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Glide ratio when flocking

 

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kallend  (D 23151)

Oct 30, 2011, 10:54 AM
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Glide ratio when flocking Can't Post

I finally downloaded my Flysight data collected since July. All but 2 of the flocks I have been in (led by a variety of people including some "names") had glide ratios around 1:1

The only exceptions were jumps I made with Simon Repton and Brian Smarr, where we exceeded 2:1 over much of the jump.

Just curious, why do most flock leaders setup such steep glides?


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Oct 30, 2011, 11:26 AM
Post #2 of 120 (2313 views)
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Re: [kallend] Glide ratio when flocking [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I finally downloaded my Flysight data collected since July. All but 2 of the flocks I have been in (led by a variety of people including some "names") had glide ratios around 1:1

The only exceptions were jumps I made with Simon Repton and Brian Smarr, where we exceeded 2:1 over much of the jump.

Just curious, why do most flock leaders setup such steep glides?



Base flyers tend to fly slower so that everyone can get there. It takes effort and skill to gradually build the speed, and if the goal is for everyone to "get there" then it takes some strategy in laying out the flock. If the base starts at near full speed, it's difficult for the rest of the load to get there, so it has to start slower and then build.
The tendency to put large guys in large suits isn't always a good choice, even tho it's easy because you know they'll "stay down." Get a base like Dave Patterson who understands how to start slow and gradually build it to almost full speed. This is where some guys get the feeling of "rocking it out and speeding like mad" on breakoff, because they're only flying 20% of wha they can actually do. Try flying a flock at 75%, and you won't see the "mad performance" at breakoff.

Some of it is that the really fat guys are put in as base, and theycan't sustain altitude without more speed.

Build flocks to build skill vs making them slow/easy, you'll see faster flocks and better wingsuiters.

Or...because others in the formation wear weights? SlyCuz the organizers can't spot?Tongue
Come west, you'll see we tend to fly a little faster and less steep.


piisfish

Oct 30, 2011, 11:29 AM
Post #3 of 120 (2311 views)
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Re: [kallend] Glide ratio when flocking [In reply to] Can't Post

IMO it is the problem of "levelling for the slowest". As I like most, is when the "weakest" is already very good/fast. Full speed flocks are great Smile


Premier LouDiamond  (D 25931)
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Oct 30, 2011, 11:48 AM
Post #4 of 120 (2302 views)
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Re: [piisfish] Glide ratio when flocking [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
IMO it is the problem of "levelling for the slowest". As I like most, is when the "weakest" is already very good/fast. Full speed flocks are great Smile


Very true. A few jumps with the Finns is all thats is needed to see this in action.


LukeH  (D License)

Oct 30, 2011, 12:33 PM
Post #5 of 120 (2282 views)
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Re: [kallend] Glide ratio when flocking [In reply to] Can't Post

What was the average vertical speed before breakoff?

Was the base a low experience jumper? There is a tendency in some places to put the least experienced guy as the base and have everyone else fly to them.


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Oct 31, 2011, 2:52 AM
Post #6 of 120 (2194 views)
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Re: [kallend] Glide ratio when flocking [In reply to] Can't Post

We usually go around 100km/h vertical and medium forward speed.


piisfish

Oct 31, 2011, 3:03 AM
Post #7 of 120 (2191 views)
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Re: [LouDiamond] Glide ratio when flocking [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
IMO it is the problem of "levelling for the slowest". As I like most, is when the "weakest" is already very good/fast. Full speed flocks are great Smile
Very true. A few jumps with the Finns is all thats is needed to see this in action.
fuck the Finns Smile

for the Sion Airshow (26 way with lots of Phantoms) we were around 90km/h vertical, and pretty high horizontal speed). That was cool Smile


mccordia  (D 94775)

Oct 31, 2011, 3:49 AM
Post #8 of 120 (2184 views)
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Re: [phoenixlpr] Glide ratio when flocking [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
We usually go around 100km/h vertical and medium forward speed.

