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Witnessed an AAD save and it got me thinking...

 

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Zymurdoo  (D 16833)

Oct 31, 2011, 9:14 PM
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Witnessed an AAD save and it got me thinking... Can't Post

I witnessed an AAD save yesterday, while sitting on the ground, during the nationals at Eloy. The skydiver is a well respected jumper on the DZ and I have personally jumped with him several times.

I was watching the break off and deployments and witnessed what appeared to be a spinning malfunction. The jumper cut away and returned to stable freefall at >2000' AGL but then nothing happened. Rock solid freefall, no spinning, etc.

After 5+ seconds I was saying "get something out, get something OUT, GET SOMETHING OUT!!!" I was sure I was witnessing this jumpers last few seconds of life and when I had given up hope, his reserve extracted from his container and a ridiculously low altitude. Another jumper who was packing said she turned away to prevent from seeing the impact. I estimated a 3 second or less reserve ride. Shocked

I did not talk to the jumper directly but several of my friends did and this was the story;

The jumper was wearing a wrist brace due to some recent issue with his left hand. He had made a comment earlier that it was bothering him quite a bit lately and it was a little distracting.

After cutting away he found himself unable to release the reserve ripcord pillow as he was unable to get a good grip on it with the wrist brace. After several attempts he was able to release it from the velcro but his AAD fired before he pulled the cutaway. He commented to others that he was going to replace the pillow with a D handle ASAP.

I am not sure if this jumper reads or posts in the forums so I will not speculate any further but it did get me thinking... and it should probably get you thinking too.


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Oct 31, 2011, 9:34 PM
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Re: [Zymurdoo] Witnessed an AAD save and it got me thinking... [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for posting that. I'm glad that guy lived.

I wonder if he thought to cross pull with the right hand when he had trouble with his left? Might be a good tactic to keep in mind. Smile

Another good example of why I'll keep my RSL and D-ring reserve. Of course, I use an AAD too, but I never want that to fire. Wink


Zymurdoo  (D 16833)

Oct 31, 2011, 9:38 PM
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Re: [JohnMitchell] Witnessed an AAD save and it got me thinking... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I wonder if he thought to cross pull with the right hand when he had trouble with his left? Might be a good tactic to keep in mind. Smile

I plan to ask him the next time I see him (hopefully within the week).


Skybear

Oct 31, 2011, 9:41 PM
Post #4 of 42 (3088 views)
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Re: [Zymurdoo] Witnessed an AAD save and it got me thinking... [In reply to] Can't Post

Glad to hear that he is still alive and good that it makes you and some more people thinking. From my point of view the major lesson is: Unless you are 100% physically and mentally fit to skydive, don't do it. You must be able to make decisions and operate your gear properly even when the whole skydive is totally fucked up or you are dead. As many people here in this forum say: AADs are backup devices only and we should never rely on them. A rule which the jumper clearly had in mind.

Once more: Glad to read that he is still here. Now let 's learn this little lesson together.


diablopilot  (D License)

Oct 31, 2011, 9:43 PM
Post #5 of 42 (3086 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] Witnessed an AAD save and it got me thinking... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Thanks for posting that. I'm glad that guy lived.

I wonder if he thought to cross pull with the right hand when he had trouble with his left? Might be a good tactic to keep in mind. Smile

Another good example of why I'll keep my RSL and D-ring reserve. Of course, I use an AAD too, but I never want that to fire. Wink

One reason I practice a cross pull on every ride to altitude in addition to normal handle checks.


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Oct 31, 2011, 10:01 PM
Post #6 of 42 (3067 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] Witnessed an AAD save and it got me thinking... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
One reason I practice a cross pull on every ride to altitude in addition to normal handle checks.
Schmart!Cool I might add that to my repertoire.


dks13827  (C 9293)

Oct 31, 2011, 10:08 PM
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Witnessed an AAD save and it got me thinking... [In reply to] Can't Post

"Another good example of why I'll keep my RSL and D-ring reserve. Of course, I use an AAD too, but I never want that to fire. "

+10 !!!

