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Canopy Collapse Vid

 

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kalaniwavo  (B License)

Jan 25, 2012, 10:10 AM
Post #1 of 38 (2969 views)
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Canopy Collapse Vid Can't Post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXA0u5ElcUo&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Ouch! That all happened pretty fast.
Winds were 12-15mph.


Abedy  (D 10153)

Jan 25, 2012, 10:38 AM
Post #2 of 38 (2920 views)
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Re: [kalaniwavo] Canopy Collapse Vid [In reply to] Can't Post

Made it clicky

Looks really bad. Hope he/she didn't sustain severe injuries and/or recovered fully?


taylor.freefall  (A 52570)

Jan 25, 2012, 10:38 AM
Post #3 of 38 (2919 views)
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Re: [kalaniwavo] Canopy Collapse Vid [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.youtube.com/...youtube_gdata_player
You just beat me to it! Dust devil??


(This post was edited by taylor.freefall on Jan 25, 2012, 10:41 AM)


yoink

Jan 25, 2012, 12:24 PM
Post #4 of 38 (2853 views)
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Re:Canopy Collapse Vid [In reply to] Can't Post

Ow. That looked brutal.

Great example of why jumping in winds, even if they're steady, can up your risk significantly.


kalaniwavo  (B License)

Jan 25, 2012, 12:58 PM
Post #5 of 38 (2797 views)
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Re: [taylor.freefall] Canopy Collapse Vid [In reply to] Can't Post

I shouldv'e included the whole story. Here's a link. I'll try and make it a "clicky"

http://damontucker.com/...oor-circle-agreement


Skyper

Jan 25, 2012, 1:20 PM
Post #6 of 38 (2765 views)
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Re: [kalaniwavo] Canopy Collapse Vid [In reply to] Can't Post

Does someone know what canopy/WL she had and the actual hight of those trees?

The actual wind-speeds (and wind-gusts) for that day would also be helpful.

thanks!


(This post was edited by Skyper on Jan 25, 2012, 1:24 PM)


airtwardo  (D License)

Jan 25, 2012, 1:25 PM
Post #7 of 38 (2749 views)
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Re: [kalaniwavo] Canopy Collapse Vid [In reply to] Can't Post

There is a comment at the end of the article you linked regarding doing something about the trees...

At first look that's what I thought caused it, but from the video it appears as if the winds are coming from the right of that view to the left. that's the way the kited canopy is flying and that's the way she was turning into when the collapse occurred.

I'm wondering if in fact that is the general consensus...that those trees caused a rotor that the canopy flew through during that last turn?

It's (as always) hard to tell scale from the video...how far away from the visible tree-line was she when she made what would appear to be a turn 'into' the wind?

Thanks for posting this, it does show how fast it can happen and the results. Broken neck, Femured leg X2, ribs & lung...she is lucky to be alive.

Hope she comes through this okay.


(This post was edited by airtwardo on Jan 25, 2012, 1:27 PM)


yoink

Jan 25, 2012, 1:29 PM
Post #8 of 38 (2737 views)
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Re: [kalaniwavo] Canopy Collapse Vid [In reply to] Can't Post

People have to remember that in windy conditions the area of turbulence from an object can extend 10 times the objects height.

Just landing a bit aways from objects isn't good enough.


Skyper

Jan 25, 2012, 1:47 PM
Post #9 of 38 (2711 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Canopy Collapse Vid [In reply to] Can't Post

the turbulence is maybe caused by the clouds's shadows on the ground or/and by the differences in the ground temperatures due to different types of the ground... in the weather conditions where that particular type of cloud is developed it is known that vertical air movements can be quite intense.

edit: if you watch video carefully you can see that on the left side of the camera guy's canopy - the sky is almost totally covered with clouds, while on his right side there are just a few scattered clouds which means that the landing field is exactly on that "border" between cloudy area and relatively clear sky... this enforces my belief that the significant differences in vertical airspeed were present exactly around the spot where this incident took place.


(This post was edited by Skyper on Jan 25, 2012, 1:58 PM)


taylor.freefall  (A 52570)

Jan 25, 2012, 2:03 PM
Post #10 of 38 (2669 views)
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Re: [kalaniwavo] Canopy Collapse Vid [In reply to] Can't Post

It's shocking how quickly that happened. It's certainly opened my eyes as to how much turbulence can affect a canopy.
As a learner they told us to avoid dust devils and about the turbulence that can be created by buildings etc, but I thought if it ever affected me it would probably just buffet me around a little bit but mostly be controllable. That thing just collapsed in a second or two!!
I hope the young lady concerned recovers fully.


PiLFy  (A License)

Jan 25, 2012, 2:03 PM
Post #11 of 38 (2665 views)
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Re: [kalaniwavo] Canopy Collapse Vid [In reply to] Can't Post

OK, that just freaked me out. I won't jump when it's gusting, but have jumped in higher winds than you say. Do you happen to know how high they were gusting? You can hear the wind gust that collapsed her canopy.

