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More than likely stolen Mirage G3 for sale in NorCal *PICS*

 

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SEREJumper  (D 29555)

Nov 2, 2011, 8:48 PM
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     More than likely stolen Mirage G3 for sale in NorCal *PICS*  

Hey guys, get the word out fast, this is probably someones rig they are missing. I didn't see anything in the "stolen gear" section, but not every jumper is on DZ.com. Guy has no idea what this is and says his "brother" gave it to him. Looking to offload it cheap. I couldn't get any serial #'s from him though. It's a pretty distinctive tyedye pattern, right mudflap says STAFF. Looks to be a small rig, get in contact with me ASAP!
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davelepka  (D 21448)

Nov 2, 2011, 9:03 PM
Post #2 of 61 (2442 views)
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     Re: [SEREJumper] More than likely stolen Mirage G3 for sale in NorCal *PICS* [In reply to]  

Quote:
Guy has no idea what this is and says his "brother" gave it to him

Tell him it's worthless without 'papers' and offer him $250 for 'parts value'. Explain that 'papers' are like the title to a car, and it's illegal to jump a rig without them.


dpreguy  (D 835)

Nov 2, 2011, 9:40 PM
Post #3 of 61 (2414 views)
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     Re: [davelepka] More than likely stolen Mirage G3 for sale in NorCal *PICS* [In reply to]  

As a former Dist Atty. I am sure the law in northern Calif is the same as everywhere: (appx) Any person who knowiingly purchases stolen goods, or purchases goods that he should have a reasonable belief are stolen, is guilty of theft.

So, don't buy a $2000 rig for $250, as you would be in the second category. You would be "complicit" as they say. You'd be in deep yogurt - fast.

Turn this guy over to the nearest police detective to investigate. Meanwhile, hope the true owner sees this post and is able to ID his stolen gear. Only an undercover cop can make a decoy buy. You can't


hcsvader  (E 2952)

Nov 3, 2011, 1:30 AM
Post #4 of 61 (2349 views)
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     Re: [SEREJumper] More than likely stolen Mirage G3 for sale in NorCal *PICS* [In reply to]  

Hahaha gotta love how they obviously openeed the main to see what was in it and couldn't get it closed again.


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Nov 3, 2011, 4:12 AM
Post #5 of 61 (2315 views)
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     Re: [SEREJumper] More than likely stolen Mirage G3 for sale in NorCal *PICS* [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Hey guys, get the word out fast, this is probably someones rig they are missing. I didn't see anything in the "stolen gear" section, but not every jumper is on DZ.com. Guy has no idea what this is and says his "brother" gave it to him. Looking to offload it cheap. I couldn't get any serial #'s from him though. It's a pretty distinctive tyedye pattern, right mudflap says STAFF. Looks to be a small rig, get in contact with me ASAP!

Easy there Dick Tracy. Just because the seller says his brother gave him the rig doesn't immediately mean the thing is hot. There's a sure-fire way to find out, though. Just reply to the guy asking for the serial number and DOM. If he gives it to you, check it against the stolen gear database (including one that USPA maintains).

If he won't provide it you can figure it's stolen. If he does you might just score a perfectly legal rig for pennies on the dollar!

Since it has some unique attributes (tie-dye fabric and "staff" embroidery) Mirage may be able to trace it to the original purchaser even without a serial number. That may allow a trace to any victim here.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Nov 3, 2011, 4:43 AM
Post #6 of 61 (2291 views)
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     Re: [SEREJumper] More than likely stolen Mirage G3 for sale in NorCal *PICS* [In reply to]  

Did you talk with him face to face? If not how did you find out about the rig?

Sparky


SEREJumper  (D 29555)

Nov 3, 2011, 5:44 AM
Post #7 of 61 (2260 views)
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     Re: [mjosparky] More than likely stolen Mirage G3 for sale in NorCal *PICS* [In reply to]  

It was listed on backpage, then taken down the same day, but the guy responded to my email and I called him. His story seems less than credible. I'm still waiting for a reply on the serial number, but haven't got one yet. I wouldn't post here if I wasn't 99% sure this rig was stolen.


Scrumpot  (D License)

Nov 3, 2011, 7:37 AM
Post #8 of 61 (2184 views)
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     Re: [dpreguy] More than likely stolen Mirage G3 for sale in NorCal *PICS* [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Any person who knowiingly purchases stolen goods, or purchases goods that he should have a reasonable belief are stolen, is guilty of theft.