Damn close call of another guy who didnt need no stinking RSL ! or did he ? Glad it ended well.


piisfish

Nov 1, 2011, 1:32 AM
Post #8 of 42 (2999 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] Witnessed an AAD save and it got me thinking... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Of course, I use an AAD too, but I never want that to fire. unless it HAS toWink
FIFY Smile

I don't want my AAD's to fire either, but sometimes they have to. I am glad it did fire whe it did.


captain_stan

Nov 1, 2011, 11:13 AM
Post #9 of 42 (2805 views)
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Re: [Zymurdoo] Witnessed an AAD save and it got me thinking... [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I estimated a 3 second or less reserve ride. Shocked

Yikes! Fortunate to have survived the reserve landing, obviously in an unobstructed area. Imagine how this could be affected by obstacles, uneven terrain, or tall trees nearby. It makes an RSL look like a good idea; I want the highest probability of being able to steer and flare before landing.


piisfish

Nov 1, 2011, 11:42 AM
Post #10 of 42 (2773 views)
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Re: [Zymurdoo] Witnessed an AAD save and it got me thinking... [In reply to] Can't Post

do we know what gear was used, and any supposition of why the reserve ride was so short ?


Zymurdoo  (D 16833)

Nov 1, 2011, 12:09 PM
Post #11 of 42 (2747 views)
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Re: [piisfish] Witnessed an AAD save and it got me thinking... [In reply to] Can't Post

I will be back in Eloy Thursday and will try to get some followup info posted.


demoknite  (D License)

Nov 1, 2011, 12:11 PM
Post #12 of 42 (2747 views)
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Re: [Skybear] Witnessed an AAD save and it got me thinking... [In reply to] Can't Post

Not to invoke military all the time, but the guy wouldnt have been allowed to jump with a wrist injury much less wearing a brace. if you arent 100% its time to sit.


castle_bravo  (C License)

Nov 1, 2011, 3:00 PM
Post #13 of 42 (2663 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] Witnessed an AAD save and it got me thinking... [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:

I wonder if he thought to cross pull with the right hand when he had trouble with his left? Might be a good tactic to keep in mind.

+1 . Had a pcit once, cross-pulled silver with right hand(can't tell why, guess cause I'm right-handed), no stability loss or anything(pity reserve failed to deploy though :P ).


(This post was edited by castle_bravo on Nov 1, 2011, 3:06 PM)


Trae  (Student)

Nov 1, 2011, 3:37 PM
Post #14 of 42 (2638 views)
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Re: [demoknite] Witnessed an AAD save and it got me thinking... [In reply to] Can't Post

in reply to "Not to invoke military all the time, but the guy wouldnt have been allowed to jump with a wrist injury much less wearing a brace. if you arent 100% its time to sit. "
......................................................

Perhaps we all should be hearing MORE ivokations from the military.... the experts of risk managment.
Like you say the miltary would have stopped this incident before it happened.


DBCOOPER  (D 24112)

Nov 1, 2011, 6:12 PM
Post #15 of 42 (2562 views)
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Re: [Trae] Witnessed an AAD save and it got me thinking... [In reply to] Can't Post

RSL...


mark  (D 6108)

Nov 1, 2011, 8:21 PM
Post #16 of 42 (2490 views)
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Re: [DBCOOPER] Witnessed an AAD save and it got me thinking... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
RSL...

An RSL would have been helpful in this case, but it is not a substitute for being able to pull.

Mark


potatoman  (Student)

Nov 2, 2011, 4:28 AM
Post #17 of 42 (2328 views)
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Re: [castle_bravo] Witnessed an AAD save and it got me thinking... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:

I wonder if he thought to cross pull with the right hand when he had trouble with his left? Might be a good tactic to keep in mind.

+1 . Had a pcit once, cross-pulled silver with right hand(can't tell why, guess cause I'm right-handed), no stability loss or anything(pity reserve failed to deploy though :P ).

