Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
safety procedure - premature canopy opening during exit

 


Skyper

Nov 8, 2011, 5:27 AM
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safety procedure - premature canopy opening during exit Can't Post

during the exit(climb out) premature canopy opening which means that the canopy is opened on the door.

what would you do in the case you are the guy with the opened canopy?

what would you do if you stand next to him?


AggieDave  (D License)

Nov 8, 2011, 5:31 AM
Post #2 of 23 (1685 views)
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Re: [Skyper] safety procedure - premature canopy opening during exit [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
during the exit(climb out) premature canopy opening which means that the canopy is opened on the door.

what would you do in the case you are the guy with the opened canopy?

what would you do if you stand next to him?

If you're the guy, you probably won't have time to notice and react before you're ripped off the AC.

If you're next to the guy, you *might* have just enough time to push your buddy off the AC.

All in all it is a very dangerous situation that can be prevented with gear maintenance and diligence while moving about the AC.


JohnRich  (D License)

Nov 8, 2011, 6:19 AM
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Re: [Skyper] safety procedure - premature canopy opening during exit [In reply to] Can't Post

The guy: Let go of the plane immediately, and pray.

Next to the guy: Let go of the plane immediately, and pray.


spikes2020  (A 254590)

Nov 8, 2011, 6:21 AM
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Re: [AggieDave] safety procedure - premature canopy opening during exit [In reply to] Can't Post

my instructor told me if i see a pilot chute about in the AC to Shout "Pilot Chute" and kick that person out the door ASAP

Someone at that drop zone died and took out the plane because of something like this.

On the bright side the pilot and everyone else made it out okay...


(This post was edited by spikes2020 on Nov 8, 2011, 6:23 AM)


BIGUN  (D 23385)

Nov 8, 2011, 7:31 AM
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Re: [Skyper] safety procedure - premature canopy opening during exit [In reply to] Can't Post

What John said...

This is of the 2004 WFFC which most of us have seen a dozen times, but for those new to the sport...

How fast is fast?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imo3Nip-slc


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Nov 8, 2011, 2:20 PM
Post #6 of 23 (1454 views)
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Re: [spikes2020] safety procedure - premature canopy opening during exit [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
my instructor told me if i see a pilot chute about in the AC to Shout "Pilot Chute" and kick that person out the door ASAP

Someone at that drop zone died and took out the plane because of something like this.

On the bright side the pilot and everyone else made it out okay...
Died because they did what was advised or did NOT do what was advised. Please elaborate.


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Nov 8, 2011, 2:24 PM
Post #7 of 23 (1449 views)
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Re: [AggieDave] safety procedure - premature canopy opening during exit [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If you're the guy, you probably won't have time to notice and react before you're ripped off the AC.
I was front float on a Twin Otter. My back pack felt loose. I looked down to see my pull-out pilot chute laying on the thigh of middle float. I shoved off the a/c immediately and was under canopy, clear of the tail, maybe a second or two later. It pays to pay attention.Wink

I know there's a lot of stuff going on on climbouts, but it doesn't hurt to give a glance behind you to see if you're losing anything. That's what I try to do now.


(This post was edited by JohnMitchell on Nov 8, 2011, 2:24 PM)


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Nov 8, 2011, 3:05 PM
Post #8 of 23 (1428 views)
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Re: [BIGUN] safety procedure - premature canopy opening during exit [In reply to] Can't Post

>This is of the 2004 WFFC which most of us have seen a dozen times . . .

Some from a little closer than others.


BIGUN  (D 23385)

Nov 8, 2011, 3:10 PM
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Re: [billvon] safety procedure - premature canopy opening during exit [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
>This is of the 2004 WFFC which most of us have seen a dozen times . . .

Some from a little closer than others.

Yup, I was more than happy to have my perspective on the ground, than yours - right there.


captain_stan

Nov 8, 2011, 4:04 PM
Post #10 of 23 (1400 views)
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Re: [spikes2020] safety procedure - premature canopy opening during exit [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
if i see a pilot chute about in the AC to Shout "Pilot Chute" and kick that person out the door ASAP

Please don't push me out of the door while my PC is still inside the AC.

If you haven't climbed-out and I see your PC loose inside the AC, I'm gonna try to capture it before it (and you) go out.


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Nov 8, 2011, 4:07 PM
Post #11 of 23 (1396 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] safety procedure - premature canopy opening during exit [In reply to] Can't Post

While we're on war stories...

