of why, if you've had your coach rating for 5 years, but only done Wingsuit jumps - then you're entirely unqualified to teach the common parts of a First Jump Course, or teach a category G or H jump without retraining and supervision.

The purpose of being a "current" instructor is to maintain the skills required to use the rating.

If you're not teaching real students, you're not being staying current in the required skills.

_Am


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Jan 30, 2012, 2:00 PM
Post #18 of 21 (703 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] What logged jumps count towards the 15 "coaching jumps" required to renew a coach rating? [In reply to] Can't Post

On which point?

Jim's point any one can count as coached?

Matt


Premier skybytch  (D License)

Feb 3, 2012, 6:00 AM
Post #19 of 21 (598 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] What logged jumps count towards the 15 "coaching jumps" required to renew a coach rating? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
The jumps do not have to be done with actual students, it can also be a jump done with a licensed skydiver.

So if I had a current coach rating but needed three more "coach" jumps for my renewal, I could go do three jumps with my s/o, say I was "coaching" him and I'd be good to go. Sweet!

Could I have done the same thing to renew my AFF rating? If not, why not?


theonlyski  (D License)

Feb 3, 2012, 7:43 AM
Post #20 of 21 (581 views)
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Re: [skybytch] What logged jumps count towards the 15 "coaching jumps" required to renew a coach rating? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
The jumps do not have to be done with actual students, it can also be a jump done with a licensed skydiver.

So if I had a current coach rating but needed three more "coach" jumps for my renewal, I could go do three jumps with my s/o, say I was "coaching" him and I'd be good to go. Sweet!

Could I have done the same thing to renew my AFF rating? If not, why not?

Do whatever the fuck you want. I had the question, I asked USPA, that's the answer I got. Don't like it? Bring it up with someone that gives a shit, because today, I don't.


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Feb 3, 2012, 7:52 AM
Post #21 of 21 (575 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] What logged jumps count towards the 15 "coaching jumps" required to renew a coach rating? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Quote:
The jumps do not have to be done with actual students, it can also be a jump done with a licensed skydiver.

So if I had a current coach rating but needed three more "coach" jumps for my renewal, I could go do three jumps with my s/o, say I was "coaching" him and I'd be good to go. Sweet!

Could I have done the same thing to renew my AFF rating? If not, why not?

Do whatever the fuck you want. I had the question, I asked USPA, that's the answer I got. Don't like it? Bring it up with someone that gives a shit, because today, I don't.

Testy, testy.

One of them thar spring loaded Pilot chutes get ya? Laugh

The answer for the AFF question is: AFF instruction or AFF recurrency with a E or I/E.

Matt



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