Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Freeflying:
Speed Tracking World Record 2012

 


hausair

Nov 5, 2011, 9:34 AM
Post #1 of 20 (3436 views)
Shortcut
Speed Tracking World Record 2012 Can't Post

Hi Freeflyers

Have a look at
http://www.speed-tracking.com

I'm interested in any comments.

Thanks and blue skies
Marc
Attachments: speed_tracking.jpg (147 KB)


morris

Nov 5, 2011, 11:30 AM
Post #2 of 20 (3384 views)
Shortcut
Re: [hausair] Speed Tracking World Record 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Marc,

while I like the idea, youd need to specify what you are really looking for.
Is it a) the average horizontal speed for a given time or altitude?
Or is it b) nothing but the horizontal topspeed?
If its b) you might encounter a problem!
If you set any kind of record one of the best speedskydivers in the world might hear about it and like the idea to break it.
So far 4 persons on the planet have been able to reach average vertical speeds (over a distance of 1000m) that exceeded 500km/h, worldrecord almost 530km/h (average!).
Those guys are accelerating all the way till the very end of the 1000m distance that count for competitions and records and only start slowing down for opening because they are running out of altitude, not because they reach somekind of topspeed.
On the very best jumps their topspeeds are close to 600km/h(!) by the time they start to decelerate!
Most of them slow down by going on their belly to get rid of the speed asap.
Can you imagine what would happen - from a "horizontalspeed-point-of-view" - if they pull out of that kind of dive into a track?
My personal best average (by speedskydiving rules) is a bit less than 400km/h, the topspeed I reach on those jumps is maybe ~430km/h.
I already gave it a try and pulled out of the dive into a track, the horizontalspeed is mindblowing!
If you keep on going for too long youll risk not being able to make it back to the airfield under canopy.
So if this kind of horizontalspeed would count for a record, you better get into SpeedSkydiving first and see if you got the talent (I didnt) to challenge the best speeders in the world or otherwise any record will likely not stand for long.
Id take any bet that Marco Wiederkehr (former worldrecordholder, current worldchampion, number two on the list of the fastest jumps/persons of all times) would break it on first try...
Moritz


hausair

Nov 5, 2011, 12:29 PM
Post #3 of 20 (3374 views)
Shortcut
Re: [morris] Speed Tracking World Record 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Moritz

Thanks a lot for your passionate answer.
You are right, I should specify the goal.
It will be b) horizontal top speed.
And I'll get in contact with Marco, for sure.
How fast have you been on your mindblowing track, Moritz?

Maybe there are some SpeedSkydivers around with experience in getting horizontal after high speed dives and share these experiences here. I would like to see some tracks and GPS datas!

From aerobatics with gliders I know that you loose lots of energy when changing pitch from vertical to horizontal. In other words: maybe theres no need to steep dive first, when aming for fast foreward speeds.
I think it will be a "try and error" to come close to the perfect angle.
And of course it will be a dynamic change of body position according to pitch changes anyway.
Are there some aerodynamic experts here to help with this subject?

Anyway, we will see. I love competition.Smile

Best skies, Marc


angle228  (B License)

Nov 5, 2011, 9:51 PM
Post #4 of 20 (3330 views)
Shortcut
Re: [hausair] Speed Tracking World Record 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

"From aerobatics with gliders I know that you loose lots of energy when changing pitch from vertical to horizontal."

and where do you thing that energy goes when you go from verticle to horizontal? two main places (maybe some physics geeks on here can think of more....geeks)

A) its converted to heat or entroy
B) To makeing your ass fly a whole lot faster (horizontaly).....

I think you will find that a speed skydiver coming out of a full verticle dive into a track will have a MUCH MUCH (thats two muches) higher top speed that someone who is only attempting to gain speen via a horizontal track.

Also, How do you define a horizontal track... would there be a make slope that one could have to still be considered horizontal... how would you judge that?


(This post was edited by angle228 on Nov 5, 2011, 9:56 PM)


hausair

Nov 6, 2011, 1:16 AM
Post #5 of 20 (3314 views)
Shortcut
Re: [angle228] Speed Tracking World Record 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you angle228 for your comment

The horizontal track is defined:
a certain distance (from A to B on land) in a certain time. That's resulting in Groundspeed. But who cares about A and B in the air, when looking for top horizontal speed, right? I'm not sure if this is answering your question, sorry.

