Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
No skyhook option

 

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r.panfil  (A License)

Oct 13, 2011, 1:34 PM
Post #1 of 79 (2937 views)
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No skyhook option Can't Post

Hey guys, I am preparing to buy my first rig, and have been considering purchasing a wings container. While reading about the wings I realized that they do not offer a the skyhook as an option. Should this stop me from buying a wings container? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!


craigbey  (C 31991)

Oct 13, 2011, 1:40 PM
Post #2 of 79 (2920 views)
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Re: [r.panfil] No skyhook option [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Should this stop me from buying a wings container?

No.


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Oct 13, 2011, 1:48 PM
Post #3 of 79 (2907 views)
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Re: [r.panfil] No skyhook option [In reply to] Can't Post

People tend to push the Skyhook and it is a great option but don't choose a rig just on this one item. If you like everything else on a Wings and the fit is good and you are happy with the company.. order away!


(This post was edited by PhreeZone on Oct 13, 2011, 2:14 PM)


AndyMan  (D 25698)

Oct 13, 2011, 1:50 PM
Post #4 of 79 (2905 views)
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Re: [r.panfil] No skyhook option [In reply to] Can't Post

There are many rigs on the market, and the availability of the latest safety features is just one of the criteria you should be using in your evaluation.

Are you looking at other containers?

_Am


r.panfil  (A License)

Oct 13, 2011, 2:25 PM
Post #5 of 79 (2864 views)
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Re: [AndyMan] No skyhook option [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, I have looked at several other manufacturers. My biggest attraction to the wings containers are the price, and comfort.


sundevil777  (D License)

Oct 13, 2011, 2:29 PM
Post #6 of 79 (2858 views)
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Re: [r.panfil] No skyhook option [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
My biggest attraction to the wings containers are the price

They seem to have a low base price, but the base is very "basic", so a LOT of options that you will very likely want add up quick, so be sure to be looking at a realistically outfitted total.


r.panfil  (A License)

Oct 13, 2011, 2:32 PM
Post #7 of 79 (2851 views)
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Re: [sundevil777] No skyhook option [In reply to] Can't Post

I know that the base price is low, and it gets more expensive with options. As far as I know, the Icon is the only container that comes standard with all of the extras. I have researched prices (with options), and the wings containers are still much less expensive.


AndyMan  (D 25698)

Oct 13, 2011, 2:33 PM
Post #8 of 79 (2849 views)
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Re: [r.panfil] No skyhook option [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
My biggest attraction to the wings containers are the price, and comfort.

I would think safety features should be a consideration.

_Am


r.panfil  (A License)

Oct 13, 2011, 2:56 PM
Post #9 of 79 (2823 views)
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Re: [AndyMan] No skyhook option [In reply to] Can't Post

That is why i posted. As far as I know, the wings container has all of the safety features (other than the sky hook) that other containers have. Are there some safety issues that I don't know about?


sundevil777  (D License)

Oct 13, 2011, 4:22 PM
Post #10 of 79 (2759 views)
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Re: [AndyMan] No skyhook option [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
My biggest attraction to the wings containers are the price, and comfort.

I would think safety features should be a consideration.

_Am

I wouldn't get the skyhook even if it was free. I realize I'm not like most, as I also don't use my RSL. Perhaps my attitude is indicative of my years.


r.panfil  (A License)

Oct 13, 2011, 5:08 PM
Post #11 of 79 (2740 views)
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Re: [sundevil777] No skyhook option [In reply to] Can't Post

I have met a lot of ppl who dont like rsls. But i have also met a lot of people who won't jump without one. From what iv heard, the benefits outweigh the risks.


KCJumper  (C 34189)

Oct 13, 2011, 5:41 PM
Post #12 of 79 (2722 views)
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Re: [r.panfil] No skyhook option [In reply to] Can't Post

all about personal preference


MrHixxx  (D 24144)

Oct 13, 2011, 7:42 PM
Post #13 of 79 (2662 views)
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Re: [r.panfil] No skyhook option [In reply to] Can't Post

I would recommend the rsl to anyone who has not had a mal that they have dealt with above the hard deck, then you can remove it at your own discretion.

The skyhook is a great innovation, but it makes your rig more complex. That makes some of the old timers nervous. We like simple things that have been jumped hundreds of thousands of times before us...