What happened here. Did the pcit pull the main? WHat was wrong with the reserve?


castle_bravo  (C License)

Nov 2, 2011, 4:41 AM
Post #18 of 42 (2318 views)
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Re: [potatoman] Witnessed an AAD save and it got me thinking... [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
What happened here. Did the pcit pull the main? WHat was wrong with the reserve?



There:

http://www.dropzone.com/...20nightmare;#3964242


nbblood  (D 26355)

Nov 2, 2011, 12:02 PM
Post #19 of 42 (2197 views)
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Re: [Trae] Witnessed an AAD save and it got me thinking... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
in reply to "Not to invoke military all the time, but the guy wouldnt have been allowed to jump with a wrist injury much less wearing a brace. if you arent 100% its time to sit. "
......................................................

Perhaps we all should be hearing MORE ivokations from the military.... the experts of risk managment.
Like you say the miltary would have stopped this incident before it happened.

Perhaps, but...... it is entirely possible to leave the plane 100% healthy and become incapacitated due to a collision with the plane or another skydiver or, or, or.......

It is still worthwhile to think through the situation. If one hand is incapacitated being prepared to cross-pull can make the difference.

So there's two forms of mitagation here, 1. sitting out if not physically capable, 2. preparing for situations with contingency training/thinking. Both are good forms of mitigation.


Freeflaw  (C License)

Nov 2, 2011, 2:21 PM
Post #20 of 42 (2127 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] Witnessed an AAD save and it got me thinking... [In reply to] Can't Post

i recently got scolded by a very experienced doucher about breaking free of the conventional one hand per handle or the look red grab red look silver punch red grab silver punch method....after all who needs to ever learn to find his handle by touch alone or be able to alternate between different methods?


lifesatrip  (C 3136)

Nov 5, 2011, 5:46 AM
Post #21 of 42 (1917 views)
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Re: [Freeflaw] Witnessed an AAD save and it got me thinking... [In reply to] Can't Post

You never know what can happen on a jump. I personally have broken a finger on a jump. This is why I just with double D's.


Ron

Nov 7, 2011, 3:43 PM
Post #22 of 42 (1737 views)
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Re: [dks13827] Witnessed an AAD save and it got me thinking... [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Damn close call of another guy who didnt need no stinking RSL ! or did he ?

Well the RSL would have just replaced the AAD fire. Substitution of one dependance for another is not the answer.


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Nov 7, 2011, 4:37 PM
Post #23 of 42 (1693 views)
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Re: [Zymurdoo] Witnessed an AAD save and it got me thinking... [In reply to] Can't Post

I warned people about pillow reserve handles when they first came out for this very reason. The same thing could happen if a jumpers hands were disabled in freefall. I like the idea of being able to just get a thumb through the handle and yank.

Same goes for a hard pull. It would easily be possible for a pin to get bent enough that extraction with a ring handle would be possible but not possible with a pillow.


cocheese  (D 24000)

Nov 7, 2011, 5:25 PM
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Re: [chuckakers] Witnessed an AAD save and it got me thinking... [In reply to] Can't Post

What if the pillow had a small ring behind it that we could get a thumb or finger or two in there? I want the best of both worlds.


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Nov 7, 2011, 6:03 PM
Post #25 of 42 (1633 views)
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Re: [cocheese] Witnessed an AAD save and it got me thinking... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What if the pillow had a small ring behind it that we could get a thumb or finger or two in there? I want the best of both worlds.

Trying to get a thumb or finger(s) through a small ring while fighting a wild spinning mal would probably be a bit pf a chore.

What "best" is there with pillow handles anyway? Anti-snag? The amount of unintentional reserve pulls on ring handles across the world in the last 20 years can probably be counted on one hand.

I've been jumping for 26 years and don't personally know of a single one. On the other hand I got my cutaway handle stripped clean in freefall one day. It's a pillow handle, of course.Wink


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