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Would you ever through a student out without a altimiter

 

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aarco  (D 20876)

Dec 13, 2011, 1:27 PM
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Would you ever through a student out without a altimiter Can't Post

Would you ever through a student out without a altimiter. Most would scream no - very lowed I think - this is a next step topic - so treat it like a test -


BobMoore  (D 13136)

Dec 13, 2011, 1:35 PM
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Re: [aarco] Would you ever through a student out without a altimiter [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Would you ever through a student out without a altimiter. Most would scream no - very lowed I think - this is a next step topic - so treat it like a test -

No, and I wouldn't throw a student out without an altimeter either.


AndyMan  (D 25698)

Dec 13, 2011, 1:39 PM
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Re: [aarco] Would you ever through a student out without a altimiter [In reply to] Can't Post

Student jumps without altimeters were common in static line programs. Students were taught to count on their early freefall jumps.

Many tandem jumps are done without altimeters for the student.

Certainly altimeters are required for AFF.

_Am


jtiflyer  (D 27430)

Dec 13, 2011, 3:24 PM
Post #4 of 61 (3763 views)
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Re: [AndyMan] Would you ever through a student out without a altimiter [In reply to] Can't Post

i've given mine to a student who's altimeter failed on the ride up. I just looked at their's (mine) in freefall.


sacex250

Dec 13, 2011, 5:57 PM
Post #5 of 61 (3694 views)
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Re: [aarco] Would you ever through a student out without a altimiter [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Would you ever through a student out without a altimiter. Most would scream no - very lowed I think - this is a next step topic - so treat it like a test -

Holy crap! What is your native language?


Hellis

Dec 14, 2011, 4:34 AM
Post #6 of 61 (3555 views)
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Re: [aarco] Would you ever through a student out without a altimiter [In reply to] Can't Post

In emergency, yes.

In other cases I would give them the spare one that is in the plane, give them mine or ride down with them in the plane


Abedy  (D 10153)

Dec 14, 2011, 8:24 AM
Post #7 of 61 (3473 views)
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Re: [sacex250] Would you ever through a student out without a altimiter [In reply to] Can't Post

There are other reasons for spelling mistakes.
Just an idea: Ever thought a person might by a dyslexic? Dyslexia got nothing to do with one's IQ, BTW.
Apart from that, there are other conditions that usually result in more or less frequent spelling mistakes none of which got anything to do with intellectual capacity.

What a shame the netiquette rules of Usenet are no longer common. One of the rules was: Don't put the finger on spelling mistakes - you don't know what caused them.


Abedy  (D 10153)

Dec 14, 2011, 8:27 AM
Post #8 of 61 (3470 views)
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Re: [aarco] Would you ever through a student out without a altimiter [In reply to] Can't Post

It's not allowed here. We have a spare altimeter in the plane just for a case like this. Even if we didn't have one I would give mine to the student - they don't need any more problems to distract them. My 2c


TheCaptain  (D License)

Dec 14, 2011, 9:25 AM
Post #9 of 61 (3448 views)
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Re: [aarco] Would you ever through a student out without a altimiter [In reply to] Can't Post

I personally always wear two altimeters(one digital and one analog), mainly incase someone on the plane needs one. Usually about 3 times a year I lone them out on the plane.


manseman  (D License)

Dec 14, 2011, 9:31 AM
Post #10 of 61 (3444 views)
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Re: [Hellis] Would you ever through a student out without a altimiter [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In emergency, yes.

In other cases I would give them the spare one that is in the plane, give them mine or ride down with them in the plane
I agree, the emergency situation is a no-brainer. Otherwise, they're not leaving the plane without an altimeter. I would not consider giving my only altimeter to the student I was jumping with either.

I wonder who will end up paying for their slot though.


dragon2  (D 101989)

Dec 14, 2011, 9:35 AM
Post #11 of 61 (3434 views)
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Re: [aarco] Would you ever through a student out without a altimiter [In reply to] Can't Post

Not (never) our square students, but our SL round jumpers do jump without an alti. Tandem students don't get an alti either if you're after that.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Dec 14, 2011, 12:27 PM
Post #12 of 61 (3373 views)
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Re: [aarco] Would you ever through a student out without a altimiter [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, I have thrown out thousands of static-line and IAD students without altimeters.
I started (1982) long before USPA required altimeters. ... but I would do it again without hesitation.

If an IAD or S/L student looks at an altimeter - while hanging under a malfunctioned main - he/she is wasting valuable time, that would be better used pulling more handles.

I have also jumped with thousands of tandem students - who did not wear altimeters - that is because most first-tandem students are too emotionally-overwhelmed to look at, focus on, read, interpret and act correctly upon altimeter data.

Air traffic can also discourage issuing altimeters to tandem students. For example, Pitt Meadows DZ is on a standard approach to Vancouver International Airport. High openings are difficult to predict and force air traffic controllers to re-route a dozen airliners at a time.

IMHO altimeters are only relevant for students doing freefalls longer than 10 seconds.

Rob Warner
USPA Instructor for IAD and S/L (retired)
CSPA Instructor B for IAD, S/L and PFF
Strong Tandem Examiner
FAA Master Rigger


BIGUN  (D 23385)

Dec 14, 2011, 1:51 PM
Post #13 of 61 (3346 views)
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Re: [AndyMan] Would you ever through a student out without a altimiter [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Student jumps without altimeters were common in static line programs. Students were taught to count on their early freefall jumps.