So, don't buy a $2000 rig for $250, as you would be in the second category. You would be "complicit" as they say. You'd be in deep yogurt - fast.

I would think that the rightful owner would gladly reimburse the $250 as reward $$ in recognition of someone successfully recovering this for them. I know I would! I mean, so long as the intent wasn't for the OP to themselves just pick up a rig for themselves "on the cheap", and intents were pure/honorable to RECOVER this, before it is lost/further damaged/goes "underground" or even at this point just "tossed" - c'mon... really? Charges pressed?? I don't think so.

In reply to:
Turn this guy over to the nearest police detective to investigate. Meanwhile, hope the true owner sees this post and is able to ID his stolen gear. Only an undercover cop can make a decoy buy.

Oh yeah, sure. With all the (what the cops perceive as) much more serious crimes out there taking place, you think they're gonna get all this set up and be responsive to the un(directly)involved skydiver-dude's simple suspicions/request, so as to be timely AND EFFECTIVE in actually doing this? I doubt it.

In reply to:
Only an undercover cop can make a decoy buy. You can't

Probably technically "correct", but again - seriously. Something this OBVIOUS, and egregious?! ...Sometimes a brother skydiver has just gotta step up for the benefit/assistance of another. Sure, okay - TRY this 1st, and bring absolutely EVERYTHING you so far have, to the authorities in the jurisdiction. Get ANYTHING at all other than they will IMMEDIATELY get right on this - and I'm with Lepka. Document ALL the info on the "sellers" as you possibly can, and continue to track this down/pursue it once the rig is in SAFE hands. If I were local to there, I would do it/that is what I would do!

Any DA, ADA, or prosecutor of any sort with any even tinge of moral self-respect (not that they all have, so I suppose it is a "risk", but one I for one anyway would be WILLING to take) most certainly would not actually prosecute such, as such, for "receiving stolen goods", or being "complicit". Crazy

If they did - Mad

I mean, c'mon. ...Be REAL!!

My .02
FWIW.


(This post was edited by Scrumpot on Nov 3, 2011, 7:59 AM)


Scrumpot  (D License)

Nov 3, 2011, 7:56 AM
Post #9 of 61 (2156 views)
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     Re: [SEREJumper] More than likely stolen Mirage G3 for sale in NorCal *PICS* [In reply to]  

You seem to have "the perps" contact info/#. DON'T LET THIS GET AWAY!!

As pointed out in a previous post - also contact Mirage with what you have. It has CUSTOM tie-dye handles and embroidery. Chances are high/good that you can get this rig identified quickly, IF YOU DO NOT HESITATE.

VERIFY if the rig is stolen, or not. Then, proceed accordingly.

Good on you for coming here quickly, and at least TRYING to do a good turn, for a (suspected) injured (by virtue of lost/stolen gear) brother!!


dpreguy  (D 835)

Nov 3, 2011, 8:26 AM
Post #10 of 61 (2135 views)
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     Re: [Scrumpot] More than likely stolen Mirage G3 for sale in NorCal *PICS* [In reply to]  

You go down to a bar and some guy says he has a new flat screen TV in the manufacturer's box for $50, and "it's OK because his brother got it somewhere." You buy it; it turns out to be stolen. You are going to be prosecuted along with the thief or the thief's fence. End of story.

Yes of course this is prosecuted, and should be. Otherwise the fences could simply set up shop in every dive bar and the general public could regularly stop by for the latest "deal". The end result would be to encourage theft and burglary, as the above scenario makes it easy for the thief/burglar to move his ill gotten gains by directly selling stolen goods or by doing it through a fence.

Criminal laws are created to punish behavior destructive to an ordered society. Encouraging theft and burglary and making a cottage industry facilitating the sale and distribution of stolen goods (this guy is probably a fence) is not a good thing.

This thread starts with "Mirage is probaly stolen..." and the chief indicator of it's being stolen is that a 3000 rig is being offered for $250.00. Yes, a police detective may have a great interest in investigating this case, as it may expose a fence, who, when facing time, and in order to get a lighter sentence, will 'turn' on the actual burglar. You might be underestimating the power and tenacity of a good police department.

Bottom line, if a person buys this rig for $250 and it is clearly worth 10 times that much, he better be looking over his shoulder, as he has just bought an item a reasonable person should believe was stolen.
A 'wink and a nod' way of life is not an honorable exsistence.