The Vector is also made of 500 denier cordura versus a 1000 denier cordura on a Wings (heavier stuff). The Wings will take more of a beating. The Wings is a simple and tough system. The Vector is the most well R&D'd rig on the market. It will save your ass if you do everything wrong and need to cutaway low (like 200-300 ft or below where a reserve can get out on its own). However, the situations where you may need a skyhook, canopy collision or low cutaway are avoidable by good judgement when you skydive.

So, food for thought. Ultimately, all of the modern rigs on the market are very high quality and will serve you well. Some just do somethings a little better than others...

Hope this helps, Hixxx


peter.draper  (D 20135)

Oct 13, 2011, 8:30 PM
Post #14 of 79 (2639 views)
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Re: [sundevil777] No skyhook option [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I wouldn't get the skyhook even if it was free. I realize I'm not like most, as I also don't use my RSL. Perhaps my attitude is indicative of my years.

+1 (I like my freebag "free" Tongue - just sayin' - don't bother to try and convince me otherwise just go with your OWN judgement)


mchamp  (D 32129)

Oct 13, 2011, 8:55 PM
Post #15 of 79 (2632 views)
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Re: [MrHixxx] No skyhook option [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not sure whether or not the 500 denier condura vs the 1000 denier condura material is that big of a difference unless you are constantly dragging your rig across dirt and grime daily aka like dragging your rig to the dropzone from where your car is parked rather than simply carrying it.


koppel  (F License)

Oct 13, 2011, 10:23 PM
Post #16 of 79 (2605 views)
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Re: [MrHixxx] No skyhook option [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It will save your ass if you do everything wrong and need to cutaway low (like 200-300 ft or below where a reserve can get out on its own). However, the situations where you may need a skyhook, canopy collision or low cutaway are avoidable by good judgement when you skydive.

Very much agree with the statement about good judgment preventing accidents.

It is also worth considering that the Skyhook can disconnect in normal use during deployment of the reserve leaving you with a standard RSL deployment and not a quicker reserve canopy deployment.

Also please remember folks that there are a whole set of other EP's steps to consider if you are jumping with an RSL of any kind and it is not just about how it deploys the reserve. The example of a canopy collision above at 2-300 feet is where all bets are off and pray for the best.... perhaps its better to consider just deploying the reserve rather than hoping a Skyhook will work (and not disconnect on that occasion) but it is very different to f you have that same canopy collision at a couple of thousand feet and then you need to consider if the right thing to do is to disconnect the RSL/Skyhook before beginning your EP's.


In reply to:
So, food for thought. Ultimately, all of the modern rigs on the market are very high quality and will serve you well. Some just do somethings a little...

...different to others.

Wink


r.panfil  (A License)

Oct 13, 2011, 11:25 PM
Post #17 of 79 (2594 views)
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Re: [MrHixxx] No skyhook option [In reply to] Can't Post

On my first hop & pop I got unstable on deployment, and my bridle wrapped around my ankle. As a very inexperienced student spinning on my back, I was screaming my eps in my head.. As I was clearing my cutaway handle and preparing to pull silver ( I was taught locate red and silver, grab red and silver, pull right, arch, clear, pull silver, prey)I looked up and saw my reserve inflating over my head. (skyhook equipped rig). This really gave me confidence in the skyhook. I know that I should never rely on a piece of gear to save my life, but I would rather have that extra piece of insurance if (god forbid) I can't locate my reserve ripcord. I understand that certain people are anti-rsl, but (IMHO) the benefits outweigh the risks. I just want to know if it is wise for an inexperienced jumper like me to jump without a skyhook.


r.panfil  (A License)

Oct 13, 2011, 11:28 PM
Post #18 of 79 (2593 views)
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Re: [MrHixxx] No skyhook option [In reply to] Can't Post

... Also, the skyhook has been jumped hundreds of thousands of times before me Wink


Arvoitus  (D 3917)

Oct 14, 2011, 12:04 AM
Post #19 of 79 (2582 views)
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Re: [r.panfil] No skyhook option [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think the price differential is that massive. If you take Javelin Odyssey for instance, you need to add the following to the standard Wings(unless I'm mistaken on something) to make them 'equal':

SMI 909 Quilted backpad $30.00
SMI 907 Stainless steel standard $200.00
SMI 925 Cut in lateral $150.00
SMI 914 RSL $42.00
SMI 912 Collapsible pilot chute $85.00
SMI 910 Hackey handle $40.00

Total $547

Which would make the rig cost $1800 + $547 = $2347 vs. Javelin Odyssey's price of $2639.