Hung my ass by my main from the strut of a 182 years ago. I was sitting in the "V" getting ready to chunk a 2-way when my bag fell over the front of the strut. Bailed off and came to a screeching halt a moment later. Jerked me 180 backwards and I thought my back was busted in half. Looked up to see my bag stuck in the crotch of the strut. Decided that rather than die I would cut away and pray for the pilot. Reached for my cutaway handle but the canopy slipped out of the bag on my side of the strut and dropped me free before I pulled it.

Normal opening followed by a 2-way CReW.

The beer seemed just a little colder that night.


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Nov 8, 2011, 4:08 PM
Post #12 of 23 (1396 views)
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Re: [captain_stan] safety procedure - premature canopy opening during exit [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
if i see a pilot chute about in the AC to Shout "Pilot Chute" and kick that person out the door ASAP

Please don't push me out of the door while my PC is still inside the AC.

If you haven't climbed-out and I see your PC loose inside the AC, I'm gonna try to capture it before it (and you) go out.

I wondered who else would catch that.


Krip  (Student)

Nov 8, 2011, 5:26 PM
Post #13 of 23 (1377 views)
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Re: [captain_stan] safety procedure - premature canopy opening during exit [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
if i see a pilot chute about in the AC to Shout "Pilot Chute" and kick that person out the door ASAP

Please don't push me out of the door while my PC is still inside the AC.

If you haven't climbed-out and I see your PC loose inside the AC, I'm gonna try to capture it before it (and you) go out.

Hi Stan

We witnessed a situation like you decribed.

Jumper was inside the plane getting into position to exit. His shit came out and a heads up jumper Mr Tim Wyboe standing next to the door kicked the bag towards the opposite wall and grabbed the jumper away from the door at almost the same time.

Mr Wyboe didn't have time to: scratch head, scratch butt he reacted immediatly in almost one fluid motionCool

I was still in the Shockedphase and was getting to the scratch head part and it was all over by then.Smile

Glad to see it being discussed on line now. Gotta know what to do before that stuff happens on jump run.

Don't worry folks I'm not jumping anymore,Angelic and it wasn't my rig that came open eitherUnimpressed

K-RIP


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Nov 9, 2011, 10:26 AM
Post #14 of 23 (1259 views)
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Re: [chuckakers] safety procedure - premature canopy opening during exit [In reply to] Can't Post

You got of luckier than Zoltan Peagan (sp?).
Circa 1984, Zoltan was sitting in the "V" (Cessna 180 series) when his reserve pilot chute went over the top of the wing. The inflating reserve dragged him over the top of the wing.
Zoltan suffered a broken spine and has been in a wheel-chair ever since.

I wonder what Zoltan is doing these days?


spikes2020  (A 254590)

Nov 9, 2011, 12:45 PM
Post #15 of 23 (1228 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] safety procedure - premature canopy opening during exit [In reply to] Can't Post

He died because the main bag got rapped around the landing gear and pulled the guy towards it breaking his neck... but could have been prevented if maybe seen or reacted sooner. it was a C-182. that is about all the information i have.


spikes2020  (A 254590)

Nov 9, 2011, 12:53 PM
Post #16 of 23 (1218 views)
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Re: [captain_stan] safety procedure - premature canopy opening during exit [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
if i see a pilot chute about in the AC to Shout "Pilot Chute" and kick that person out the door ASAP

Please don't push me out of the door while my PC is still inside the AC.

If you haven't climbed-out and I see your PC loose inside the AC, I'm gonna try to capture it before it (and you) go out.


I guess it all depends on the situation, if the door is open and your right next to it. The chance of you grabbing the pilot chute before it gets taken away in the wind is a bit different than if it was maybe further back in the plane. Like Krip said some of us don't have the reaction times yet to even probably do anything....

Maybe we should practice this at our DZ on the ground so we could get it as a reaction, like our our EP are.


Austintxflight

Nov 9, 2011, 1:52 PM
Post #17 of 23 (1188 views)
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Re: [spikes2020] safety procedure - premature canopy opening during exit [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

Maybe we should practice this at our DZ on the ground so we could get it as a reaction, like our our EP are.

I just don't see anyone's reaction time quick enough to have any probability of success at this, at least to where practicing on the ground would improve it.

Go outside and try and catch a hummingbird or dragonfly.

plus what stage of training would you do this at? Between AFF and A license? it seems like sensory overload for a new jumper.


captain_stan

Nov 9, 2011, 2:02 PM
Post #18 of 23 (1183 views)
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Re: [spikes2020] safety procedure - premature canopy opening during exit [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
if i see a pilot chute about in the AC to Shout "Pilot Chute" and kick that person out the door ASAP

Quote:
The chance of you grabbing the pilot chute before it gets taken away in the wind

If I'm sitting in the 182 behind the spotter and his container opens, I'm gonna grab an arm-load of nylon and pull him backwards by the rig-collar while we all get the door shut, not push him out ahead of his PC. Post #13 recount a similar event in a bigger aircraft.

