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Start freeflying

 

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DarkDesigner  (A 116911)

Jan 27, 2012, 3:51 AM
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Start freeflying Can't Post

Helloo Everybody!

I've been wondering, what you guys is the best position (f.e. backfly or sitfly) to start in, when I'm getting into freeflying. I asked some freeflyers at my home dz, but they all say different things. So what's your opinion about this?

Cheers!
Peter


craigbey  (C 31991)

Jan 27, 2012, 7:02 AM
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Re: [DarkDesigner] Start freeflying [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
what you guys is the best position (f.e. backfly or sitfly) to start in, when I'm getting into freeflying

Whatever position your coach / instructor prescribes.

[opinion]If you spend any time in a tunnel, you should work on your back-flying first, but that may depend on the tunnel and who you're working with. It's a valuable skill either way.[/opinion]


(This post was edited by craigbey on Jan 27, 2012, 7:24 AM)


faulk04  (D 32457)

Jan 27, 2012, 9:02 AM
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Re: [DarkDesigner] Start freeflying [In reply to] Can't Post

I started out back flying, and then moved to sit flying. My coach said when YOU cork out during a sitfly you will probably go to your back so it would be a good thing if you could back fly.

probably will depend on who your coach is and how he learned


Tinley  (D 32321)

Jan 27, 2012, 9:36 AM
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Re: [DarkDesigner] Start freeflying [In reply to] Can't Post

The transition to a sit fly will be easier the more comfortable you are on your back. Plus, it teaches you to resort to your back when you cork.

I was advised by a lot of experienced flyers when learning but I also found this video to be helpful. The video refers to back flying as the ball position.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvjsDRrCox8

I started by doing some solos where I would hold a heading on my back then try and transition to a sit by arching my chest. Once I got this down, I sought out additional coaching.


hparrish  (D 25090)

Jan 27, 2012, 6:18 PM
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Re: [DarkDesigner] Start freeflying [In reply to] Can't Post

You MUST have 1,000,000 jumps before you start freeflying. Otherwise you may get better than your coaches too fast. Also you must have a freely friendly rig such as a Dolphin before you even consider learning in the tunnel. You also must do 1000 solo freely jumps so you don't track up jump run. It is illegal to start free flying with a group of friends until you have paid Olav Zipser for a freely license. Once you start free flying you will have to downsize to a 96 Square foot Velo, and a PD 103 Reserve, but first you will need to pay Jim Slaton for a swooping license. After exactly 99 Freefly jumps into your training it is mandatory to go to the next WR Camp and see how quickly you can make it to the base. You need to follow all these rules or you will die. Otherwise its just too dangerous and you need to stick to belly jumping.

JK................Honestly Tunnel is the best place to learn FF most cost effectively if you can get to a tunnel easily and cost effectively. If not save up for tunnel trips. If not then seek out someone at a DZ close to you who is reputable and doesn't give you all the original info directly above.

A good tunnel coach will start you on your back, then sit, then HD. A good tunnel coach will progress you as quickly as you can demonstrate that you are safe enough to progress. Back is a mandatory bail out position in the tunnel, that why they teach it.

Back flying really isn't necessary in the sky and is actually quite challenging with a rig on. If you are going to choose the skydiving route because a tunnel is not a feasible option; back flying is not necessary or mandatory. start with sit flying, then HD, and add back if you choose to.

Get a good coach if you want to save $$$ in the thousands by not learning bad hard to fix habits.

Good Luck..........And Most important of All.........HAve Fun.


craigbey  (C 31991)

Jan 29, 2012, 9:43 AM
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Re: [hparrish] Start freeflying [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
You MUST have 1,000,000 jumps before you start freeflying. Otherwise you may get better than your coaches too fast. Also you must have a freely friendly rig such as a Dolphin before you even consider learning in the tunnel. You also must do 1000 solo freely jumps so you don't track up jump run. It is illegal to start free flying with a group of friends until you have paid Olav Zipser for a freely license. Once you start free flying you will have to downsize to a 96 Square foot Velo, and a PD 103 Reserve, but first you will need to pay Jim Slaton for a swooping license. After exactly 99 Freefly jumps into your training it is mandatory to go to the next WR Camp and see how quickly you can make it to the base. You need to follow all these rules or you will die. Otherwise its just too dangerous and you need to stick to belly jumping.

Classic stuff and very funny. Too bad there was a time when people believed some of this stuff.

Backflying is certainly not a mandatory skill outside of the tunnel, but I see it as the far end of a range of flight when on your feet. It has been a useful way to stay with someone or quickly get back to them if there is a dramatic change in fall-rate.


