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Eugene Skydivers- Airport Access Fight

 

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CSpenceFLY  (D 25252)

Jan 12, 2012, 8:04 AM
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Re: [stratostar] Eugene Skydivers- Airport Access Fight [In reply to] Can't Post

It's ashame that this same dog and pony show is allowed to play out over and over and over again.


TheCaptain  (D License)

Jan 12, 2012, 8:48 AM
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Re: [stratostar] Eugene Skydivers- Airport Access Fight [In reply to] Can't Post

City Counsel meeting 2009


(This post was
edited by TheCaptain on Jan 12, 2012, 8:52 AM)


TheCaptain  (D License)

Jan 12, 2012, 8:53 AM
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Re: [TheCaptain] Eugene Skydivers- Airport Access Fight [In reply to] Can't Post

I love that they are discussing what to do about skydivers not having insurance and will not let Urban explain that he has insurance to cover it.


(This post was edited by TheCaptain on Jan 12, 2012, 8:56 AM)


Southern_Man  (C License)

Jan 12, 2012, 11:11 AM
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Re: [stratostar] Eugene Skydivers- Airport Access Fight [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
(I'm not speaking for USPA, the FAA or any other person in the industry, I'm posting my personal thoughts on the matter. I could be wrong, no one appointed me the guru of airport access issues!)

You consistently post and follow these types of activities. I am wondering what sparked your special interest and if you have specialized knowledge or have participated in airport access fights of your own?

Not meant to distract from this topic in particular, I appreciate that you follow these things and attempt to keep us updated, just curious as to why.




ixlr82  (C 33491)

Jan 12, 2012, 7:22 PM
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Re: [stratostar] Eugene Skydivers- Airport Access Fight [In reply to] Can't Post

Creswell had/has one of the nicest and safest landing areas I've ever jumped at, with outs everywhere. If this LZ is unsafe, I have yet to jump at a safe one.


SStewart  (D 10405)

Jan 12, 2012, 10:43 PM
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Re: [ixlr82] Eugene Skydivers- Airport Access Fight [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Creswell had/has one of the nicest and safest landing areas I've ever jumped at, with outs everywhere. If this LZ is unsafe, I have yet to jump at a safe one.

You are correct sir. This has nothing to do about safety it is yet another example of a low form of government (in this case a city council) trying to over-ride a higher form of government, the FAA. Why the FAA has not stepped up and enforced the law I can not even speculate.

I grew up in Oregon and at one point we had 7 active dropzones. At this point we are down to one active turbine dropzone and a few small dwindling 182 operations that are on the way out. If the trend continues there will be no place to jump in Oregon.

This is not just unique to Oregon, this trend has been happening nation wide. The small skydiving clubs and schools are dying and no one seems to care. It will get to the point where you will have to travel long distances or live close to a large city with a commercial dropzone nearby if you want to jump.

The small dropzones fuel the large ones, jumpers from the small DZ's go to boogies, travel when the weather is bad. What happens when they stop coming because there is no place to jump back home?

What happens when there is no upward mobility and only the very wealthy or people who live near highly populated areas have access to a dropzone?

It is happening my friends and people better wake up or someday you may find your dropzone closed and the only option is to go to another state to jump.




rowet  (D License)

Jan 13, 2012, 8:43 AM
Post #10 of 109 (8831 views)
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Re: [stratostar] Eugene Skydivers- Airport Access Fight [In reply to] Can't Post

so will this mean fun jumpers will be allowed back there? did my first tandem there 9 years ago and haven't been back but would love to jump there again.




JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Jan 13, 2012, 11:28 AM
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Re: [SStewart] Eugene Skydivers- Airport Access Fight [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Scott,

Well put.

As I understand the local scuttlebutt, the City of Creswell really wants to get rid of the airport completely.

One problem with these types of smaller dzs efforts is that a smaller dzo quite often simply does have the $$$ to keep going at it. In this case the City of Creswell does.

JerryBaumchen

PS) Let me add some further local scuttlebutt. The City of Creswell is fighting tooth 'n' Nail because if Urban eventually wins, he will sue them for his loss of income during this whole broughaha; and that would be a fair chunk of change.


