Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Wingsuit tries to board plane w/o leg straps

 


bodypilot90  (D 24249)

Jan 3, 2012, 11:11 AM
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Wingsuit tries to board plane w/o leg straps Can't Post

During the boogie Mark caught someone trying to board with out his legs straps on. Come on guys we already lost one guy in Sebastian to this. Gear checks are free.

Is it really that hard to tell if you leg straps are not on in a wing suit?


InfiniteSky  (B 33221)

Jan 3, 2012, 1:01 PM
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Re: [bodypilot90] Wingsuit tries to board plane w/o leg straps [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, it can be fairly easy to miss, especially in a tight fitting suit and if you tend to wear your leg straps on the looser side.

At Skydive Elsinore we've developed a quick easy wingsuit gear check that doesn't require unzipping the suit. Stand facing the wingsuiter and put your hands between the yoke of their rig and the to of their shoulders and have them shrug their shoulders. If their leg straps are on and tightened your hand will be pinched between the two, but if their leg straps aren't on or tightened the rig will ride up and won't tighten on your hands.

I also then double check their chest strap and make sure their handles are clear. The whole check only takes a couple seconds. Buddy checks are good. Don't think you're so good you'll never forget. We had a newbie wingsuiter insist on giving an experienced one (who insisted his leg straps were good) a gear check only to find his leg straps were not on.

If you wingsuit please get a gear check from someone before you get on the plane. And one before exit doesn't hurt either.


(This post was edited by InfiniteSky on Jan 3, 2012, 1:01 PM)


spikes2020  (A 254590)

Jan 3, 2012, 1:12 PM
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Re: [bodypilot90] Wingsuit tries to board plane w/o leg straps [In reply to] Can't Post

That seems like a really hard thing to miss.... but it happends....

Leg straps are part of my 3's self check....
1) 3 rings, chest stap, legstraps
2) helmet, goggles/mask, Altimeter
3) main, cutaway, reserve

Anyone else have a standard check list they have before jumping? maybe not a list but something they go over and over....


(This post was edited by spikes2020 on Jan 3, 2012, 1:17 PM)


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Jan 3, 2012, 1:21 PM
Post #4 of 20 (2386 views)
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Re: [bodypilot90] Wingsuit tries to board plane w/o leg straps [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
During the boogie Mark caught someone trying to board with out his legs straps on. Come on guys we already lost one guy in Sebastian to this. Gear checks are free.

Is it really that hard to tell if you leg straps are not on in a wing suit?

Hard to believe that someone can get so caught up in anything else than putting their gear on properly that they don't put their gear on properly.Crazy

How did "Mark" catch it? Was he giving the guy an unannounced gear check?


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Jan 3, 2012, 2:02 PM
Post #5 of 20 (2323 views)
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Re: [chuckakers] Wingsuit tries to board plane w/o leg straps [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

Hard to believe that someone can get so caught up in anything else than putting their gear on properly that they don't put their gear on properly.Crazy

It happens a lot more often than one would think. It's got much more to do with muscle memory and experience than it does 'smarts.'

As InfiniteSky mentioned, we have a system here that works well. We had a guy from the EU who is also a "Wingsuit Instructor" there; he got a new wingsuit shipped to him here in Elsinore. He'd refused gear checks all week.
A newly minted WS, with maybe 20 WS jumps under his belt was too dumb to know that it's OK to refuse a gear check, he told the "Wingsuit Instructor" that it was the rules of the DZ (It's not) and so the experienced guy got one anyway. According to the pilot and a TI/E, the Wingsuit Instructor blanched white.

It happens, perhaps more often than any of us realize. Glad this one was caught.


grimmie  (D 18890)

Jan 3, 2012, 2:07 PM
Post #6 of 20 (2315 views)
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Re: [bodypilot90] Wingsuit tries to board plane w/o leg straps [In reply to] Can't Post

It's not surprising, especially if someone is in a hurry.

Years ago I was on an otter load with Dale Stuart and Ray Cottingham at SDA. A guy came rushing up to the plane and jumped in last all frantic. He had a skyboard with him. As we started to taxi out, Dale asked him if he was pretty awesome on the board. He said yeah, he was getting pretty good and going to compete next weekend. Dale asked him how many jumps it took him to land a board without a rig on.

Holy Crap! He actually forgot his rig in his haste.

We taxied back to manifest so he could get his gear on.

