Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
Locking Stoes, why do they come in 3?

 


danielshadwick  (C License)

Jan 17, 2012, 1:40 AM
Post #1 of 22 (1531 views)
Shortcut
Locking Stoes, why do they come in 3? Can't Post

Hey,
About a year ago a rigger put some of the small tube stoes on my D-bag and left the bigger sized rubber band on. This weekend one of the tube stoes finally broke. I ordered Some new ones and was surprised to find only three of the larger locking stoes.

I typically use 4 of the larger rubber bands as locking stoes. Why would it be any different with tube stoes???

I thought maybe I'd just use the smaller tube stoes, but it only came with 7. wtf?

Do I only use 2 locking stoes and leave the other 2 eyelets unused?


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Jan 17, 2012, 4:57 AM
Post #2 of 22 (1481 views)
Shortcut
Re: [danielshadwick] Locking Stoes, why do they come in 3? [In reply to] Can't Post

No, do not use only two and leave two blank.

Just out of curiosity, why do you use tube stoes instead of rubber bands?


dqpacker  (D 32043)

Jan 17, 2012, 6:00 AM
Post #3 of 22 (1445 views)
Shortcut
Re: [danielshadwick] Locking Stoes, why do they come in 3? [In reply to] Can't Post

can't believe people still use those.


JohnRich  (D License)

Jan 17, 2012, 7:52 AM
Post #4 of 22 (1398 views)
Shortcut
Re: [danielshadwick] Locking Stoes, why do they come in 3? [In reply to] Can't Post

Buy another pack of tube stows.
Or use regular rubber bands.
Or learn to make your own tube stows.
It's spelled "stows", with a "w".
You should have had sufficient spares on-hand *before* they broke.


(This post was edited by JohnRich on Jan 17, 2012, 7:55 AM)


sundevil777  (D License)

Jan 17, 2012, 9:29 AM
Post #5 of 22 (1351 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dqpacker] Locking Stoes, why do they come in 3? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
can't believe people still use those.

I use them for locking stows because rubber bands break too easily. I would rather face the risk of a tube stow not breaking (extremely unlikely scenario) than a locking stow breaking when I don't want it to (very likely scenario). I make my own tube stows, glue isn't needed.


(This post was edited by sundevil777 on Jan 17, 2012, 9:31 AM)


eetula  (C License)

Jan 17, 2012, 9:38 AM
Post #6 of 22 (1344 views)
Shortcut
Re: [JohnRich] Locking Stoes, why do they come in 3? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It's spelled "stows", with a "w".
You should have had sufficient spares on-hand *before* they broke.

TUBE STOES Wink


JohnRich  (D License)

Jan 17, 2012, 4:08 PM
Post #7 of 22 (1248 views)
Shortcut
Re: [eetula] Locking Stoes, why do they come in 3? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
It's spelled "stows", with a "w".
You should have had sufficient spares on-hand *before* they broke.

TUBE STOES Wink

The company doesn't know how to spell either.
It sounds like a pair of tube socks that keep your toes warm.

The original poster also spelled it wrong that way in several references to just stows in general, like "locking stoes", that weren't part of the product name.


(This post was edited by JohnRich on Jan 17, 2012, 4:12 PM)


SimonBones  (D 28573)

Jan 17, 2012, 4:38 PM
Post #8 of 22 (1230 views)
Shortcut
Re: [danielshadwick] Locking Stoes, why do they come in 3? [In reply to] Can't Post

Love tube stoes, been using them for over 8 years. My GF and I have over 5,500 jumps using them and loving them on multiple rigs. Most reserve bags also use a rounded elastic bungee more similar to a tube stoe than a flat rubber band for a locking stow. It's just better IMHO.

That said, I've always warned against people mix and matching. If you're going to use tube stoes, I tell people to use ALL tube stoes, or else use all rubber bands. Don't ever double wrap the tube stoes, this blocks their rolling and you lose the benefit of tube stoes preventing the racetrack effect like flat rubber bands cause.

Sure you COULD mix and match if all your locking were one type and the other stows were the other, but then you'll start messing with different stow tensions. Better know what you're doing. I've seen people get lots of line twists and subsequent cutaways from playing the mix and match game.

I usually buy several packs of two sizes. The next size up will be the same size as the locking stoes of the smaller bag. After I get them I separate them into two bags, regular and locking stoes. The locking stoes of the bigger bag can be tossed or used as cock rings, whatever tickles your fancy.

As far as spelling goes, everyone knows that "Tube Stoes" was meant to be Ebonics for "Tube Stores". They store your lines and they're just plain gangsta.


shropshire  (C License)

Jan 17, 2012, 5:44 PM
Post #9 of 22 (1192 views)
Shortcut
Re: [sundevil777] Locking Stoes, why do they come in 3? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
can't believe people still use those.

I use them for locking stows because rubber bands break too easily. I would rather face the risk of a tube stow not breaking (extremely unlikely scenario) than a locking stow breaking when I don't want it to (very likely scenario). I make my own tube stows, glue isn't needed.