(This post was edited by craigbey on Jan 29, 2012, 9:45 AM)


Dokeman  (D License)

Jan 29, 2012, 7:35 PM
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Re: [craigbey] Start freeflying [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
back flying really isn't necessary in the sky and is actually quite challenging with a rig on. If you are going to choose the skydiving route because a tunnel is not a feasible option; back flying is not necessary or mandatory. start with sit flying, then HD, and add back if you choose to.

thats just wrong!!! cork back to you belly once with some friends/coach above you and you will see the importance of back flying!


Squeak  (E 1313)

Jan 29, 2012, 10:10 PM
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Re: [Dokeman] Start freeflying [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
back flying really isn't necessary in the sky and is actually quite challenging with a rig on. If you are going to choose the skydiving route because a tunnel is not a feasible option; back flying is not necessary or mandatory. start with sit flying, then HD, and add back if you choose to.

thats just wrong!!! cork back to you belly once with some friends/coach above you and you will see the importance of back flying!
not to mention a lot of modern transistions incorporate back flying in them.


craigbey  (C 31991)

Jan 30, 2012, 10:13 AM
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Re: [Dokeman] Start freeflying [In reply to] Can't Post

Is there a reason why you replied to me?

I said...

Quote:
Backflying is certainly not a mandatory skill outside of the tunnel, but I see it as the far end of a range of flight when on your feet. It has been a useful way to stay with someone or quickly get back to them if there is a dramatic change in fall-rate.


dqpacker  (D 32043)

Jan 30, 2012, 10:39 AM
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Re: [craigbey] Start freeflying [In reply to] Can't Post

nice job on the quick edit of your post.

learn to backfly, at least as a neutral position. you don't need to be able to move around but you should be able to fall straight down on your back until you can recover to your sit.


craigbey  (C 31991)

Jan 30, 2012, 2:25 PM
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Re: [dqpacker] Start freeflying [In reply to] Can't Post

WTF? I edited my post long before you or Dokeman posted and it was merely for spellnig. I know how to backfly.

Dokeman made a mistake and quoted hparrish but replied to me. Learn how to read.


hparrish  (D 25090)

Jan 30, 2012, 10:12 PM
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Re: [Dokeman] Start freeflying [In reply to] Can't Post

I think learning to back fly in the sky is a waste of time and money. But have at it if you think its important.


dqpacker  (D 32043)

Jan 31, 2012, 3:59 AM
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Re: [craigbey] Start freeflying [In reply to] Can't Post

sorry about that, but you did spell, spelling wrong, and that's funny.

@hparrish- backflying is important. if someone's neutral position, or recovery position is their belly, 1. they will most likely not be asked to jump with a group again if they do it, and 2. you could kill yourself or someone else changing those speeds.
i don't think you have to be amazing but you should be able to fall straight down on your back.


hparrish  (D 25090)

Jan 31, 2012, 3:11 PM
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Re: [dqpacker] Start freeflying [In reply to] Can't Post

Your neutral position in Freeflying should be a sit. If you cant sitfly on level with others then you have no business jumping with other freeflyers.

Back flying is a very slow position compared to sit or HD. Yes you can use it to adjust fall rates with folks who are all over the sky.................but this should never be needed in a group that is supposed to be freeflying together. corking is corking be it on your belly or your back.

Difference of opinions. I agree that we disagree.


BAMatUF  (D 30640)

Feb 1, 2012, 6:13 AM
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Re: [hparrish] Start freeflying [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
corking is corking be it on your belly or your back.

Wut?


dqpacker  (D 32043)

Feb 1, 2012, 6:53 AM
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Re: [BAMatUF] Start freeflying [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
corking is corking be it on your belly or your back.

Wut?

i was thinking the same. totally wrong hparrish. belly and back have way different speeds. i can probably go faster on my back than in a sit.


hparrish  (D 25090)

Feb 2, 2012, 5:19 PM
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You guys have been flying in the tunnel too much. Back is not a mandatory skill for the sky. Tunnel yes......Sky not so much.


dqpacker  (D 32043)

Feb 2, 2012, 5:46 PM
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Re: [hparrish] Start freeflying [In reply to] Can't Post

don't have a single second in the tunnel.


BAMatUF  (D 30640)

Feb 3, 2012, 7:18 AM
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Re: [hparrish] Start freeflying [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
You guys have been flying in the tunnel too much. Back is not a mandatory skill for the sky. Tunnel yes......Sky not so much.

Backflying as a recovery position from head up and even head down in the sky IS mandatory... don't be corking to your belly on any freefly jump I'm on please. Drastic speed changes while people are on their head = potential serious injuries.


hparrish  (D 25090)

Feb 4, 2012, 2:19 AM
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Re: [BAMatUF] Start freeflying [In reply to] Can't Post

When have I ever said, going to your belly is advisable on a freefly jump?