(This post was edited by JerryBaumchen on Jan 13, 2012, 11:31 AM)




SStewart  (D 10405)

Jan 15, 2012, 12:31 AM
Post #14 of 109 (8691 views)
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Re: [stratostar] Eugene Skydivers- Airport Access Fight [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
Why the FAA has not stepped up and enforced the law I can not even speculate.

I'll go there. It's easy to forget ( I've done it) that a part 13 informal complaint is, well informal and more or less like a mediation process, more or less it's showing the courts the party tired to get compliance via talks mediated through the FAA and when all that fails, you move onto a part 16 formal complaint

As a side note, (also east to forget) a part 13 case, the FAA (as I understand it) will not issue a ruling, but they will make a determination as to an airport sponsors compliance or not. The most important thing that is sometime forgotten about a PT 13, is it's open ended and there is no time limit for the FAA to make a determination on an informal complaint. Maybe this is why they filed to the next level???

Regardless of all that, Scott, your post is pretty much right on and sums it up.

I do know one thing, all this bullshit will make your head spin trying to keep track of all the rules and subsections in the guidance, more so if your knee deep in the pile.

http://www.faa.gov/...mpliance/complaints/

Quote:
Informal Complaints (Part 13)

The FAA accepts informal complaints either verbally or in writing under Title 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 13 (Part 13), Investigative and Enforcement Procedures (Section 13.1 ONLY). FAA regional staff usually looks into these complaints.

Part 13 imposes no time deadlines for issuing decisions.

Formal Complaints (Part 16)

The FAA accepts formal complaints in writing under Title 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 16 (Part 16), Rules of Practice for Federally-Assisted Airport Enforcement Proceedings. Parties filing under Part 16 must be substantially affected by the alleged noncompliance. FAA headquarters staff looks into these complaints.

Part 16 imposes strict deadlines for filing, adjudication, and appeal. The Regulation lists specific requirements for filing a Part 16 complaint.

Let me take this a step further....

Skydivers have always been their worst enemy. We have the law on our side but we don't know how to apply it. In most cases we just can't afford it.

In the last week we have lost another advocate and now the number of dropzones is shrinking.

Wake the fuck up people, our sport is under attack and we have to fight back and keep the small dropzones alive.




IanHarrop  (C 1152)

Feb 11, 2012, 6:20 AM
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Re: [stratostar] Eugene Skydivers- Airport Access Fight [In reply to] Can't Post

Airport on chopping block in Creswell

http://www.kval.com/...osure-139066649.html

CRESWELL, Ore.--The City of Creswell is considering closing its airport.

City leaders say the legal battle with Eugene Skydivers over using the airport is just too expensive and may force them to close the Creswell Airport entirely.

This battle goes back to 2006 when the city of Creswell stopped letting the Eugene Skydivers use the airport to land saying it was too dangerous.

Both sides have racked up large legal fees that are threatening both the small business and the future of the Creswell Airport.

Ive sold cars and trucks and motorcycles and the furniture inside the house has been sold," said Urban Moore with Eugene Skydivers.

Moore said that since the city denied his small business permission to land skydivers at Hobby Field in Creswell back in 2006, business has taken a toll.

We have to sell our house, its pretty much empty on the inside, said Moore.

Moore said the city shouldn't be able to keep his skydiving company from using airport land because the city is obligated to work with airport tenants based on federal grant guidelines.

Were a part of aviation, said Moore. We're a legitimate use of air space and airports and for them to not allow us to jump is a discrimination.

Creswell City Administrator Mark Shrives says the city is also suffering financially. Facing legal costs of up to $100,000 could make it too expensive to keep the airport open, he said.

Thats forcing the city to ask themselves if the airport is worth it.

How long do you continue to take funds from the city's general fund to fund the airport? Shrives asked.

This all stems from the City's concerns about determining if its safe to use their airport for skydiving. Both sides want the Federal Aviation Administration to weigh in.

Its been really frustrating trying to get some guidance from the FAA," said Shrives.

Now that Eugene Skydivings original informal complaint has become a formal complaint the city is looking at their legal cost if they could in fact legally shut the airport under federal rules.