Hi could you please explain this in more detail? How do you make Tube Stows? and how do they work without glue?

Cheers


theonlyski  (D License)

Jan 17, 2012, 6:30 PM
Post #10 of 22 (1162 views)
Shortcut
Re: [shropshire] Locking Stoes, why do they come in 3? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Hi could you please explain this in more detail? How do you make Tube Stows? and how do they work without glue?

One way could be you double the tube over, tie a knot and larks head that to the stow attachment on the bag. Nothing special but should do the job fine.


pchapman  (D 1014)

Jan 17, 2012, 7:04 PM
Post #11 of 22 (1143 views)
Shortcut
Re: [shropshire] Locking Stoes, why do they come in 3? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
How do you make Tube Stows? and how do they work without glue?

There were threads way back about how to make your own tube stows. Apparently the silicone tubing is grippy enough and tight enough that if one end is wrapped over the other, it'll hold. At least that's what I recall. I never tried to figure out where to find the right tubing though.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Jan 17, 2012, 7:08 PM
Post #12 of 22 (1139 views)
Shortcut
Re: [danielshadwick] Locking Stoes, why do they come in 3? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I ordered Some new ones and was surprised to find only three of the larger locking stoes.

Most main bags have either 2 or 3 bag locking stows and the larger ones are to be used for these. Your first 2 or 3 stows are made where the lines are cascaded making each bite twice the size of the later stows.

Sparky


councilman24  (D 8631)

Jan 17, 2012, 7:15 PM
Post #13 of 22 (1137 views)
Shortcut
Re: [danielshadwick] Locking Stoes, why do they come in 3? [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't use tube stoes (stows) but by the time you get to the fourth stow (or even third stow) your past the cascades in your lines. You now are stowing HALF the number (bulk) of lines and probably will need the smaller stow (or rubber band) to hold them tight.

I usually only use large rubber bands for the first two locking stows and then go to small bands. But I don't make a big deal out of it. I use rubber bands unless required by a manual to use tube stoes. There is one pilot rig manual that requires tube stoes for the locking stows on a diaper.Mad

BTW it's not the companies fault their standard pack doesn't include what you want. Read the fine print.

And as said before you need to use all FOUR locking stows.


sundevil777  (D License)

Jan 17, 2012, 7:37 PM
Post #14 of 22 (1128 views)
Shortcut
Re: [shropshire] Locking Stoes, why do they come in 3? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
can't believe people still use those.

I use them for locking stows because rubber bands break too easily. I would rather face the risk of a tube stow not breaking (extremely unlikely scenario) than a locking stow breaking when I don't want it to (very likely scenario). I make my own tube stows, glue isn't needed.

Hi could you please explain this in more detail? How do you make Tube Stows? and how do they work without glue?

Cheers

Get the raw material, fishermen use it for something, or get it from medical use sources. I've also seen it at some home improvement stores. Use a pair of needle-nose pliers to turn one end over about 5mm (turn it inside-out). Insert the closed pliers into the other end and open the pliers to expand the tubing. Now take a pair of hemostats or similar instrument to grab the turned over end of the tubing and insert it into the opened end. Carefully slide the tubing off as you allow the pliers to close and you're done. No need to glue anything, just put the joined end at the base of the larks head knot when you install the tubestow.

I've used my home made versions for about 20 years I think, no problems.


sundevil777  (D License)

Jan 17, 2012, 7:47 PM
Post #15 of 22 (1119 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SimonBones] Locking Stoes, why do they come in 3? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I've always warned against people mix and matching. If you're going to use tube stoes, I tell people to use ALL tube stoes, or else use all rubber bands. Don't ever double wrap the tube stoes, this blocks their rolling and you lose the benefit of tube stoes preventing the racetrack effect like flat rubber bands cause.

Sure you COULD mix and match if all your locking were one type and the other stows were the other, but then you'll start messing with different stow tensions. Better know what you're doing. I've seen people get lots of line twists and subsequent cutaways from playing the mix and match game.

I've not had a problem with just using tube stows for the locking stows, regular bands for the others. I find the tiny tube stows (really tiny ones needed for regular non-locking stows) are difficult to use.


shropshire  (C License)

Jan 18, 2012, 1:07 AM
Post #16 of 22 (1072 views)
Shortcut
Re: [sundevil777] Locking Stoes, why do they come in 3? [In reply to] Can't Post

Many thanks


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Jan 18, 2012, 7:58 AM
Post #17 of 22 (1016 views)
Shortcut
Re: [shropshire] Locking Stoes, why do they come in 3? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
can't believe people still use those.

I use them for locking stows because rubber bands break too easily. I would rather face the risk of a tube stow not breaking (extremely unlikely scenario) than a locking stow breaking when I don't want it to (very likely scenario). I make my own tube stows, glue isn't needed.

Hi could you please explain this in more detail? How do you make Tube Stows? and how do they work without glue?

Cheers
How do you make Tube Stows?