In training I realised that you can be too steep when looking for max. horizontal speed afterwards. Of course in Speed Tracking you need an angle down towards the ground; lets say its around 45. Otherwise it would be a flat track, resulting in max. glide ratio. In the video http://www.youtube.com/...ture=player_embedded you only see scenes of the training with Babylon-Freefly; not the Speed Tracking itself. There I track much steeper, of course. Why 45?: because it's just betweeen the two goals: getting as much horizontal distance covered - while getting more and more speed. Both at the same time and according to each other. I think it will be a thin line between those two goals. The vertical speeders have to start from 0.0km/h horizontal speed, of course they will accelerate fast, but in this time they will loose some speed as well, we'll see. One interesting thing would also be: how much foreward speed is produced by true air speed of the skydiver, and how much is resulted in creating lift in the horizontal flight direction with changes of the body position. Maybe it will be a constantly slight change of really stretched speed-body-position - and shaping the shoulders as a kind of "wing". But anyway, I'm looking foreward to datas of speeders. Let's try! And if a speeder shows me his +500km/h or even 400km/h in horizontal flight, I will be the first one in a standing ovation!
Cheers and have a great weekend, Marc from Blue-Skied-Switzerland


(This post was edited by hausair on Nov 6, 2011, 1:28 AM)


morris

Nov 6, 2011, 9:21 AM
Post #6 of 20 (3277 views)
Shortcut
Re: [hausair] Speed Tracking World Record 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

I dont know how fast Ive been going.
What I know is that those horizontalspeeds have been flown in wingsuits:
http://www.paralog.net/ppc/showspeedcomp.php
So without wingsuit you will for sure need to be faster to post an impressive result, topspeed at least exceeding 300km/h - without a vertical dive before to pick up speed!
With a highspeeddive in advance the horizontalspeed that can be reached will for sure be waaay faster....


hausair

Nov 7, 2011, 12:24 AM
Post #7 of 20 (3200 views)
Shortcut
Re: [morris] Speed Tracking World Record 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

You are right, Moritz, Topspeed should be 300km/h + I'm not sure if I will even take my Tracking Suit for the record. Maybe I'll just jump in a J&F-Suit, like the skiers. Then it would be a record really without any additional aerodynamic help from any suit at all. Just with the body. There's no sense in comparing this with wingsuit-speeds, I think. And you know, there's a difference between a single event like this record from high altitude to an event with specific rules we would have to create first. It's more like an eyecatcher for a "new" discipline. There have been such speed tracking events before, I've heard. Does anyone knows something about it?


piisfish

Nov 7, 2011, 2:25 AM
Post #8 of 20 (3182 views)
Shortcut
Re: [hausair] Speed Tracking World Record 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

apparently the site is down, but there was a disciplin called "tracking derby", which was not a speed run, but distance covered in a limited time, within a determined altitude window.
Turns out that the speeds were approx 300km/h in "regular" Freefly or RW suits.

where do you jump in Switzerland ?


(This post was edited by piisfish on Nov 7, 2011, 2:29 AM)


morris

Nov 7, 2011, 3:37 AM
Post #9 of 20 (3174 views)
Shortcut
Re: [hausair] Speed Tracking World Record 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

I just mentioned the wingsuitspeeds to point out that the trackingspeed needs to be faster.
Im still 100% sure that you wont be able to reach the horizontalspeed that can be achieved by pulling out of a high speed dive...


hausair

Nov 7, 2011, 11:22 PM
Post #10 of 20 (3100 views)
Shortcut
Re: [piisfish] Speed Tracking World Record 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi piisfish
Thanks for the infos, I remember the name: tracking derby.
Impressive, 300km/h. Some of those trackers should join a competition in speed tracking next year. Who would like to join?

Usually I jump in Empuria, where I made my AFF in '92
In Switzerland I've been to Reichenbach and Kappelen.
And you?