SEREJumper  (D 29555)

Nov 3, 2011, 9:35 AM
Post #11 of 61 (2082 views)
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     Re: [SEREJumper] More than likely stolen Mirage G3 for sale in NorCal *PICS* [In reply to]  

So this rig was originally sold to an "Anne Davis" by dealer "FC SPA". Rig was made in Sept 2000, anybody know Anne?


AttmfC

Nov 3, 2011, 9:50 AM
Post #12 of 61 (2067 views)
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     Re: [dpreguy] More than likely stolen Mirage G3 for sale in NorCal *PICS* [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Encouraging theft and burglary and making a cottage industry facilitating the sale and distribution of stolen goods (this guy is probably a fence) is not a good thing.

Sure, enabling theft isn't a good thing. However, if I was Anne (or whoever the rightful owner is) and I was out of communication, I'd sure appreciate any measures someone takes in getting my property back. That would include someone purchasing the property on my behalf or simply notifying everyone as is done here.

Good one putting this up here and contacting Mirage.

BTW, a "fence" is the middleman between a thief and a buyer - had to look that one up!


firemedic  (D 29776)

Nov 3, 2011, 10:00 AM
Post #13 of 61 (2055 views)
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     Re: [dpreguy] More than likely stolen Mirage G3 for sale in NorCal *PICS* [In reply to]  

In reply to:
You go down to a bar and some guy says he has a new flat screen TV in the manufacturer's box for $50, and "it's OK because his brother got it somewhere." You buy it; it turns out to be stolen. You are going to be prosecuted along with the thief or the thief's fence. End of story.

Yes of course this is prosecuted, and should be. Otherwise the fences could simply set up shop in every dive bar and the general public could regularly stop by for the latest "deal". The end result would be to encourage theft and burglary, as the above scenario makes it easy for the thief/burglar to move his ill gotten gains by directly selling stolen goods or by doing it through a fence.

Criminal laws are created to punish behavior destructive to an ordered society. Encouraging theft and burglary and making a cottage industry facilitating the sale and distribution of stolen goods (this guy is probably a fence) is not a good thing.

This thread starts with "Mirage is probaly stolen..." and the chief indicator of it's being stolen is that a 3000 rig is being offered for $250.00. Yes, a police detective may have a great interest in investigating this case, as it may expose a fence, who, when facing time, and in order to get a lighter sentence, will 'turn' on the actual burglar. You might be underestimating the power and tenacity of a good police department.

Bottom line, if a person buys this rig for $250 and it is clearly worth 10 times that much, he better be looking over his shoulder, as he has just bought an item a reasonable person should believe was stolen.
A 'wink and a nod' way of life is not an honorable existence.

Ok, Hypothetical situation. Skydiver buys this rig for $X. Returns rig to rightful owner who happens to be a friend of his. Friend decides to file a report to try and nail whoever stole his rig. His friend gets charged for receiving stolen property? Don't DAs have discretion as to whether charges are filed or not?


wolfriverjoe  (A 50013)

Nov 3, 2011, 10:24 AM
Post #14 of 61 (2029 views)
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     Re: [firemedic] More than likely stolen Mirage G3 for sale in NorCal *PICS* [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
You go down to a bar and some guy says he has a new flat screen TV in the manufacturer's box for $50, and "it's OK because his brother got it somewhere." You buy it; it turns out to be stolen. You are going to be prosecuted along with the thief or the thief's fence. End of story.

Yes of course this is prosecuted, and should be. Otherwise the fences could simply set up shop in every dive bar and the general public could regularly stop by for the latest "deal". The end result would be to encourage theft and burglary, as the above scenario makes it easy for the thief/burglar to move his ill gotten gains by directly selling stolen goods or by doing it through a fence.

Criminal laws are created to punish behavior destructive to an ordered society. Encouraging theft and burglary and making a cottage industry facilitating the sale and distribution of stolen goods (this guy is probably a fence) is not a good thing.

This thread starts with "Mirage is probaly stolen..." and the chief indicator of it's being stolen is that a 3000 rig is being offered for $250.00. Yes, a police detective may have a great interest in investigating this case, as it may expose a fence, who, when facing time, and in order to get a lighter sentence, will 'turn' on the actual burglar. You might be underestimating the power and tenacity of a good police department.