SimonBones  (D 28573)

Jan 18, 2012, 10:02 AM
Post #18 of 22 (975 views)
Shortcut
Re: [sundevil777] Locking Stoes, why do they come in 3? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I've always warned against people mix and matching. If you're going to use tube stoes, I tell people to use ALL tube stoes, or else use all rubber bands. Don't ever double wrap the tube stoes, this blocks their rolling and you lose the benefit of tube stoes preventing the racetrack effect like flat rubber bands cause.

Sure you COULD mix and match if all your locking were one type and the other stows were the other, but then you'll start messing with different stow tensions. Better know what you're doing. I've seen people get lots of line twists and subsequent cutaways from playing the mix and match game.

I've not had a problem with just using tube stows for the locking stows, regular bands for the others. I find the tiny tube stows (really tiny ones needed for regular non-locking stows) are difficult to use.

It can work absolutely if you know what you're doing and can keep proper tensions. I worry about someone screwing up the stow tensions and putting themselves in a bad spot because they wanted to mix and match. Like I said, as long as you really know what you're doing. I wouldn't recommend mix and matching to a novice. I personally like the the tiny tube stoes for the rest of the stows. They keep great tension and last a ridiculously long time.

I've redone some pull tests recently with a spring scale to test the force required to break a tube stoe. New tube stoes that have never been used tend to fail at the overlap, but not actually breaking, just slipping out entirely from the overlap. The numbers I got depended on two scenarios. If the overlap part is being stretched parallel to the spring scale, the break force is about 25-30lbs. If the overlap is perpendicular to the spring scale, it can take 40-50lbs. Just figured I'd share my numbers. Considering the drag force if a pilot chute at terminal velocity, I've long since laid to rest the old myth that "tube stoes won't break".

My spring scale only goes up to 55lbs, I've never found a flat rubber band (that had never been used) to fail at a force my spring scale can measure. My conclusion, it takes a LOT more force to break a new flat rubber band than it does a new tube stoe.


sundevil777  (D License)

Jan 18, 2012, 12:24 PM
Post #19 of 22 (948 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SimonBones] Locking Stoes, why do they come in 3? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It can work absolutely if you know what you're doing and can keep proper tensions. I worry about someone screwing up the stow tensions and putting themselves in a bad spot because they wanted to mix and match. Like I said, as long as you really know what you're doing.

I absolutely am guilty of having lots of different tension on my non locking stows. I've never noticed any problem.

In reply to:
If the overlap part is being stretched parallel to the spring scale, the break force is about 25-30lbs. If the overlap is perpendicular to the spring scale, it can take 40-50lbs.

The overlap/joint of the tube stow should be installed in the base of the larkshead, so that it doesn't get the stress. I wonder if it is common for people to do otherwise, and if this might contribute to supposed baglocks involving tube stows.


SRI85  (D License)

Jan 18, 2012, 12:31 PM
Post #20 of 22 (942 views)
Shortcut
Re: [danielshadwick] Locking Stoes, why do they come in 3? [In reply to] Can't Post

I have a 4 eyed bag as well. I use all tube stows. The first 3 for the locking stows are the larger ones and the fourth, is a small tube stow, as well as the rest of stows on the bag.

By the time i get to my 4th locking stow, its past where the lines cascade, so the smaller tube stow there gives it better tension. When i had a large tube stow there, it was lacking proper tension.


shropshire  (C License)

Jan 18, 2012, 12:37 PM
Post #21 of 22 (938 views)
Shortcut
Re: [phoenixlpr] Locking Stoes, why do they come in 3? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
can't believe people still use those.

I use them for locking stows because rubber bands break too easily. I would rather face the risk of a tube stow not breaking (extremely unlikely scenario) than a locking stow breaking when I don't want it to (very likely scenario). I make my own tube stows, glue isn't needed.

Hi could you please explain this in more detail? How do you make Tube Stows? and how do they work without glue?

Cheers
How do you make Tube Stows?


Dead obvious (when you see it in pics) Blush

Thanks


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Jan 18, 2012, 1:19 PM
Post #22 of 22 (925 views)
Shortcut
Re: [shropshire] Locking Stoes, why do they come in 3? [In reply to] Can't Post

In 30 years of jumping, testing and rigging I have never seen or heard of bag lock caused by stow bands of any type. They are caused by the bridle or a line group looping around a line stow bite. With a hand deploy PC excreting over 100 pounds of drag it will break any stow band in use today.

As far as tension goes there is no need for any tension on the lines. The stows are there to stage the deployment not to meter it. Your reserve uses a side pocket to do the same job.

Sparky

This is a bag I made with just 2 locking stows, tube type, and made over 1,000 jumps with it.

http://i397.photobucket.com/...Skydiving/D-bag1.jpg

http://i397.photobucket.com/...Skydiving/D-bag2.jpg

http://i397.photobucket.com/...Skydiving/D-bag3.jpg

http://i397.photobucket.com/...Skydiving/D-bag4.jpg



Forums : Skydiving : Gear and Rigging

 


Search for (options)