Blue skies, Marc


5.samadhi

Nov 8, 2011, 4:47 AM
Post #11 of 20 (3074 views)
Shortcut
Re: [hausair] Speed Tracking World Record 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

make the sport a more viewer friendly sport and take the WR off a fixed object ... ohhh a cliff Cool


piisfish

Nov 8, 2011, 5:25 AM
Post #12 of 20 (3069 views)
Shortcut
Re: [hausair] Speed Tracking World Record 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

looking forward to see my own scoresSmile
Make sure the word is spread in Switzerland.

I usually jump in Bex, but also Gruyeres, Yverdon, Sion, Fribourg, and sometimes Grenchen, Beromnster, Kappelen.. and I try to be at least once a year in Empuria (I will be there for Xmas boogie)


hausair

Nov 8, 2011, 11:54 AM
Post #13 of 20 (3045 views)
Shortcut
Re: [5.samadhi] Speed Tracking World Record 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

Yess, 5.samadhi. You're my cameraflyer, jumping ahead.Angelic


hausair

Nov 8, 2011, 11:59 AM
Post #14 of 20 (3043 views)
Shortcut
Re: [piisfish] Speed Tracking World Record 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

Cool piisfish
As long as the weather forecast is not showing a full week of rain, I'll be there too. We could make some tracks together. Or some dives. Don't forget your camera. What kind of GPS do you use for this?


piisfish

Nov 9, 2011, 12:23 AM
Post #15 of 20 (2993 views)
Shortcut
Re: [hausair] Speed Tracking World Record 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

for trackingderby, they used Garmin Foretrex 201 if I remember correctly.
I prefer 1to1 jumps with direct competition/elimination, at least people jump in the same conditions.
willing to jump with you this winter, but I will also try and wingsuit a bit (lot)


hausair

Nov 9, 2011, 12:07 PM
Post #16 of 20 (2967 views)
Shortcut
Re: [piisfish] Speed Tracking World Record 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks piisfish for the garmin advise.
1:1 is perfect. Looking foreward to soem nice tracks.
As long as you don't eliminate me.
- Because I would like to drink some beers at the end of the day with you and other skydivers, OK?
Cheers, Marc


virgin-burner

Nov 10, 2011, 3:41 PM
Post #17 of 20 (2906 views)
Shortcut
Re: [hausair] Speed Tracking World Record 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

come to bero; it's around the corner (and over two hills) from you! Smile


hausair

Nov 11, 2011, 5:05 AM
Post #18 of 20 (2886 views)
Shortcut
Re: [virgin-burner] Speed Tracking World Record 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you virgin-burner
I will come! Soon. And you: come to Ampuria.
It's around the alps and the pyrenees...


aeroflyer  (C License)

Dec 3, 2011, 2:01 AM
Post #19 of 20 (2599 views)
Shortcut
Re: [hausair] Speed Tracking World Record 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

Interesting proposition. If you just want high horizontal speed (and not good glide), I imagine a head-down-ish track should be best, like a very streamlined Atmo position. I have seen some atmo flyers take off with massive forward speed after I've been flying beside them (and I couldn't catch em); they didn't necessarily have good glide (they're burning through altitude very fast), but very high horizontal speed. You could be coming down at near vertical but as long as you're going fast enough you'll have a large horizontal speed. From my own experience pulling out of a steep nearly head down dive gives a good deal of horizontal thrust. Here I believe flat tracking, or slow vertical fall rate tracking, isin't what you want. To get the real answer we'll have to dig a little into introductory aerodynamics and lift to drag ratios. Just to comment on the picture who tracks with their head up like that? I find it makes a big difference tuck that head in.

Also, I'd like to start a thread discussing the best body positions for tracking. I love tracking!


hausair

Jan 5, 2012, 3:59 PM
Post #20 of 20 (2421 views)
Shortcut
Re: [aeroflyer] Speed Tracking World Record 2012 [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Skyfolks
Comming back from Spain and now I know a little more about the best angle of SPEED: it looks like it doesn't matter, if you fly vertical first - or from the beginning with 45 angle. Both results where equal in speed.
I added a new Video on the site:
http://www.speed-tracking.com/english/
And I hope, you'll like it. Best wishes for 2012 to all of you.
Marc



Forums : Skydiving Disciplines : Freeflying

 


Search for (options)