Jeb would have been pissed if he pulled it off...Tongue



Check your gear, always. There is no such thing as a routine skydive.


bodypilot90  (D 24249)

Jan 3, 2012, 2:11 PM
Post #7 of 20 (2309 views)
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Re: [chuckakers] Wingsuit tries to board plane w/o leg straps [In reply to] Can't Post

Not sure he's been doing it a long time. I hope he got a nice dinner and some beers for it. I always eye ball everyone as we are walking up after i check mine own,


monkycndo  (D License)

Jan 3, 2012, 2:30 PM
Post #8 of 20 (2265 views)
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Re: [bodypilot90] Wingsuit tries to board plane w/o leg straps [In reply to] Can't Post

One thing that I emphasize heavily in my FFCs, once the rig is on your back, first thing you do is tighten your leg straps. No exceptions. Even if just going to a dirt dive, tighten the straps.

It might not be as comfortable to walk around, but if you get an unexpected Now Call, you won't have to deal with forgotten straps in the plane, or even worse, in the air.Pirate


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Jan 3, 2012, 4:54 PM
Post #9 of 20 (2167 views)
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Re: [DSE] Wingsuit tries to board plane w/o leg straps [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It happens a lot more often than one would think. It's got much more to do with muscle memory and experience than it does 'smarts.'
In reply to:

Well I'm not a wingsuiter, but spent many years as in instructor and your statement gives me pause. In any activity with potential outcomes as deadly as ours, the greater the propensity for error and more serious the consequences a particular aspect of the activity presents, the more diligence it should get. If "it happens a lot more often than one would think", I would think we would make sure it never happens.

IMO, it has nothing to do with muscle memory or smarts. It has to do with procedures and following them every time, all the time. One doesn't fly a plane without pre-flighting it, work on an electrical circuit without shutting off the power and checking for a current, or even set sail without inventorying equipment and supplies.

Even stupid people can follow procedures.


As InfiniteSky mentioned, we have a system here that works well. We had a guy from the EU who is also a "Wingsuit Instructor" there; he got a new wingsuit shipped to him here in Elsinore. He'd refused gear checks all week.
A newly minted WS, with maybe 20 WS jumps under his belt was too dumb to know that it's OK to refuse a gear check, he told the "Wingsuit Instructor" that it was the rules of the DZ (It's not) and so the experienced guy got one anyway. According to the pilot and a TI/E, the Wingsuit Instructor blanched white.
In reply to:

Kinda proves my point. The noob followed a procedure even at the risk of being dressed down and saved an egotistic fool.


It happens, perhaps more often than any of us realize. Glad this one was caught.
In reply to:

Give the noob a cookie. Give the instructor a bowling ball.


Andrewwhyte  (C 1988)

Jan 3, 2012, 5:37 PM
Post #10 of 20 (2147 views)
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Re: [grimmie] Wingsuit tries to board plane w/o leg straps [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It's not surprising, especially if someone is in a hurry.

Years ago I was on an otter load with Dale Stuart and Ray Cottingham at SDA. A guy came rushing up to the plane and jumped in last all frantic. He had a skyboard with him. As we started to taxi out, Dale asked him if he was pretty awesome on the board. He said yeah, he was getting pretty good and going to compete next weekend. Dale asked him how many jumps it took him to land a board without a rig on.

Holy Crap! He actually forgot his rig in his haste.

We taxied back to manifest so he could get his gear on.

Jeb would have been pissed if he pulled it off...Tongue



Check your gear, always. There is no such thing as a routine skydive.

LaughLaughLaugh
I can just see Dale playing the role, big enthusiastic smile on her face.


Trae  (Student)

Jan 3, 2012, 10:42 PM
Post #11 of 20 (2053 views)
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Re: [grimmie] Wingsuit tries to board plane w/o leg straps [In reply to] Can't Post

in reply to "Holy Crap! He actually forgot his rig in his haste.

We taxied back to manifest so he could get his gear on. "
.............................................

You let that guy jump with you ? after he forgot to put his gear on.?

I've seen people try and go skydiving without any equipment a few times now.
Those people don't skydive anymore...not near me.
They're about the biggest type of idiot you can meet in this sport.

IMHo .if you see one don't be on a plane with them or their stupid mates. Sure, taxi back if you have to , but only to kick them out of the aircraft.

You waited while he went back and put his rig on?
Crazy
Not sure who's dumber...


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Jan 4, 2012, 4:10 AM
Post #12 of 20 (1990 views)
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Re: [Trae] Wingsuit tries to board plane w/o leg straps [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
in reply to "Holy Crap! He actually forgot his rig in his haste.

We taxied back to manifest so he could get his gear on. "
.............................................

You let that guy jump with you ? after he forgot to put his gear on.?

I've seen people try and go skydiving without any equipment a few times now.
Those people don't skydive anymore...not near me.
They're about the biggest type of idiot you can meet in this sport.

IMHo .if you see one don't be on a plane with them or their stupid mates. Sure, taxi back if you have to , but only to kick them out of the aircraft.

You waited while he went back and put his rig on?
Crazy
Not sure who's dumber...