Edit to add: Or, was it more the low rainclouds bringing funky thermals as Skyper just said?


(This post was edited by PiLFy on Jan 25, 2012, 2:06 PM)


Skyper

Jan 25, 2012, 2:07 PM
Post #12 of 38 (2658 views)
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Re: [PiLFy] Canopy Collapse Vid [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
OK, that just freaked me out. I won't jump when it's gusting, but have jumped in higher winds than you say. Do you happen to know how high they were gusting? You can hear the wind gust that collapsed her canopy.


Pilfy, imho that what you hear is the sound of the collapsing/recovering canopy.


faulk04  (D 32457)

Jan 25, 2012, 2:11 PM
Post #13 of 38 (2646 views)
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Re: [Skyper] Canopy Collapse Vid [In reply to] Can't Post

video is now private? everyone else get that?


PiLFy  (A License)

Jan 25, 2012, 2:12 PM
Post #14 of 38 (2643 views)
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Re: [Skyper] Canopy Collapse Vid [In reply to] Can't Post

Damnit. Someone just removed the video from Youtube. How are others supposed to learn from this if it's removed???

I saw the weather you posted about. I could actually hear the wind gust in the guy's video mic. THEN, her canopy collapses a second later. I'm just trying to learn where the line is, so I don't go anywhere near it...


pchapman  (D 1014)

Jan 25, 2012, 2:23 PM
Post #15 of 38 (2613 views)
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Re: [kalaniwavo] Canopy Collapse Vid [In reply to] Can't Post

Anyone download a copy of the video before it went private and want to make it available?


airtwardo  (D License)

Jan 25, 2012, 2:33 PM
Post #16 of 38 (2588 views)
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Re: [Skyper] Canopy Collapse Vid [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
the turbulence is maybe caused by the clouds's shadows on the ground or/and by the differences in the ground temperatures due to different types of the ground... in the weather conditions where that particular type of cloud is developed it is known that vertical air movements can be quite intense.

edit: if you watch video carefully you can see that on the left side of the camera guy's canopy - the sky is almost totally covered with clouds, while on his right side there are just a few scattered clouds which means that the landing field is exactly on that "border" between cloudy area and relatively clear sky... this enforces my belief that the significant differences in vertical airspeed were present exactly around the spot where this incident took place.

Interesting take, I've never experienced anything like that over grass but I guess anything is possible.

The 'problem' is that no one else (it seems) was affected by vertical currents landing in & away from the tree-line...could be luck, but I would think the area in it's entirety would be subject to the currents you describe.

Considering the altitude it happened in relation to the height of the tree-line, my initial impression was that the horizontal wind stream was the most likely factor, but again, seems a bit far from the trees.

I've flown through rolling rotors created by obstacles such as depicted in the video, but the winds were higher than the 12-15 quoted...and the LZ was closer TO the obstacles.


FWIW~ putting more distance between your intended landing area and any obstacles when it's windy is always advisable.

I would have done the 90 into the wind higher and used a stall turn from 1/2 bakes, but that's on MY canopy, might not have been practical/possible on a smaller higher loaded wing.


Skyper

Jan 25, 2012, 2:46 PM
Post #17 of 38 (2573 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Canopy Collapse Vid [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
There is a comment at the end of the article you linked regarding doing something about the trees...

At first look that's what I thought caused it, but from the video it appears as if the winds are coming from the right of that view to the left. that's the way the kited canopy is flying and that's the way she was turning into when the collapse occurred.

I'm wondering if in fact that is the general consensus...that those trees caused a rotor that the canopy flew through during that last turn?

It's (as always) hard to tell scale from the video...how far away from the visible tree-line was she when she made what would appear to be a turn 'into' the wind?

Thanks for posting this, it does show how fast it can happen and the results. Broken neck, Femured leg X2, ribs & lung...she is lucky to be alive.

Hope she comes through this okay.

Twardo, in this link (image C) you can see the "turbulence area" (blue arrows) around the trees when the wind blows "from the side". So it can be the case that the trees played a role in this incident even though the wind was not coming from that direction. On the other side this image applies to "persisting forest" so... it is the question if those few trees around DZ can influence the side-wind in the same way...
http://www.fao.org/.../J0628E/J0628E47.gif

edit: sorry that I couldn't find any better image, but the point is that the wind creates a rotors not only "behind" the obstacles but also on the side of the obstacles. Maybe is this side rotor in combination with thermal convection (vertical winds) potential killer.

thank you for advice on approaching this kind of things on windy day.


(This post was edited by Skyper on Jan 25, 2012, 2:57 PM)


airtwardo  (D License)

Jan 25, 2012, 3:00 PM
Post #18 of 38 (2556 views)
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Re: [Skyper] Canopy Collapse Vid [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
There is a comment at the end of the article you linked regarding doing something about the trees...