So the total difference is about $292.

And you can get the skyhook on Javelin Odyssey if you want.


bofh  (D 13995)

Oct 14, 2011, 12:14 AM
Post #20 of 79 (2577 views)
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Re: [MrHixxx] No skyhook option [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The Vector is the most well R&D'd rig on the market. It will save your ass if you do everything wrong and need to cutaway low (like 200-300 ft or below where a reserve can get out on its own). However, the situations where you may need a skyhook, canopy collision or low cutaway are avoidable by good judgement when you skydive.

Isn't will a bit of a strong word? As others have said the skyhook doesn't always work and a standard RSL is pretty quick to get a reserve out too. During my second reserve ride the reserve's slider was coming down as I pulled the reserve handle and that was with a normal RSL.

There are pros and cons to every system. If you can't pull your reserve and the AAD fires, the pilot chute has a whole lot more fabric to move out of the way on a Vector compared to a Wings which eats time and altitude. I think more people have hit the ground after an AAD fire than have been saved by a skyhook. Correct reserve sizes helps a lot for that though.

To the original poster. If you have not had a malfunction yet, buy an RSL system of some kind. Way too many people have bounced after pulling the cut away and not finding or pulling the reserve handle.


bofh  (D 13995)

Oct 14, 2011, 12:30 AM
Post #21 of 79 (2574 views)
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Re: [Arvoitus] No skyhook option [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I don't think the price differential is that massive.

...

So the total difference is about $292.

And you can get the skyhook on Javelin Odyssey if you want.

Wings usually have one pricey option for free each month though, this month its the cut in laterals, increasing the price difference to $442. Sometimes its half the base price.

Personally I also prefer to avoid stainless steel, further increasing the price difference for me at least. I also don't care for cut in laterals, so I would wait a month and see what's free the next month. I guess my point is that "equal" is not that interesting. What's interesting is what would it cost given the options one wants.


manseman  (D License)

Oct 14, 2011, 1:14 AM
Post #22 of 79 (2565 views)
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Re: [r.panfil] No skyhook option [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
On my first hop & pop I got unstable on deployment, and my bridle wrapped around my ankle. As a very inexperienced student spinning on my back, I was screaming my eps in my head.. As I was clearing my cutaway handle and preparing to pull silver ( I was taught locate red and silver, grab red and silver, pull right, arch, clear, pull silver, prey)I looked up and saw my reserve inflating over my head. (skyhook equipped rig). This really gave me confidence in the skyhook. I know that I should never rely on a piece of gear to save my life, but I would rather have that extra piece of insurance if (god forbid) I can't locate my reserve ripcord. I understand that certain people are anti-rsl, but (IMHO) the benefits outweigh the risks. I just want to know if it is wise for an inexperienced jumper like me to jump without a skyhook.

Are you sure this was a skyhook activation at all? It sounds like this might simply have been the plain old RLS doing its thing...

Until you're experienced enough to be able to make a rational choice not to jump with some kind of RSL equipped the safe option is to get one, imo. If in doubt, get one. If not, no problem.


(This post was edited by manseman on Oct 14, 2011, 1:15 AM)


councilman24  (D 8631)

Oct 14, 2011, 7:57 AM
Post #23 of 79 (2473 views)
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Re: [r.panfil] No skyhook option [In reply to] Can't Post

Realize that and RSL and a skyhook (generic term Main Assisted Reserve Deployment or MARD) are two DIFFERENT things.

I highly recommend an RSL. I'm not a fan of any MARD's on the market. So YOU have to decide if you want a MARD. If you do you are limited in the rigs that have one available.

If a MARD isn't on your required list, pick the rig for other reasons and then if a MARD is available decide if you want it. But I do recommend getting an RSL or keeping the RSL in place where standard.


r.panfil  (A License)

Oct 14, 2011, 10:20 AM
Post #24 of 79 (2426 views)
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Re: [councilman24] No skyhook option [In reply to] Can't Post

I have heard both sides of the Mard or no mard argument. Why would you recommend the rsl over a mard?


r.panfil  (A License)

Oct 14, 2011, 10:24 AM
Post #25 of 79 (2422 views)
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Re: [manseman] No skyhook option [In reply to] Can't Post

It was my 16th jump so i wasnt too sure of nething other than my butt hole puckering.. My instructor told me that my reserve deployed very cleanly bc of the sky hook.


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