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Conflicting advice from 2 S&TAs

 


psychoswooper  (D License)

Oct 31, 2011, 7:24 PM
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Conflicting advice from 2 S&TAs Can't Post

110 Jumps...Local S&TA who was also jumper's AFF I and knows jumpers complete history, skill level etc.....says" NO, you can't jump that GO-Pro just yet" First off It is mounted horribly on the side with major snag points, and besides, USPA recommends a higher experience level.....Jumper visits other well known SE FL DZ. 1st time there, first time jumping new main canopy as well. ..S&TA who just met jumper says....Since it's a Go-Pro & has now been top mounted it's OK. WTF? First time at this DZ, 1st jump on new canopy. 1st time jumping camera....what could possibly go wrong???

Why even bother trying to go by USPA recommendations?
Fuck it...do what ever the hell you want. I don't care anymore.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Oct 31, 2011, 7:53 PM
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Re: [psychoswooper] Conflicting advice from 2 S&TAs [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Why even bother trying to go by USPA recommendations?

That's the problem with a reccomendation over a requirement, it leaves it up the personal opinon of the individual. While the S&TA might be the best choice out of all the local jumpers willing to do the job, it doesn't mean that they are an expert in every area of skydiving.

A very wise S&TA at the first DZ I jumped pointed this out to me years ago. In the very early days of freeflying (also my early days of skydiving), I approached him with a question about group freefly jumps and his reply was, "I don't know, I don't even know how you guys do that freeflying stuff. Truth is, if anyone else asked me a quesiton about freeflying I would have sent them to you guys. When you ask me a question about freefying, I'm not sure where to go".

Does this other S&TA have any experience jumping a camera? Not just wearing a side-mount or GoPro, but being an actual 'camera flyer'? Do they have any camera flying experience from when they were a new jumper? There's a chance he simply doesn't undertstand the nature or scope of problems a new jumper with a camera could encounter, and therefore has a higher tolerance for it than other S&TAs who might.

The days of 'one stop shopping' when it comes to S&TAs is probably over. The most dangerous things in skydiving, like swooping, wingsuits, camera flying, and freefling are all very specific, highly technical disciplines, and a jumper with only a casual knowledge of them makes a very poor 'keeper of the keys'.

I know where I jump, there are different jumpers 'known' to be the experts in certain areas, and only one of them is an S&TA. We have a wingsuit guy, a camera flying guy, a freeflyer guy, a swooper guy, etc, and any time there's a 'call' to be made in those areas, we generally tend to refer to the local 'expert' for advice.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Nov 1, 2011, 6:04 AM
Post #3 of 12 (2208 views)
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Re: [psychoswooper] Conflicting advice from 2 S&TAs [In reply to] Can't Post

Being appointed S&TA doesn't have anything to do with actually being smart. Appointments are all too often "friends taking care of friends" with little to no consideration of actual knowledge or experience.

There are good ones and bad ones. Unfortunately, the ones looking for guidance from an S&TA are most often the least likely to know the difference.

You've touched on only one good example.


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Nov 1, 2011, 11:47 AM
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Re: [psychoswooper] Conflicting advice from 2 S&TAs [In reply to] Can't Post

People who take the more conservative advice in life tend to live longer. I think that's so they can live longer to give conservative advice.

Besides, there's a reason they don't call those little gizmos "Go-Noobie".WinkShocked


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Nov 1, 2011, 2:14 PM
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Re: [psychoswooper] Conflicting advice from 2 S&TAs [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm assuming you're from DZ #1 (the DZ that said no!) in this scenario? If so, the upside here is that when the shit hits the fan, it'll probably be at the DZ that said "Ya, go ahead... it's all good!" Unsure

If these guys go around "shopping" for a DZ to kill them selfs at, all you can do is make sure it isn't yours. Cool


psychoswooper  (D License)

Nov 1, 2011, 4:16 PM
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Re: [skyjumpenfool] Conflicting advice from 2 S&TAs [In reply to] Can't Post

 
If these guys go around "shopping" for a DZ to kill them selfs at, all you can do is make sure it isn't yours. Cool
I don't think this young jumper was "shopping" for a DZ to say "yes" and I don't fault him at all. I think he may have thought that the only issue was the original side-mounting of the camera and, having changed that, was smart enough to seek out the advice of the S&TA.

My concern is about the S&TA who did not know enough about this jumper's background (which was trouble free- but there was no way for the S&TA to know that) to give him a pass on starting earlier than the USPA recommends without so much as a phone call to the jumpers home DZ. I wonder if he was asked "how many jumps on your present canopy?" for example. Or "Have you ever had a cut-a-way?" It seems as if the S&TA him/herself may not have been very well informed, because frankly . "It's a Go-Pro and it's top mounted so it will be OK." sounds more like something that would be said by somebody with much less experience and knowledge of past accidents regarding cameras than I would expect an S&TA to have.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Nov 2, 2011, 5:53 AM
Post #7 of 12 (1798 views)
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Re: [psychoswooper] Conflicting advice from 2 S&TAs [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
"It's a Go-Pro and it's top mounted so it will be OK." sounds more like something that would be said by somebody with much less experience and knowledge of past accidents regarding cameras than I would expect an S&TA to have.

IMO, you would be correct on all fronts.


johnny1488  (D 25453)

Nov 9, 2011, 8:52 AM
Post #8 of 12 (1538 views)
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Re: [psychoswooper] Conflicting advice from 2 S&TAs [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, what could go wrong with an inexperienced jumper wearing a camera besides a snag?

http://www.dropzone.com/...d%3Bguest%3D82134154


raff

Nov 15, 2011, 8:10 PM
Post #9 of 12 (1339 views)
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Re: [psychoswooper] Conflicting advice from 2 S&TAs [In reply to] Can't Post

....sounds more like something that would be said by somebody with much less experience and knowledge of past accidents regarding cameras than I would expect an S&TA to have.
One of the problems with posts such as yours, is that it is clear the "smart" S&TA is one who shares your views, and the "dumb" S&TA does or may not. You seem to live in a world of absolutes from which there can be no deviation. In your first jump course, you were told to "flare at [fill in the blank] feet." In fact, you have NEVER flared at that altitude as that number varies every single time you jump. Beginners need an absolute as a point of departure, but one would hope that accumulating information, including differences of opinion, gives the beginner a volume of information with which he/she can make an informed decision.

The only advice I usually offer a newbie, is to beware of those who are too fond of "always" and "never."


Ron

Nov 16, 2011, 12:46 PM
Post #10 of 12 (1274 views)
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Re: [raff] Conflicting advice from 2 S&TAs [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
The only advice I usually offer a newbie, is to beware of those who are too fond of "always" and "never."

OK but most people consider it bad advice to jump a camera with less then 200 jumps. The USPA for one.


ufk22  (D 16168)

Nov 17, 2011, 10:29 AM
Post #11 of 12 (1186 views)
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Re: [psychoswooper] Conflicting advice from 2 S&TAs [In reply to] Can't Post

S&TA is an appointed position.
This is not a rating that has to be earned.
In some cases the appointment IS earned, in a lot of cases it's not.


psychoswooper  (D License)

Nov 18, 2011, 8:06 AM
Post #12 of 12 (1094 views)
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Re: [raff] Conflicting advice from 2 S&TAs [In reply to] Can't Post

Hmmm, I see neither the word "never" nor "always" in either of my posts.....In fact I even make a reference to "giving a pass" meaning that sometimes (there's a word I bet you like!) there is room for flexibility IF a full knowledge of the jumpers background, skills, etc. are well known which was not the case in this instance.



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