Bottom line, if a person buys this rig for $250 and it is clearly worth 10 times that much, he better be looking over his shoulder, as he has just bought an item a reasonable person should believe was stolen.
A 'wink and a nod' way of life is not an honorable existence.

Ok, Hypothetical situation. Skydiver buys this rig for $X. Returns rig to rightful owner who happens to be a friend of his. Friend decides to file a report to try and nail whoever stole his rig. His friend gets charged for receiving stolen property? Don't DAs have discretion as to whether charges are filed or not?

Yes, they do. And the OP would have a pretty solid defense that he was doing this in order to return it to it's rightful owner, not to enrich himself by buying stolen goods at a discount price. This thread could be used towards that. He's making a good faith effort to find the rightful owner.


sundevil777  (D License)

Nov 3, 2011, 10:28 AM
Post #15 of 61 (2020 views)
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     Re: [SEREJumper] More than likely stolen Mirage G3 for sale in NorCal *PICS* [In reply to]  

Isn't there a "post your mirage" thread - maybe it is in there? It may already have been sold a couple times, perhaps a recent owner posted it.

I think the OP should buy it as quick as possible. The police could be informed that it is going to happen so they can choose to get off their arse and do their job. The thief may get nervous as questions regarding it's origin mount, may decide to throw it in a dumpster. I would think the police would be primarily interested in finding the thief/fence, and buying it can get them key info they likely otherwise would never get. Letting the police know you have bought/are about to buy something likely stolen I would think will not result in prosecution of the buyer. They will not condone the method, but will understand the intent and the actual result.


(This post was edited by sundevil777 on Nov 3, 2011, 10:30 AM)


dpreguy  (D 835)

Nov 3, 2011, 12:05 PM
Post #16 of 61 (1958 views)
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     Re: [wolfriverjoe] More than likely stolen Mirage G3 for sale in NorCal *PICS* [In reply to]  

Buying it, would mean the buyer is enriching the fence (the middleman)-and/or the actual thief. Having an altruistic reason for buying it is not a defense at all. Enriching the thief, directly or thru a middleman is the actual wrong sought to be punished. For good reason. If you enrich the thief, you encourage and reward that thief to continue his stealing. For that, the "good hearted" buyer would be prosecuted and punished.
There is no "good hearted purchaser exception" (defense) It doesn't exist.

Let's cool off and think of this thing as thing like the old movie, "The Blob". No way you can touch it without it covering you, and you getting consumed by it. This is a matter for the police. Not well-meaning skydiver buddies. I am one of those buddies too, and would do whatever I could to help another skydiver. This purchase idea isn't the way, unless done with the police.

I think this story will have a happy ending, as parachute assemblies are only of value to parachutists, we are a small community, and all of the components of this rig are serial numbered.
This seller who "got it from his brother or whatever" is motivated to move it to get money, and probably hasn't a clue of the above. Because he is not aware of all of this he will screw up. If all of us are diligent and report to every part of this to the police, the story will unfold and probably the true owner of this parachute will ultimately get it back.

Bad guys who make their life by stealing consider this whole thing as a business. The professional thieves deal in volume. They burglarize regularly, and move the stuff thru their fences, fast. The actual burglar may never get caught because of the unwritten 'snitch code' existing between him and his fences. Fences sell stuff for almost nothing, as they deal in volume too, and have to move fast. The person who buys the stolen stuff doesn't care if it is stolen and could care less about the original victim and is therefore considered to be just as evil as the burglar and his fence, because he is the one who makes it all work. If no one bought anything they "knew" (ridiculous price) to be stolen, the professional burglars would pretty much be out of business. That is how the enterprise is viewed, and why all of this plays out badly for anyone involved, and explains why the criminal justice system vigorously prosecutes and punishes the purcahaser. Even one with good motives.