The City of Creswell wants to know if residents think the airport is worth the legal battle before making any initial assessment.

The city is asking for public comment regarding the future of the airport after a special executive session at the Creswell Community Center, Feb. 14, at 6:30 pm.


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Feb 11, 2012, 8:16 AM
Post #17 of 109 (8481 views)
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Re: [IanHarrop] Eugene Skydivers- Airport Access Fight [In reply to] Can't Post

Just a question here... who owns the land?


grimmie  (D 18890)

Feb 11, 2012, 8:23 AM
Post #18 of 109 (8472 views)
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Re: [skyjumpenfool] Eugene Skydivers- Airport Access Fight [In reply to] Can't Post

This is posturing by the city. If they have accepted FAA funding, they are obligated to keep the airport open.

Don't try to understand why some airport sponsors restrict access to skydiving and other commercial aeronautical operations. It will make you just shake your head.Crazy

Signed,
Fighting for airport access since March, 2010.


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Feb 11, 2012, 12:14 PM
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Re: [grimmie] Eugene Skydivers- Airport Access Fight [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Rich,

Quote:
If they have accepted FAA funding, they are obligated to keep the airport open.

I'm not able to quote line & verse from any FARs regarding this type of thing, but these are my thoughts on this also.

Stay tuned, film at 11.

JerryBaumchen


kallend  (D 23151)

Feb 11, 2012, 1:00 PM
Post #20 of 109 (8420 views)
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Re: [JerryBaumchen] Eugene Skydivers- Airport Access Fight [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Hi Rich,

Quote:
If they have accepted FAA funding, they are obligated to keep the airport open.

I'm not able to quote line & verse from any FARs regarding this type of thing, but these are my thoughts on this also.

Stay tuned, film at 11.

JerryBaumchen

Jerry,

It's a contractual obligation, not a FAR,




JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Feb 11, 2012, 2:11 PM
Post #22 of 109 (8393 views)
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Re: [stratostar] Eugene Skydivers- Airport Access Fight [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi strat, and John,

Thanks for the info.

It would seem as though the small town of Creswell, Oregon is digging a deeper & deeper financial hole.

This is the type of thing that can bankrupt a small town.

Too bad in my book, Mad

JerryBaumchen


FastRon

Feb 11, 2012, 2:22 PM
Post #23 of 109 (8390 views)
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Re: [JerryBaumchen] Eugene Skydivers- Airport Access Fight [In reply to] Can't Post

 
<Well put.

As I understand the local scuttlebutt, the City of Creswell really wants to get rid of the airport completely.

JerryBaumchen>

I agree-
In other venues, we've seen the real agenda behind efforts like the City of Creswell- driven by behind-the-scene developer money. Is there already a buyer for the airport property? Is Creswell proactively spending money on the issue? Do cities usually do that unless they anticipate a method to recoup? Cities usually employ people to advise them on 'issues' like that, to make (better?) financial decisions...

I don't know Creswell but airport properties don't reqire a lot of earthwork to prep for buildings and parking for stuff like malls, industrial parks, casinos and racetracks. Don't they all bring more tax revenues to the city, than airports do?
Just saying.


kallend  (D 23151)

Feb 11, 2012, 3:14 PM
Post #24 of 109 (8368 views)
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Re: [FastRon] Eugene Skydivers- Airport Access Fight [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
<Well put.

As I understand the local scuttlebutt, the City of Creswell really wants to get rid of the airport completely.

JerryBaumchen>

I agree-
In other venues, we've seen the real agenda behind efforts like the City of Creswell- driven by behind-the-scene developer money. Is there already a buyer for the airport property? Is Creswell proactively spending money on the issue? Do cities usually do that unless they anticipate a method to recoup? Cities usually employ people to advise them on 'issues' like that, to make (better?) financial decisions...

I don't know Creswell but airport properties don't reqire a lot of earthwork to prep for buildings and parking for stuff like malls, industrial parks, casinos and racetracks. Don't they all bring more tax revenues to the city, than airports do?
Just saying.

If the city tries to close an airport that has received FAA grant money, then AOPA will undoubtedly get involved.




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