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Emergency exit for first hop and pop

 

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scottd818  (C 41314)

Jan 15, 2012, 12:28 PM
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Emergency exit for first hop and pop Can't Post

I finally did my first Hop n Pop. I had been dreading it. I still deploy at 4500 so i had never been that low. Well we were on our way to 12000 when the pilot looked back and said the turbo just went out on the 206 and it was time to get out. That sure made my heart start pounding. So out i went, we were at 3500. When that door opened man did the ground look close. That was one hell of a good rush doin my first Hop n Pop under emergency conditions. It was a great learning experience and i got to check off my hop n pop on my proficency card. And on top of this my friend was also in the plane on his very first solo jump off AFF. Im sure it was an even bigger rush for him. Great times! Blue skies!


Psychonaut  (C License)

Jan 15, 2012, 12:30 PM
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Re: [scottd818] Emergency exit for first hop and pop [In reply to] Can't Post

Do a few more whenever you have the opportunity to getting out at 3500, you'll become more comfortable and realize you still have plenty of time as long as you're relaxed and don't rush yourself.


scottd818  (C 41314)

Jan 15, 2012, 12:34 PM
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Re: [Psychonaut] Emergency exit for first hop and pop [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Do a few more whenever you have the opportunity to getting out at 3500, you'll become more comfortable and realize you still have plenty of time as long as you're relaxed and don't rush yourself.

I will be and i look forward to them. i got stable right away and deployed in 5 seconds. i have a altitrack and it said i was deployed at 3060.


grimmie  (D 18890)

Jan 15, 2012, 1:19 PM
Post #4 of 36 (2410 views)
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Re: [scottd818] Emergency exit for first hop and pop [In reply to] Can't Post

BeerSmile


sundevil777  (D License)

Jan 15, 2012, 2:20 PM
Post #5 of 36 (2372 views)
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Re: [scottd818] Emergency exit for first hop and pop [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
my first Hop n Pop under emergency conditions

Losing the turbocharger just means the engine can't make as much power as normal, but it is not an emergency.


oldwomanc6

Jan 15, 2012, 2:41 PM
Post #6 of 36 (2346 views)
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Re: [sundevil777] Emergency exit for first hop and pop [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
my first Hop n Pop under emergency conditions

Losing the turbocharger just means the engine can't make as much power as normal, but it is not an emergency.

Good point! If the pilot looks back and says "Get out, NOW!" that is an emergency. If the pilot looks back and says "I'm not going higher, so you might as well get out" , that is not an emergency.


loch1957

Jan 15, 2012, 4:44 PM
Post #7 of 36 (2287 views)
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Re: [oldwomanc6] Emergency exit for first hop and pop [In reply to] Can't Post

I saw the altitude and said shoot thats no biggie. Static Line training has a few advantages. Now jumping from 13,500 seems a lot spookier.


Squeak  (E 1313)

Jan 15, 2012, 5:54 PM
Post #8 of 36 (2236 views)
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Re: [scottd818] Emergency exit for first hop and pop [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I finally did my first Hop n Pop. I had been dreading it. I still deploy at 4500 so i had never been that low. Well we were on our way to 12000 when the pilot looked back and said the turbo just went out on the 206 and it was time to get out. That sure made my heart start pounding. So out i went, we were at 3500. When that door opened man did the ground look close. That was one hell of a good rush doin my first Hop n Pop under emergency conditions. It was a great learning experience and i got to check off my hop n pop on my proficency card. And on top of this my friend was also in the plane on his very first solo jump off AFF. Im sure it was an even bigger rush for him. Great times! Blue skies!
Wow HnP aren't part of the AFF table there?
They are here, 9 stages to AFF and stage 9 is HnPs


Bertt  (D 99999)

Jan 15, 2012, 5:59 PM
Post #9 of 36 (2231 views)
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Re: [sundevil777] Emergency exit for first hop and pop [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.ntsb.gov/...0608X00756&key=1

Turbocharger failure can be an emergency. Above is one example.
To the OP: good job getting out of a not-so-perfectly good airplane.


sacex250

Jan 15, 2012, 6:24 PM
Post #10 of 36 (2213 views)
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Re: [scottd818] Emergency exit for first hop and pop [In reply to] Can't Post

What? The pilot never filled you in afterwards that it was a normally-aspirated 206 and that you'd just been had?

I guess they'll tell you in a week or two when everyone needs a good laugh.


oozzee  (D License)

Jan 15, 2012, 10:26 PM
Post #11 of 36 (2093 views)
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Re: [sacex250] Emergency exit for first hop and pop [In reply to] Can't Post

real or imagined....that was an emergency exit..good job..