Scrumpot  (D License)

Nov 3, 2011, 12:45 PM
Post #17 of 61 (1921 views)
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     Re: [SEREJumper] More than likely stolen Mirage G3 for sale in NorCal *PICS* [In reply to]  

Bring absolutely everything you have on this matter to the police **NOW**. DO NOT DELAY! Then, come back on here and report to us what happens.


skinnay

Nov 3, 2011, 1:42 PM
Post #18 of 61 (1858 views)
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     Re: [SEREJumper] More than likely stolen Mirage G3 for sale in NorCal *PICS* [In reply to]  

How big is the guy? How big are you?


beowulf  (C License)

Nov 3, 2011, 2:40 PM
Post #19 of 61 (1818 views)
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     Re: [skinnay] More than likely stolen Mirage G3 for sale in NorCal *PICS* [In reply to]  

I don't think he actually met the seller in person. Just via email and phone as posted earlier. Getting into a fight with the seller would just make the whole matter even more complicated. Going to jail for assault and battery wouldn't be much fun.


sundevil777  (D License)

Nov 3, 2011, 2:46 PM
Post #20 of 61 (1808 views)
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     Re: [Scrumpot] More than likely stolen Mirage G3 for sale in NorCal *PICS* [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Bring absolutely everything you have on this matter to the police **NOW**. DO NOT DELAY! Then, come back on here and report to us what happens.

Agreed of course, but if they aren't interested in pursuing it, then I think buying it is appropriate. I think it is quite possible that the fence/thief will dump it as pointed questions about serial numbers are asked. If it is thrown away, then it doesn't get recovered and the thief/fence get away with it. If it is bought, prosecution can still happen.


SEREJumper  (D 29555)

Nov 3, 2011, 2:53 PM
Post #21 of 61 (1800 views)
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     Re: [beowulf] More than likely stolen Mirage G3 for sale in NorCal *PICS* [In reply to]  

I'm not going to get into a physical altercation with the seller about the gear, in the end it's just nylon and hardware. I'm just trying my best to make sure that if it is stolen, that I can pass on the info to the owner.

So far Mirage, DZ.com, and USPA have not had any gear reported stolen that this matches. I have not been able to locate the original owner Anne Davis.


sundevil777  (D License)

Nov 3, 2011, 3:43 PM
Post #22 of 61 (1754 views)
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     Re: [SEREJumper] More than likely stolen Mirage G3 for sale in NorCal *PICS* [In reply to]  

In reply to:
So far Mirage, DZ.com, and USPA have not had any gear reported stolen that this matches. I have not been able to locate the original owner Anne Davis.

Then if you don't buy it, I'd like to. Laugh


Scrumpot  (D License)

Nov 3, 2011, 3:52 PM
Post #23 of 61 (1739 views)
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     Re: [sundevil777] More than likely stolen Mirage G3 for sale in NorCal *PICS* [In reply to]  

I agree, completely. But some people on here are let's say, just a little "polly-anna" / PANSIES, or actually do believe that the local authorities actually WILL jump right upon this. So, what the heck - DO then, give that a try. But... QUIT DODDLING / PLAYING JUNIOR CITIZEN DETECTIVE. - Either do as Lepka has suggested (you've got their #/contact/e-mail info!), or dpre-guy. Everything/anything else is just letting time (and re-trackable/traceable trails to these guys IF it is indeed stolen) get away.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Nov 3, 2011, 4:08 PM
Post #24 of 61 (1725 views)
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     Re: [SEREJumper] More than likely stolen Mirage G3 for sale in NorCal *PICS* [In reply to]  

In reply to:
So this rig was originally sold to an "Anne Davis" by dealer "FC SPA". Rig was made in Sept 2000, anybody know Anne?

......................................................................

Ther is a large skydiving center in Spa, Belgium, so I am guessing that the dealer was "Fallschirms Club Spa" in Belgium.

Maybe police will charge the seller with "international transportation of stolen goods."


sundevil777  (D License)

Nov 3, 2011, 4:35 PM
Post #25 of 61 (1702 views)
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     Re: [SEREJumper] More than likely stolen Mirage G3 for sale in NorCal *PICS* [In reply to]  

In reply to:
I'm not going to get into a physical altercation with the seller about the gear, in the end it's just nylon and hardware. I'm just trying my best to make sure that if it is stolen, that I can pass on the info to the owner.

So far Mirage, DZ.com, and USPA have not had any gear reported stolen that this matches. I have not been able to locate the original owner Anne Davis.

I think you've done a good faith effort (more than that) to confirm that what seems like a smokin' deal isn't a stolen deal. Even if it is stolen, that will become known soon given how word spreads on DZ.com. Even if it does turn out stolen, the worst thing that will happen is that the real owner will get it back, likely be very happy to reimburse you, and you'll collect info to provide police if it does turn out stolen. It might just be that it is a really incredible deal and the seller doesn't realize at all what it is worth.


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