The jump where you flew base in Hungary was 85 MPH down at only a 1.2 Glide.
The jump after, where Grisha flew base on his back was 56 mph with a 1.9 glide. I say the Hungarians got the Finish beat by a large margin.TongueWink

Ive seen a lot of nice stuff (also from Fins) at boogies around EU, but the stuff constantly refered to from Cochsted '08 seemed to mostly be long stretched out flocks, with a base flying ballistic speeds, with only a few people barely reaching their slot, and most (including the camera) chasing far behind. If there is any video I missed during debriefs, Id love to finally see it online Scott. As it's talked about by you so much, without ever showing.

There is a happy intermediate between ludicrous speed and freefalling...but its often hard to set, and keep everyone happy at the same time.


piisfish

Oct 31, 2011, 4:00 AM
Post #9 of 120 (2180 views)
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Re: [mccordia] Glide ratio when flocking [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
There is a happy intermediate between ludicrous speed and freefalling...but its often hard to set, and keep everyone happy at the same time.
There is a need to find a good leader (who can hold a vertical and horizontal speed) (you have one, I have one Tongue), then people who would say out loud what he needs (that's what I do) and also ask other people what their needs are, and then you have a good recipe to do some "powerflocking".

Also there is no need to "weed out" younger jumpers too early, just need to be sure they will fly safe and try their best to fly 110%. After first try(s), cut the people who cannot hold their slots/keep up with the rythm. But still organize "lower performance" jumps for them to get them better and better, and have them someday join the "fastflock" again.


aerodynamite  (D 2837)

Oct 31, 2011, 6:48 AM
Post #10 of 120 (2144 views)
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Re: [phoenixlpr] Glide ratio when flocking [In reply to] Can't Post

Gabor... We have different readings when you are 500 meters under our formation Tongue


Butters  (C 37840)

Oct 31, 2011, 6:48 AM
Post #11 of 120 (2144 views)
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Re: [kallend] Glide ratio when flocking [In reply to] Can't Post

First, flocks with glide ratios of 1 to 1 can be fun if they're fast. Second, looks like I was right about larger suits, larger flocks, but the same performance ... Cool


kallend  (D 23151)

Oct 31, 2011, 7:59 AM
Post #12 of 120 (2116 views)
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Re: [Butters] Glide ratio when flocking [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
First, flocks with glide ratios of 1 to 1 can be fun if they're fast. Second, looks like I was right about larger suits, larger flocks, but the same performance ... Cool

No it doesn't. Illogical conclusion on your partCool


(This post was edited by kallend on Oct 31, 2011, 8:00 AM)


kallend  (D 23151)

Oct 31, 2011, 8:03 AM
Post #13 of 120 (2106 views)
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Re: [LukeH] Glide ratio when flocking [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What was the average vertical speed before breakoff?

Which ones? the 1:1 or the >2:1 jumps.

In reply to:

Was the base a low experience jumper? There is a tendency in some places to put the least experienced guy as the base and have everyone else fly to them.

As I wrote in the OP, some of the leaders have been well known "names" in the community.


kallend  (D 23151)

Oct 31, 2011, 8:07 AM
Post #14 of 120 (2098 views)
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Re: [mccordia] Glide ratio when flocking [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
We usually go around 100km/h vertical and medium forward speed.

The jump where you flew base in Hungary was 85 MPH down at only a 1.2 Glide.

That is no better than can be achieved by a good tracker in a RW suit.
http://www.dropzone.com/...atest_reply;#2767312


mccordia  (D 94775)

Oct 31, 2011, 8:09 AM
Post #15 of 120 (2094 views)
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Re: [kallend] Glide ratio when flocking [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
That is no better than can be achieved by a good tracker in a RW suit.

Yea...thats why we switched base, and put a small suit up frontTongue


Butters  (C 37840)

Oct 31, 2011, 8:13 AM
Post #16 of 120 (2091 views)
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Re: [kallend] Glide ratio when flocking [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
First, flocks with glide ratios of 1 to 1 can be fun if they're fast. Second, looks like I was right about larger suits, larger flocks, but the same performance ... Cool

No it doesn't. Illogical conclusion on your partCool

Blah, blah, blah ... go fly a large wingsuit so you don't go low (because you don't know how to get back up), add weight so you don't stay high (because you don't know how to get down), and belly fly (because you can't backfly).