There are as many scenarios as there are different airplanes, doors, rigs, and skydivers. Much of the difference may be whether the jumper is facing out or in and how close he is to door. My goal is gonna be keeping the skydiver and his gear on the same side of the door, in or out, whatever that takes. That includes helping a jumper exit if necessary.


(This post was edited by captain_stan on Nov 9, 2011, 2:54 PM)


wildcard451  (D License)

Nov 9, 2011, 4:32 PM
Post #19 of 23 (1146 views)
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Re: [spikes2020] safety procedure - premature canopy opening during exit [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Quote:
if i see a pilot chute about in the AC to Shout "Pilot Chute" and kick that person out the door ASAP

Please don't push me out of the door while my PC is still inside the AC.

If you haven't climbed-out and I see your PC loose inside the AC, I'm gonna try to capture it before it (and you) go out.


I guess it all depends on the situation, if the door is open and your right next to it. The chance of you grabbing the pilot chute before it gets taken away in the wind is a bit different than if it was maybe further back in the plane. Like Krip said some of us don't have the reaction times yet to even probably do anything....

Maybe we should practice this at our DZ on the ground so we could get it as a reaction, like our our EP are.

Contrary to whuffo belief things are not automatically sucked out of the door of our aircraft. There can be quite a few spots of dead air, even right near an open door, that a pilot chute might just flop out into. Esp true if you are putting a chunk in the door and there are already people outside.

Don't just launch a person out the door unless stuff is already headed that way.

If the situation provides time to think, please do. If it does not, then send them on their way.


theonlyski  (D License)

Nov 10, 2011, 5:27 AM
Post #20 of 23 (1068 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] safety procedure - premature canopy opening during exit [In reply to] Can't Post

After an EXTREMELY bumpy take off in a PAC where I was sitting on the floor against the back bulkhead on my knees (and seatbelted in) my container felt funny... I asked another jumper for a pin check. I was the only one on the floor, so I didn't open the door till I was happy with my pin check.

So I rotated so she can check me, and:

"You're out!!!"
"What do you mean?"
"YOUR MAIN IS OUT!!!!!!!!"

Yes, the bumpy take off moving me around the door track knocked my pin out and the main was now sitting in the bag on my feet, with my container wide open. This was in a Vector3-M, properly filled with canopies that the container was sized for, bridle all tucked in and hidden, main pin flap closed, proper length (maybe even a little shorter) main closing loop.

Took the rig off, re-closed it, put it back on and did another check of 3's. Uneventful skydive and opening.


Lesson learned: Check your shit before the door opens, and don't hesitate to keep it closed till you're satisfied, pin checks save lives. A few minutes of cool air is worth not killing a dozen or two of your friends.

I reach back and feel my pin, then handle check before I open the door.


(This post was edited by theonlyski on Nov 10, 2011, 5:30 AM)


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Nov 10, 2011, 7:19 AM
Post #21 of 23 (1026 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] safety procedure - premature canopy opening during exit [In reply to] Can't Post

I had the same thing with a Racer in a 182. I felt really naked by the jump door at 8K with my rig off repacking it. CrazyLaugh Jump was normal. Smile

Yes, Check your $hit before you open the door. Cool


theonlyski  (D License)

Nov 10, 2011, 4:11 PM
Post #22 of 23 (949 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] safety procedure - premature canopy opening during exit [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I had the same thing with a Racer in a 182. I felt really naked by the jump door at 8K with my rig off repacking it. CrazyLaugh Jump was normal. Smile

Yes, Check your $hit before you open the door. Cool

That isn't a good feeling! LaughLaugh


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Nov 11, 2011, 4:35 PM
Post #23 of 23 (880 views)
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Re: [spikes2020] safety procedure - premature canopy opening during exit [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I guess it all depends on the situation, if the door is open and your right next to it. The chance of you grabbing the pilot chute before it gets taken away in the wind is a bit different than if it was maybe further back in the plane. Like Krip said some of us don't have the reaction times yet to even probably do anything....

Maybe we should practice this at our DZ on the ground so we could get it as a reaction, like our our EP are.

I believe you have not completely understood your training. Go back and re-hash aircraft emergency procedures with your instructors.

Have you read the SIM? What does it say?



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