Many tandem jumps are done without altimeters for the student.

Certainly altimeters are required for AFF.

_Am

Are they no longer required for Tandem students?


theonlyski  (D License)

Dec 14, 2011, 2:39 PM
Post #14 of 61 (3327 views)
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Re: [BIGUN] Would you ever through a student out without a altimiter [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Are they no longer required for Tandem students?

That is correct, they are no longer required for tandem students.


Andrewwhyte  (C 1988)

Dec 14, 2011, 4:31 PM
Post #15 of 61 (3293 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] Would you ever through a student out without a altimiter [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Are they no longer required for Tandem students?

That is correct, they are no longer required for tandem students.
According to who, The manufacturers or USPA?


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Dec 15, 2011, 12:39 AM
Post #16 of 61 (3220 views)
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Re: [aarco] Would you ever through a student out without a altimiter [In reply to] Can't Post

Would I "through" a student out without talking to them about it first? No.

Would I jump with an AFF student without an an altimeter? No.

Would I put a SL student out without an altimeter? No.

Would I jump with a later-level student who did not have an altimeter? Under some conditions, yes.


piisfish

Dec 15, 2011, 12:43 AM
Post #17 of 61 (3218 views)
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Re: [manseman] Would you ever through a student out without a altimiter [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Otherwise, they're not leaving the plane without an altimeter. I would not consider giving my only altimeter to the student I was jumping with either.

I wonder who will end up paying for their slot though.
certainly you , as you did not check your student's gear before boarding Tongue


tkhayes  (D 18764)

Dec 15, 2011, 5:14 AM
Post #18 of 61 (3182 views)
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Re: [aarco] Would you ever through a student out without a altimiter [In reply to] Can't Post

On a 10 second or less freefall, sure, but then I would have to modify the canopy plan as well.


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Dec 15, 2011, 7:13 AM
Post #19 of 61 (3152 views)
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Re: [Andrewwhyte] Would you ever through a student out without a altimiter [In reply to] Can't Post

USPA Unsure

Matt


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Dec 15, 2011, 7:53 PM
Post #20 of 61 (3063 views)
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Re: [matthewcline] Would you ever through a student out without a altimiter [In reply to] Can't Post

A student shouldn't be allowed into the plane with out an altemeter! His/her insturctor should have caught this on the ground before boarding. I do wear two; a pillow mount on a chest strap and a wrist mount. I have borrowed one or the other several times. Once to an instuctor whos students altimeter had malfunctioned on the way up.


Baksteen  (C 708753)

Dec 16, 2011, 12:11 AM
Post #21 of 61 (3033 views)
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Re: [aarco] Would you ever through a student out without a altimiter [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Would you ever through a student out without a altimiter. Most would scream no - very lowed I think - this is a next step topic - so treat it like a test -

We're a "static-line only" DZ.
I wouldn't put out students without an alti - I'd give them mine if necessary.
Because noone is allowed to jump without a working alti I'd then be forced to ride the plane down, unless I'd happen to accidentally fall out when watching the exit of my last student.Angelic


Tandem passengers aren't students. They're cash cows.


billeisele  (A 5643)

Dec 16, 2011, 4:00 AM
Post #22 of 61 (3012 views)
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Re: [aarco] Would you ever through a student out without a altimiter [In reply to] Can't Post

done it many times with SL students and made a few myself, after all I was born with two altimeters - they haven't failed me yet


icemaker  (D 25723)

Dec 19, 2011, 3:05 PM
Post #23 of 61 (2862 views)
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Re: [aarco] Would you ever through a student out without a altimiter [In reply to] Can't Post

No I would not take a AFF student on a skydive without a altimeter. Have I made skydives with out mine? Yes, quite a few. I always have my old school one on when getting on the plane. I have given it to students, up jumpers and instructors for differet reasons. From they were in a hurry to make the load to freaking out because the one they had did not read the same as everyone else.


rifleman  (Student)

Dec 20, 2011, 1:05 AM
Post #24 of 61 (2804 views)
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Re: [aarco] Would you ever through a student out without a altimiter [In reply to] Can't Post

Speaking as a S/L student jumping square canopies, I wouldn't jump without an altimeter. I'm constantly being told about the need to fly a safe pattern and to make turns at certain altitudes (set up for landing pattern at 1000ft, crosswind leg at 500ft, final into wind leg at 300ft) and would find it hard to judge visually at this stage in my jumping career.

Just my 2c worth.


BobMoore  (D 13136)

Dec 20, 2011, 2:27 AM
Post #25 of 61 (2794 views)
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Re: [rifleman] Would you ever through a student out without a altimiter [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Speaking as a S/L student jumping square canopies, I wouldn't jump without an altimeter. I'm constantly being told about the need to fly a safe pattern and to make turns at certain altitudes (set up for landing pattern at 1000ft, crosswind leg at 500ft, final into wind leg at 300ft) and would find it hard to judge visually at this stage in my jumping career.

Just my 2c worth.

You're absolutely right. But at some dropzones they talk the student in with radios. With that technique the student can get a sight image and visualize how far the ground should look at the different positions in the pattern. Of course you also can get that image for yourself while checking the altitudes on your altimeter.

With radios an altimeter is isn't necessary, that is until they stop working.Smile


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