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Jan 16, 2012, 12:05 AM
Post #12 of 36 (2062 views)
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Re: [scottd818] Emergency exit for first hop and pop [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
i got stable right away and deployed in 5 seconds. i have a altitrack and it said i was deployed at 3060.

First, good job!

Second, excellent job on being able to exit stable.
That is a very key, extremely key point for low-altitude jumps.


For the youngsters:
This is why we have the low altitude exits in the A-license requirements...prepping you for low-altitude emergency exits.

The thing you want to be able to do is exit the aircraft quickly with immediate stability. This means either a diving exit or a quick step-off belly, hips and shoulders into the wind. Have your instructors show you, and teach you, good methods for stable exits and then practice until you get confidence in your ability.

Unfortunately for Scott, he had to do it with no practice. Fortunately for him it worked out. YOU on the other hand, can, and should, get that practice before you actually need to use it in an emergency...at low altitude.

The recommendation is that you practice exit stability from altitude and get it dialed in before you do the low altitude exit. That way, if you have to exit at low altitude, you will have already developed the skill to do it with stability.

You can get that practice on fun jumps AND working jumps from altitude.

Worst case is not knowing how, stepping out and tumbling out of control at low altitude....could be very ugly...for everyone.


Again, Scott...good job.

I bet you learned something about vertical altitude loss on H&P immediate deployments, eh? Not so scary now is it?


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Jan 16, 2012, 12:18 AM
Post #13 of 36 (2055 views)
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Re: [Squeak] Emergency exit for first hop and pop [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Wow HnP aren't part of the AFF table there?
They are here, 9 stages to AFF and stage 9 is HnPs

Well, yes and no.
AFF, no. Other harness-hold related training programs, yes.

AFF is 7 levels and the license requirement jumps are external to that. Other related training methods are more "stages". The major difference is that in the other cases, several of the A-license required jumps are included under the "AFF" program umbrella.

And, that accounts for much of the wide range of costs for training you see across the country....just what does the training course include?

Some harness-hold training programs also include near the end a freefly jump or two....just prior to A-license.

We have several training methods and it can get confusing.
AFF, AFP, APF, Tandem Progression, static line....and more.
On top of that, some DZs do their own thing and modify programs at will according to their own experiences or beliefs.

Either way, the low altitude exit is a requirement for qualifying for an A-license.

I'm surprised you asked and after having typed all that, I though maybe I fell for your joke. If so, just laugh at my sitting here, caught in your trap. GAAAAACK!
LaughLaughLaugh


(This post was edited by popsjumper on Jan 16, 2012, 12:20 AM)


sundevil777  (D License)

Jan 16, 2012, 12:23 AM
Post #14 of 36 (2050 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] Emergency exit for first hop and pop [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The thing you want to be able to do is exit the aircraft quickly with immediate stability

Quite right - quickly is the key. If an actual emergency happens, it won't be possible to delay at all getting set at the door, because someone will be shoving you out of the way! Newbies should be reminded that they should move so fast toward and out the door that it would be like they were a late diver on a formation load. Quite different than even thinking that the slightest hesitation would be allowed.

In reply to:
Either way, the low altitude exit is a requirement for qualifying for an A-license.

Is it taught in such a way that they have to approach and leave the door in such an immediate/emergency fast motion?


(This post was edited by sundevil777 on Jan 16, 2012, 12:25 AM)


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Jan 16, 2012, 1:05 AM
Post #15 of 36 (2039 views)
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Re: [sundevil777] Emergency exit for first hop and pop [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Is it taught in such a way that they have to approach and leave the door in such an immediate/emergency fast motion?

Well, unfortunately, therein lies a problem.
In some places, by some instructors, yes. In others, no.
-Some teach only diving exit.
-Some teach only upright rotation into the wind.
(I personally teach both)
-Some slack off and teach very little if anything.
(Ahhhh...just jump out...you'll be OK.)

Related questions:
-Is it taught to check altitude for main/reserve threshold altitude?

-What altitude threshold, if any, do you tell a student to go on main or go on reserve?

-Did the OP know about those things?


CornishChris  (C 102981)

Jan 16, 2012, 1:45 AM
Post #16 of 36 (2028 views)
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Re: Emergency exit for first hop and pop [In reply to] Can't Post

I had a similr situation with my HnP on AFF but the engine actually stopped. I had 5 static line jumps so 4k was no biggie. Well done.

On a side note I used to jump at a DZ in Oz that made AFF students do three hop n pops to graduate - from memory it was 5k, 4k, 3k. Just to get them more used to exiting low. I thought it was a good idea.


TriGirl  (B License)

Jan 16, 2012, 8:09 AM
Post #17 of 36 (1941 views)
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Re: [CornishChris] Emergency exit for first hop and pop [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
On a side note I used to jump at a DZ in Oz that made AFF students do three hop n pops to graduate - from memory it was 5k, 4k, 3k. Just to get them more used to exiting low. I thought it was a good idea.

