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AFF loops and flips- noob question

 

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Namowal  (A 63059)

Oct 25, 2011, 12:25 PM
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AFF loops and flips- noob question Can't Post

As I've plowed my way through weekly AFF lessons, it suddenly hit me that I'm only few lessons away from dives involving sit flying, flips and barrel rolls. These sound intimidating! Shocked (Well, I'm a bit of a chicken)
How difficult are they to master? (I'd opt to practice them in the tunnel, but with the exception of sit flying, it sounds like a good way to smack into the wall!) Anything I can do on the ground to prepare for them?


As always, I'll run any advice I get by my instructors, just in case.


BIGUN  (D 23385)

Oct 25, 2011, 1:02 PM
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Re: [Namowal] AFF loops and flips- noob question [In reply to] Can't Post

The techniques your Instructors teach you will suffice in getting you through it.
I might suggest that you don't start over- amping about something that you will come to find there was no reason to over-amp about.


pchapman  (D 1014)

Oct 25, 2011, 1:10 PM
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What do we care? Whatever happens, we'll get a cool cartoon out of it.Smile

As usual, once you learn the techniques your instructors want you to use, then you can start practicing on the ground to become familiar with the movements.

In the early stages it isn't so much about whether you can do a nice barrel roll or backloop, but whether you can attempt one and then get back nice and stable no matter how the attempt went. That's what's important in progressing you from being with an AFF instructor to doing solo jumps or jumps with coaches.

So the important things are the basics like countering unwanted turns, trusting in a good arch if not belly to earth (rather than flailing at the air), and maybe the roll out of bed technique (IF that's what your instructors teach for dealing with ending up on one's back during roll or loop attempts).


hookitt  (D License)

Oct 25, 2011, 1:11 PM
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Re: [Namowal] AFF loops and flips- noob question [In reply to] Can't Post

The flips aren't for style points when you're going through AFF. They are to determine you can maintain or quickly regain control after going "unstable"

Don't sweat it. They're easy.


wildcard451  (D License)

Oct 25, 2011, 2:45 PM
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Re: [Namowal] AFF loops and flips- noob question [In reply to] Can't Post

Here's a helpful hint.

Just go do it.

Like others said, you're not getting graded on style. You're purposely leaving your stable belly and making sure you can get back. Flipping over is just a fun way to learn that.

You'll be surprised how much cooler you feel once you realize you can, unlike a poor turtle, flip yourself back over off your back.

Think about it less, and just go have fun, using the techniques your instructors show you.


Southern_Man  (C License)

Oct 25, 2011, 3:12 PM
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Re: [wildcard451] AFF loops and flips- noob question [In reply to] Can't Post

Funnest AFF jump in the whole progression, IMHO.


kimemerson  (D 13439)

Oct 25, 2011, 3:37 PM
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Re: [Namowal] AFF loops and flips- noob question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
As I've plowed my way through weekly AFF lessons, it suddenly hit me that I'm only few lessons away from dives involving sit flying, flips and barrel rolls. These sound intimidating! Shocked (Well, I'm a bit of a chicken)
How difficult are they to master? (I'd opt to practice them in the tunnel, but with the exception of sit flying, it sounds like a good way to smack into the wall!) Anything I can do on the ground to prepare for them?


As always, I'll run any advice I get by my instructors, just in case.

Sit flying? In AFF? Must be new.

The whole presumed point of these (flips or barrel rolls) is to see if you can handle leaving the comfort of belly-to-earth and recover in order to deploy. When I teach these levels I purposely do not teach how to do a flip or a barrel roll. I teach what to do if it doesn't go well and the student ends up on their back. Because if I teach a perfect front flip, say, and the student actually pulls it off perfectly, then what, as an Instructor, have I seen that helps me evaluate the student's ability to get off their back? Nothing.

And once you have done one or two, even imperfect ones, you'll love them and learn that it's nothing to worry about, but is actually just more fun to have.


pchapman  (D 1014)

Oct 25, 2011, 3:42 PM
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Re: [kimemerson] AFF loops and flips- noob question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Sit flying? In AFF? Must be new.

Smile
A back to the wind exit, 'sit' exit, I presume. (Though I don't know the US AFF levels in detail.)


Namowal  (A 63059)

Oct 25, 2011, 5:06 PM
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Re: [pchapman] AFF loops and flips- noob question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Sit flying? In AFF? Must be new.

Smile
A back to the wind exit, 'sit' exit, I presume. (Though I don't know the US AFF levels in detail.)

Yes, that sounds more like it. I don't think they expect us to stay upright so soon in the game. It's probably a "start in a less-stable position and flip into a more stable position (belly down) thing.


ghost47  (A License)

Oct 25, 2011, 6:58 PM
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Re: [kimemerson] AFF loops and flips- noob question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Sit flying? In AFF? Must be new.
Back when I went through AFF at Elsinore, they showed you a video clip of what each level was supposed to look like. For AFF 7, they had a guy jump out in a sit, which he held for several seconds, before transitioning to his belly.