I consider bailing from a sit or HD to your Back in the sky corking because unless its a purposeful manuever its going to be a fast decelleration. Seriously when does anyone who bails to their back from a sit or HD position not launch through or out of the formation?

There aren't many situations I ever use Back Flying in the sky for other than to make big movements to get someone who is quite a distance away, or when I'm chasing someone on a two way who is having fall rate issues, I'll pop to my Back and shoot up to them.

Even in the tunnel unless its a purposefull manuever folks pop up when they bail to their backs from a sit and especially from the HD position. They teach back as neutral position in the tunnel to prevent people from tracking into the walls and breaking body parts. Back Flying in the tunnel provides safety from horizontal movement. Thats why they teach it.

I think people just regurgitate what they hear when they learn. And a lot more folks are learning to freefly in the tunnel. Hence they think what applies to learning in the tunnel applies to the sky and thats not always the case.

Does it hurt to learn back flying in the sky??? Not at all.

Is it mandatory to safely learning how to freefly in the sky??? Not at all.


(This post was edited by hparrish on Feb 4, 2012, 2:20 AM)


hparrish  (D 25090)

Feb 4, 2012, 2:25 AM
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Re: [hparrish] Start freeflying [In reply to] Can't Post

One other point.

If you are learning how to sitfly in the sky and can't get into the position without corking to your back or belly.

Well that's what Solo's are for.

I think we are all saying the same basic things. I just think that bailing to your back is corking. where you guys dont.

If you want to learn how to sit, then learn how to sit.


(This post was edited by hparrish on Feb 4, 2012, 2:40 AM)


jephprospect  (Student)

Feb 7, 2012, 11:26 AM
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Re: [hparrish] Start freeflying [In reply to] Can't Post

I was backflying last weekend and my balls hurt. Like the wind was hitting them bad. You think this was body position or I just need a freefly suit? I was rockin jeans. I've done it before just fine but the last 3 times the wind his my balls too much so I switch back to belly.


hparrish  (D 25090)

Feb 7, 2012, 3:26 PM
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Re: [jephprospect] Start freeflying [In reply to] Can't Post

Sounds like you need a Girlfriend.


Premier skymama  (D 26699)
Moderator
Feb 7, 2012, 5:47 PM
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Re: [jephprospect] Start freeflying [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I've done it before just fine but the last 3 times the wind his my balls too much so I switch back to belly.

If you don't have tough enough balls for freeflying, you should probably just stick to belly flying. Wink


BAMatUF  (D 30640)

Feb 7, 2012, 7:55 PM
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Re: [hparrish] Start freeflying [In reply to] Can't Post

Harry, we're not talking about big formations. When you're STARTING FREEFLYING (Title of thread), you're probably not doing 20 ways that require you to never even think about corking.

When you START FREEFLYING, you're probably going to be with your local DZ buddy chasing each other around the sky hoping to not kill each other. When you have non-pro flyers flying together (probably not perfectly on level), it helps if you can safely cork to your back when you lose your sit for several reasons:

1. Maintain as close to the same speed as you were flying when you were upright. Back is faster than Belly. Period.

2. Being able to see people ABOVE you when you are in a slower body position is quite important.

Imagine this: Let's say there's a group of newish freeflyers are jumping together and things get a little off level. One guy crashes on top of another guy who just fell out of his sit and went to his back going ~140. Luckily he was on his back and could see the guy above him coming so he was able to brace for impact (or even get out of the way). That situation is much worse if the guy who lost his sit went to belly and slowed down to about ~120 and couldn't see shit above him.

3. The transition from back to sit is about 100x easier than a belly to sit transition (Not to mention the ridiculous speed you will need to catch your group after BELLYING out on a freefly formation)

We're not talking about being able to turn points on your back. That's just silly and only a handful of people can even do that.

It's just plain EASIER and SAFER to learn to sit with having some backflying skill. I feel like I'm in the twilight zone here even having to talk about this. There are only a few things that are taught differently in the tunnel than they are in the sky and the progression on learning how to sitfly is most certainly NOT one of them. Sure they're going to spend more time on backflying in the tunnel than in the sky. There's a much smaller margin for error in the tunnel than in the sky. But be my guest if you can just magically teach someone to sitfly who has no backflying ability. I'd love to learn that method but it doesn't make any sense to me.

So in essence, it IS mandatory at least by my rules to know how to use backflying as a recovery position for someone who is STARTING to freefly. When someone bellies out of a freefly jump it almost always means that's the end of being with your group for that jump. So have a fun breakoff with people flailing around above you.


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