At first look that's what I thought caused it, but from the video it appears as if the winds are coming from the right of that view to the left. that's the way the kited canopy is flying and that's the way she was turning into when the collapse occurred.

I'm wondering if in fact that is the general consensus...that those trees caused a rotor that the canopy flew through during that last turn?

It's (as always) hard to tell scale from the video...how far away from the visible tree-line was she when she made what would appear to be a turn 'into' the wind?

Thanks for posting this, it does show how fast it can happen and the results. Broken neck, Femured leg X2, ribs & lung...she is lucky to be alive.

Hope she comes through this okay.

Twardo, in this link (image C) you can see the "turbulence area" (blue arrows) around the trees when the wind blows "from the side". So it can be the case that the trees played a role in this incident even though the wind was not coming from that direction. On the other side this image applies to "persisting forest" so... it is the question if those few trees around DZ can influence the side-wind in the same way...
http://www.fao.org/.../J0628E/J0628E47.gif

Okay.....THAT makes it a lot clearer.

That's the handicap just watching the vid, and not being familiar all the conditions at/with the actual LZ.

So what you're saying is this was kind of 'the perfect storm' situation, with several negative factors coming into play at once.

THAT'S kinda scary.


kalaniwavo  (B License)

Jan 25, 2012, 6:49 PM
Post #19 of 38 (2444 views)
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Re: [PiLFy] Canopy Collapse Vid [In reply to] Can't Post

sorry to see another mishap vid go black. I know everyone has there reasons for keeping them private but we could really learn alot from these.

This was the best video I had ever seen of a low stall and I think with some discussion on here it could have opened up some eyes about how stalls occur, how violent they can be and the effects of obstacles


danielcroft  (D 31103)

Jan 25, 2012, 7:22 PM
Post #20 of 38 (2421 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Canopy Collapse Vid [In reply to] Can't Post

I caught that video on SoFPiDaRF before it was taken down.

The person apparently suffered pretty serious injuries, I hope they make a full recovery.

To me it looked as though the video was shot on a very high wind day. The videographer is kiting their canopy with no trouble and even used their rear risers to stall the canopy to the ground.

My impression of the incident was that the gusty winds (you could hear gusts on the video pretty clearly) carried turbulence which caused a +75% frontal collapse of the right side of the person's canopy (which appeared to me to be semi-elliptical). It took a second for the canopy to re-inflate but when it did, it wasn't fully inflated at first which resulted in an off heading spiral into the ground. The person appeared to impact almost horizontally. Someone asked for 911 to be called straight away.

Just because we could say that the wind was the likely culprit in this case, or that there are some trees off camera that were contributing turbulence doesn't mean that we can just sit back and say job done. We're participating in a sport where simple decisions can result in death and even when we do everything right, shit can still go wrong.

Best wishes to jumper and family.


Pattybeeny  (D 30938)

Jan 27, 2012, 8:52 AM
Post #21 of 38 (2150 views)
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Re: [taylor.freefall] Canopy Collapse Vid [In reply to] Can't Post

seems the video has been removed and set to private :-(


PiLFy  (A License)

Jan 27, 2012, 12:54 PM
Post #22 of 38 (2090 views)
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Re: [Pattybeeny] Canopy Collapse Vid [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
seems the video has been removed and set to private :-(

& now a few more newer jumpers may make the same mistake...Unsure Pulling vids like that isn't giving back to the sport.


jumpsalot-2  (D 33093)

Jan 27, 2012, 1:17 PM
Post #23 of 38 (2073 views)
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Re: [PiLFy] Canopy Collapse Vid [In reply to] Can't Post

Even though the vid has been removed, a picture just before impact is shown in an article clicky in post five above. The jumper is clearly going to drive straight into the ground from a pretty good height. Looks like 50 ft plus straight down. Some recovery to level flight maybe, but doubtful.


PiLFy  (A License)

Jan 27, 2012, 1:39 PM
Post #24 of 38 (2057 views)
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Re: [jumpsalot-2] Canopy Collapse Vid [In reply to] Can't Post

??? Did you see the vid? I watched it a few times before someone deprived us of its teaching value. The pic only shows us someone got hurt. The vid showed turbulence coming from a new (for me) threat angle: sideways off a row of trees. At least, I think that's what happened to her. Further analysis by more experienced eyes would yield a valuable lesson or three from this vid. Otherwise, others may also get hurt for want of its teachings... Not Cool.


jumpsalot-2  (D 33093)

Jan 27, 2012, 1:50 PM
Post #25 of 38 (2050 views)
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Re: [PiLFy] Canopy Collapse Vid [In reply to] Can't Post

I totally agree ( on using the vid to show others the danger of turbulance ) Keeping well away from objects on the ground is a good start to avoiding this type of turbulance.


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