When I was going over the diveflow with my instructor, he told me there was no way I was going to be able to hold a sit, and the point was to have me tumble and then recover. I remember secretly thinking I had a chance of pulling it off --- it didn't look that hard, the guy just jumped out, put himself in a sitting position, and had his arms out.

Needless to say, I tumbled almost immediately, but then went into a stable, belly-to-earth arch.


kimemerson  (D 13439)

Oct 26, 2011, 2:29 AM
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Re: [ghost47] AFF loops and flips- noob question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Sit flying? In AFF? Must be new.
Back when I went through AFF at Elsinore, they showed you a video clip of what each level was supposed to look like. For AFF 7, they had a guy jump out in a sit, which he held for several seconds, before transitioning to his belly.

When I was going over the diveflow with my instructor, he told me there was no way I was going to be able to hold a sit, and the point was to have me tumble and then recover. I remember secretly thinking I had a chance of pulling it off --- it didn't look that hard, the guy just jumped out, put himself in a sitting position, and had his arms out.

Needless to say, I tumbled almost immediately, but then went into a stable, belly-to-earth arch.

Which sounds like what I was saying about why I don't really teach the flips or for that matter a decent diving exit. I let the student flail and get on their backs. So using a sit-fly exit is an ideal way to see a student get on their backs (I hesitate to use the term "unstable" because I've seen hundreds of very stable skydives in any configuration. Unstable has no relation to body position so much as it has to do with how that position is handled). So I like this, using a sit-fly exit in AFF, knowing it'll never succeed... unless it does. It just isn't an official USPA teaching method. But it's beautiful now that I understand what we've been talking about. I may try it with a student myself one day. Hmmmm.... got me thinking.....


JohnRich  (D License)

Oct 26, 2011, 8:32 AM
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Re: [Namowal] AFF loops and flips- noob question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'm only few lessons away from dives involving sit flying, flips and barrel rolls. How difficult are they to master? (I'd opt to practice them in the tunnel, but with the exception of sit flying, it sounds like a good way to smack into the wall!) Anything I can do on the ground to prepare for them?

General question: Is a swimming pool a good way to practice flips and rolls? Does the medium of water, instead of air, produce the same results for the given body movements?


MikeJD  (D 10605)

Oct 26, 2011, 10:33 AM
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Re: [JohnRich] AFF loops and flips- noob question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
General question: Is a swimming pool a good way to practice flips and rolls? Does the medium of water, instead of air, produce the same results for the given body movements?

For flips (which I think are what I'd call 'backloops') - and to a lesser extent barrel rolls - I'd say it probably is a reasonable place to practise. Unlike the more common skydiving techniques where you're relying on deflecting air moving past your body, it seems like these are more gymnastic maneouvres where you're 'throwing' your body and then pushing against the 'stiffened' air in much the same way as you do against water resistance.

Be interested to hear others' take on it.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Oct 26, 2011, 10:54 AM
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Re: [JohnRich] AFF loops and flips- noob question [In reply to] Can't Post

A swimming pool is a good place to practice back loops. You just need to use more arm muscle to complete the loop.
Back-looping in water requires quickly pushing down with your arms to develop sufficient momentum to rotate all the way around.
Back-loops in water are more like the technique used by aggressive (world championship level) style competitors.


Namowal  (A 63059)

Nov 1, 2011, 12:27 PM
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Re: [pchapman] AFF loops and flips- noob question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What do we care? Whatever happens, we'll get a cool cartoon out of it.Smile
Thanks.Blush
In reply to:
In the early stages it isn't so much about whether you can do a nice barrel roll or backloop, but whether you can attempt one and then get back nice and stable no matter how the attempt went. That's what's important in progressing you from being with an AFF instructor to doing solo jumps or jumps with coaches.

So the important things are the basics like countering unwanted turns, trusting in a good arch if not belly to earth (rather than flailing at the air), and maybe the roll out of bed technique (IF that's what your instructors teach for dealing with ending up on one's back during roll or loop attempts).
Since I posted the original question I did level 6 and found myself on my back right after exit (d'oh!) I remembered you could roll by bringing one arm in and soon returned to the correct position. I remember thinking, gosh, that wasn't hard at all. Now I'm looking forward to level 7!


Marinus

Nov 1, 2011, 12:47 PM
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Re: [Namowal] AFF loops and flips- noob question [In reply to] Can't Post

Congratulations! Smile Is level 7 the last level?


ShcShc11  (A 15638)

Nov 1, 2011, 1:07 PM
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Re: [Namowal] AFF loops and flips- noob question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
As I've plowed my way through weekly AFF lessons, it suddenly hit me that I'm only few lessons away from dives involving sit flying, flips and barrel rolls. These sound intimidating! Shocked (Well, I'm a bit of a chicken)
How difficult are they to master? (I'd opt to practice them in the tunnel, but with the exception of sit flying, it sounds like a good way to smack into the wall!) Anything I can do on the ground to prepare for them?