My instructors in the US made it part of the AFF graduation, too (well, our 2 H&Ps). One from 5, one from 3.5. Once I did those, my instructor announced I graduated AFF and that beer would be on me that night! Tongue


ntrprnr  (B 28397)

Jan 16, 2012, 10:31 AM
Post #18 of 36 (1891 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] Emergency exit for first hop and pop [In reply to] Can't Post

I wish there were "like" buttons on here for the majority of your posts.


scottd818  (C 41314)

Jan 16, 2012, 1:44 PM
Post #19 of 36 (1828 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] Emergency exit for first hop and pop [In reply to] Can't Post

Pops thanks for the great feedback. This may not have been a serious emergency but from where i was sittig at the time it sure felt like it. Im pretty low on jump numbers. It sure got the adrenaline pumping. i was planning on doin my first hop n pop that day. it just wasnt planned on that one or under those circumstances. i look forward to doin a few more of them next time i head to the dz. The day before i had done two exits where i practiced getting stable quickly in preperation for my hop n pop. it sure payed off doin that. Thanks again for all the POSITIVE feedback.


Fallcoholic  (A License)

Jan 16, 2012, 2:50 PM
Post #20 of 36 (1800 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] Emergency exit for first hop and pop [In reply to] Can't Post

Related questions:
-Is it taught to check altitude for main/reserve threshold altitude?

-What altitude threshold, if any, do you tell a student to go on main or go on reserve?

-Did the OP know about those things?
Being a newbie A licensee, I will say that yes, I was taught to be altitude aware even on the flight up. I was instructed that in an emergency if below 3000' feet to go straight to reserve, any higher pull my main. I was also told to look out the window periodically to get a visual reference of different altitudes (see what 1500' looks like, etc.). Frankly, I think I am a bit obsessive with checking my alti, but that is probably a good thing for a newbie.


Andy9o8  (D License)

Jan 16, 2012, 3:13 PM
Post #21 of 36 (1786 views)
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Re: [Fallcoholic] Emergency exit for first hop and pop [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I was instructed that in an emergency if below 3000' feet to go straight to reserve, any higher pull my main.

I don't have my "I" rating, but I think that's an unnecessarily high hard-deck for a true "clear & pull", even for a student, even in these days of higher pull altitudes and snivelly canopies. What do you instructors out there (especially the long-timers) think?


grimmie  (D 18890)

Jan 16, 2012, 3:33 PM
Post #22 of 36 (1773 views)
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Re: [Andy9o8] Emergency exit for first hop and pop [In reply to] Can't Post

Some DZ's are surrounded by some pretty high hills.
If I was at Lost Prairie that might be a good idea.Tongue


Fallcoholic  (A License)

Jan 16, 2012, 3:37 PM
Post #23 of 36 (1768 views)
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Re: [Andy9o8] Emergency exit for first hop and pop [In reply to] Can't Post

That altitude was for students. I think the reasoning is that as a student we were taught that if we didn't have a properly functioning canopy by 2500' to go to EP's. So exiting on a main lower than 3000' feet as a student doesn't give much time before the 2500' EP hard deck. I understand what you are saying though, seems a bit high to go to your last option. I would also be interested in seeing what the general consensus of what a good hard deck for pulling the reserve on exit is in an emergency situation.


DeNReN  (B 5642)

Jan 16, 2012, 3:38 PM
Post #24 of 36 (1766 views)
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Re: [Andy9o8] Emergency exit for first hop and pop [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I was instructed that in an emergency if below 3000' feet to go straight to reserve, any higher pull my main.

I don't have my "I" rating, but I think that's an unnecessarily high hard-deck for a true "clear & pull", even for a student, even in these days of higher pull altitudes and snivelly canopies. What do you instructors out there (especially the long-timers) think?

As per the USPA SIM, minimum opening altitude for students is 3000ft.... so instructing a student to go to reserve on a 3000ft exit is not unwarranted....


Andy9o8  (D License)

Jan 16, 2012, 3:57 PM
Post #25 of 36 (1750 views)
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Re: [DeNReN] Emergency exit for first hop and pop [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
I was instructed that in an emergency if below 3000' feet to go straight to reserve, any higher pull my main.

I don't have my "I" rating, but I think that's an unnecessarily high hard-deck for a true "clear & pull", even for a student, even in these days of higher pull altitudes and snivelly canopies. What do you instructors out there (especially the long-timers) think?

As per the USPA SIM, minimum opening altitude for students is 3000ft.... so instructing a student to go to reserve on a 3000ft exit is not unwarranted....

That's with a planned jump, not a pilot-instructed emergency exit, and that also contemplates the scenario of deploying at 3K at terminal, not "count-to-two-and-pull".


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