A couple years ago I was sitting near the door of a Twin Otter when a videographer hopped on at the last minute with everything but a rig. Just for fun I waited until the plane began to taxi and then asked if she planned on jumping without a parachute.

Never saw anyone get off a plane so fast in all my years.

Procedures, people. Procedures.Mad


evilkalla  (B 34162)

Jan 4, 2012, 7:04 AM
Post #13 of 20 (1935 views)
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Re: [spikes2020] Wingsuit tries to board plane w/o leg straps [In reply to] Can't Post

The first thing I do when putting on my wingsuit is lay it out on the ground and slide my legs through the straps, then feet go in the booties. Only then do I lean back and put my arms in and through the arms and stand up. Other people may have a different "routine" but this has worked well for me.


(This post was edited by evilkalla on Jan 4, 2012, 7:05 AM)


stayhigh  (F 111)

Jan 4, 2012, 7:09 AM
Post #14 of 20 (1925 views)
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Re: [chuckakers] Wingsuit tries to board plane w/o leg straps [In reply to] Can't Post

I also have seen two people getting on board without their rig on.

Soooo much fun to make fun of them.


jumpsalot-2  (D 33093)

Jan 4, 2012, 7:58 AM
Post #15 of 20 (1876 views)
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Re: [evilkalla] Wingsuit tries to board plane w/o leg straps [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The first thing I do when putting on my wingsuit is lay it out on the ground and slide my legs through the straps, then feet go in the booties. Only then do I lean back and put my arms in and through the arms and stand up. Other people may have a different "routine" but this has worked well for me.
In reply to:
I think the step most people are referring to is when you stand up at that point with your suit on, first next thing is to fully tighten your leg straps. Then complete the front zippers up, and tighten your chest strap fully ( normal to jump with ). Then, if it's hot out, you can unzip some while leaving your chest strap tight. Adjust your booties and zip down your legs, and attach your snaps. Grab your helmet, etc. Get a gear check. Your ready to board the jump plane.


Ron

Jan 4, 2012, 8:11 AM
Post #16 of 20 (1866 views)
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Re: [chuckakers] Wingsuit tries to board plane w/o leg straps [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, it has happened even before wingsuits. I can think of three cases where a guy got on a plane without a rig or without it on correctly in the time I have been jumping. One was caught, the other two ended in fatalities.


grimmie  (D 18890)

Jan 4, 2012, 9:05 AM
Post #17 of 20 (1837 views)
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Re: [Trae] Wingsuit tries to board plane w/o leg straps [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
in reply to "Holy Crap! He actually forgot his rig in his haste.

We taxied back to manifest so he could get his gear on. "
.............................................

You let that guy jump with you ? after he forgot to put his gear on.?

I've seen people try and go skydiving without any equipment a few times now.
Those people don't skydive anymore...not near me.
They're about the biggest type of idiot you can meet in this sport.

IMHo .if you see one don't be on a plane with them or their stupid mates. Sure, taxi back if you have to , but only to kick them out of the aircraft.

You waited while he went back and put his rig on?
Crazy
Not sure who's dumber...

Yeah, I guess I was the dumb one. He was skysurfing alone, Larry Hill, the DZO was flying the Otter and decided to wait for him since it was a very slow day and we were about the only 20 or so people jumping that day.
A guy much smarter than me named Bryan Burke gave him a gear check on the ground before he hopped back in.
When I get smarter they will let me make all of the decisions at Skydive Arizone.

At least they used to let me sell the beer there...Cool


Premier Remster  (C License)

Jan 4, 2012, 9:15 AM
Post #18 of 20 (1820 views)
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Re: [grimmie] Wingsuit tries to board plane w/o leg straps [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
At least they used to let me sell the beer there...

We learned our lesson since then.WinkTongue


Trae  (Student)

Jan 4, 2012, 1:58 PM
Post #19 of 20 (1745 views)
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Re: [grimmie] Wingsuit tries to board plane w/o leg straps [In reply to] Can't Post

in reply to "A guy much smarter than me named Bryan Burke gave him a gear check on the ground before he hopped back in.
When I get smarter they will let me make all of the decisions at Skydive Arizone. "
...............................................

OK it was dumb of me to say YOU, I should 've said THEM. but I see their wisdom..... you sorry they , wanted him to hang around at least long enough for all the free beer he was gunna buy. Sly


skydvrvalco  (D 29564)

Jan 9, 2012, 8:38 AM
Post #20 of 20 (1416 views)
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Re: [bodypilot90] Wingsuit tries to board plane w/o leg straps [In reply to] Can't Post

 I have an old tonysuit stingray (Tony first model) The legstraps go on over the outside of the suit.I suffer no lack of performance as a result of this "arcaic" design.
Its tons of fun and virtually impossible to miss the legstraps being undone



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