As always, I'll run any advice I get by my instructors, just in case.


Sit flying? I don't think there's sit flying in AFF (at least I haven't done any).

The thing that I find scary about flips is to watch your instructor doing it in front of you. Its kind of like a "oh shi.. I'm supposed to do THAT?"

Once you do it though, its like "oh, it wasn't so bad".
I prefer barrel rolls when wanting something more conservative.

Gl! Make more cartoons please. Wink Tongue


Its level 7 then 2 (completely) solo dives then emergency 5,000 feet exit then exam dive right?
...ohh and the absolute best moment in AFF imo is when you finish the the 2 solo dives.


(This post was edited by ShcShc11 on Nov 1, 2011, 5:28 PM)


OhioDreamsChris  (A License)

Nov 1, 2011, 1:09 PM
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Re: [Marinus] AFF loops and flips- noob question [In reply to] Can't Post

When i did backflips, front and barrel rolls is when i finally said to myself ok...i got this. Figuring out that you can get unstable and then become re-stable was a huge confidence booster for me... I have lots of flipping experience so it was rather easy for me but still a huge boost. Also in my aff program we do 2 sitfly's as part of our requirements. So fun to learn!!!!


Namowal  (A 63059)

Nov 1, 2011, 7:15 PM
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Re: [Marinus] AFF loops and flips- noob question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Congratulations! Smile Is level 7 the last level?

The AFF classes I'm taking have level 8 as the last one, so there's two more for me to conquer.

Quote:
Sit flying? I don't think there's sit flying in AFF (at least I haven't done any).
The Flash animated tutorial shows the character exiting in the sitting position (and holding it), but the videos I've seen of students doing the jumps pretty much have them tumbling around until they stabilize with an arch.

Quote:
Its level 7 then 2 (completely) solo dives then emergency 5,000 feet exit then exam dive right?
...ohh and the absolute best moment in AFF imo is when you finish the the 2 solo dives.
I believe the solo dives start after level 8, as does the hop and pop. Smile


spikes2020  (A 254590)

Nov 2, 2011, 5:33 AM
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Re: [Namowal] AFF loops and flips- noob question [In reply to] Can't Post

the hop and pops was the scariest thing for me. 3,500 ft looks so big when your use to 13,500~


MikeJD  (D 10605)

Nov 2, 2011, 2:34 PM
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Re: [spikes2020] AFF loops and flips- noob question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
the hop and pops was the scariest thing for me.

Also a good confidence builder. Wink When yo

Hell, back in the day we used to do linked launches from 3.5 and turn a couple of points before break off. And of course to the generation of skydivers before that we were pussies for not launching from 2.5. Laugh


leandercool  (Student)

Nov 7, 2011, 10:45 PM
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Re: [Namowal] AFF loops and flips- noob question [In reply to] Can't Post

Actually these rolls you have to do are just to get you unstable to see how you react and how fast you regain controll. Don't worry, as long as you do anything that looks like what you're suppose to do it's OK. But it's always more fun to complete a flip or roll though ;)


Abedy  (D 10153)

Nov 8, 2011, 9:29 AM
Post #23 of 29 (2065 views)
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Re: [Namowal] AFF loops and flips- noob question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I remembered you could roll by bringing one arm in and soon returned to the correct position. I remember thinking, gosh, that wasn't hard at all.
Nice to hear. And that it is what "unstable exit" and "rolls/flips" are mainly thought for: To show you regain stability pretty fast, instinctively at best. After some jumps you can/should trust your body - it will do the right thing almost without you deliberately thinking "Oh, I'm on my back, now I gotta do... humm..." but simply registering: "Ah, belly-to-earth again, nice!" Sounds you reached that stage, great!
BTW: Looking forward to your next cartoons. I'm collecting duck stuff (figurines mainly) so I really appreciate skydiving duck stories. One day they might even make it into a book Cool


Namowal  (A 63059)

Nov 8, 2011, 12:12 PM
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Re: [Abedy] AFF loops and flips- noob question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
BTW: Looking forward to your next cartoons. I'm collecting duck stuff (figurines mainly) so I really appreciate skydiving duck stories. Cool

Thanks! I'm still drawing these, but I was crunched for time recentlyCrazy so I'm still working on the cartoons for jump number six. Since posting this I've taken a crack at jump number seven- but you'll have to wait for the cartoon to find out what happened.Wink


Premier Remster  (C License)

Nov 8, 2011, 2:14 PM
Post #25 of 29 (2017 views)
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Re: [Namowal] AFF loops and flips- noob question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
BTW: Looking forward to your next cartoons. I'm collecting duck stuff (figurines mainly) so I really appreciate skydiving duck stories. Cool

Thanks! I'm still drawing these, but I was crunched for time recentlyCrazy so I'm still working on the cartoons for jump number six. Since posting this I've taken a crack at jump number seven- but you'll have to wait for the cartoon to find out what happened.Wink

I'm betting 5 bucks the duck survived... ;-)


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