Butters  (C 37840)

Oct 31, 2011, 8:14 AM
Post #17 of 120 (2089 views)
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Re: [kallend] Glide ratio when flocking [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Quote:
We usually go around 100km/h vertical and medium forward speed.

The jump where you flew base in Hungary was 85 MPH down at only a 1.2 Glide.

That is no better than can be achieved by a good tracker in a RW suit.
http://www.dropzone.com/...atest_reply;#2767312

And yet you wear a large wingsuit with weight instead of your RW suit on those jumps ... Laugh


kallend  (D 23151)

Oct 31, 2011, 8:14 AM
Post #18 of 120 (2089 views)
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Re: [Butters] Glide ratio when flocking [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
First, flocks with glide ratios of 1 to 1 can be fun if they're fast. Second, looks like I was right about larger suits, larger flocks, but the same performance ... Cool

No it doesn't. Illogical conclusion on your partCool

Blah, blah, blah ... go fly a large wingsuit so you don't go low (because you don't know how to get back up), add weight so you don't stay high (because you don't know how to get down), and belly fly (because you can't backfly).

<yawn>


mccordia  (D 94775)

Oct 31, 2011, 8:20 AM
Post #19 of 120 (2083 views)
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Re: [kallend] Glide ratio when flocking [In reply to] Can't Post

Could you quote less of previous posts...makes it easier to skip the non-answers you typically post..Tongue


kallend  (D 23151)

Oct 31, 2011, 8:21 AM
Post #20 of 120 (2081 views)
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Re: [Butters] Glide ratio when flocking [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Quote:
We usually go around 100km/h vertical and medium forward speed.

The jump where you flew base in Hungary was 85 MPH down at only a 1.2 Glide.

That is no better than can be achieved by a good tracker in a RW suit.
http://www.dropzone.com/...atest_reply;#2767312

And yet you wear a large wingsuit with weight instead of your RW suit on those jumps ... Laugh

<yawn>


kallend  (D 23151)

Oct 31, 2011, 8:22 AM
Post #21 of 120 (2078 views)
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Re: [mccordia] Glide ratio when flocking [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Could you quote less of previous posts...makes it easier to skip the non-answers you typically post..Tongue

How about refraining from taking cheap pot shots for a change?


kallend  (D 23151)

Oct 31, 2011, 8:22 AM
Post #22 of 120 (2076 views)
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Re: [mccordia] Glide ratio when flocking [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
That is no better than can be achieved by a good tracker in a RW suit.

Yea...thats why we switched base, and put a small suit up frontTongue
<yawn>


kallend  (D 23151)

Oct 31, 2011, 8:24 AM
Post #23 of 120 (2073 views)
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Re: [phoenixlpr] Glide ratio when flocking [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
We usually go around 100km/h vertical and medium forward speed.

"Medium" being what? 110-120km/h?


mccordia  (D 94775)

Oct 31, 2011, 8:28 AM
Post #24 of 120 (2068 views)
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Re: [kallend] Glide ratio when flocking [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
How about refraining from taking cheap pot shots for a change?

Like you do with your Yawns?
You hate Butters/Tony and follow him around on this forum like a scary stalker with discussions that never have answers, and selective quotes.

My post wasnt a cheap shot. It was an actual suggestion to not waste 500 quoted characters on a post where all you add is <yawn>.


kallend  (D 23151)

Oct 31, 2011, 9:16 AM
Post #25 of 120 (2039 views)
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Re: [mccordia] Glide ratio when flocking [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
How about refraining from taking cheap pot shots for a change?

Like you do with your Yawns?
You hate Butters/Tony and follow him around on this forum like a scary stalker with discussions that never have answers, and selective quotes.

My post wasnt a cheap shot. It was an actual suggestion to not waste 500 quoted characters on a post where all you add is <yawn>.

Your and Butters' repeated negative comments about my ability to fly a wingsuit, such as

Quote:
go fly a large wingsuit so you don't go low (because you don't know how to get back up), add weight so you don't stay high (because you don't know how to get down), and belly fly (because you can't backfly).

say rather more about you and him than about me.


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