Forums: Skydiving: Skydiving History & Trivia:
Skydiving, criminal activity

 


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Oct 4, 2011, 8:02 PM
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Skydiving, criminal activity Can't Post

Recent events surrounding modified, stolen gear that resulted in an injury have me wondering when (if ever) this has previously happened in skydiving history.

Person takes modified gear from military or civilian supplier, sells it into the skydiving community as used gear, and someone is injured or killed using the stolen equipment.

I've searched the forums, and only found one related reference; some gear stolen by members of the armed forces from armed forces units.

Are there any others?


piisfish

Oct 5, 2011, 12:49 AM
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Re: [DSE] Skydiving, criminal activity [In reply to] Can't Post

Karma is a killer


JohnRich  (D License)

Oct 5, 2011, 7:06 AM
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In reply to:
Recent events surrounding modified, stolen gear that resulted in an injury have me wondering when (if ever) this has previously happened in skydiving history. Person takes modified gear from military or civilian supplier, sells it into the skydiving community as used gear, and someone is injured or killed using the stolen equipment.

I can't think of any.

The odds of having gear stolen is very low. And the odds of being injured or killed are very low. So when you put those two together, the odds of being injured or killed on stolen equipment is even more unlikely.

But it's bound to have happened somewhere along the way.

And if it has, would anyone else have even known that the equipment used was stolen? Certainly the victim isn't going to admit it. And if others knew it, they probably would have done something earlier to get the gear back to the rightful owner. So even if someone is injured on stolen gear, it is unlikely once again that anyone will know about it that would report upon it.


(This post was edited by JohnRich on Oct 5, 2011, 7:11 AM)


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Oct 5, 2011, 10:45 AM
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Circa 1980, Crown Assets Disposal (Canada) and the U.S. military quit selling intact parachutes.

Circa 1992, the Canadian Military Police searched a civilian, skydiving school in Alberta looking for some sport harness/containers that had "disappearred" out of the Skyhawks' loft.

So any intact military parachutes - sold in North America - were probably stolen.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Oct 5, 2011, 11:23 AM
Post #5 of 13 (2070 views)
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Re: [JohnRich] Skydiving, criminal activity [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Recent events surrounding modified, stolen gear that resulted in an injury have me wondering when (if ever) this has previously happened in skydiving history. Person takes modified gear from military or civilian supplier, sells it into the skydiving community as used gear, and someone is injured or killed using the stolen equipment.

I can't think of any.

The odds of having gear stolen is very low. And the odds of being injured or killed are very low. So when you put those two together, the odds of being injured or killed on stolen equipment is even more unlikely.

But it's bound to have happened somewhere along the way.

And if it has, would anyone else have even known that the equipment used was stolen? Certainly the victim isn't going to admit it. And if others knew it, they probably would have done something earlier to get the gear back to the rightful owner. So even if someone is injured on stolen gear, it is unlikely once again that anyone will know about it that would report upon it.

FWIW, in the current case at hand, the victim didn't know it was stolen until after the incident occurred.


johnmatrix  (D 9999)

Oct 5, 2011, 2:12 PM
Post #6 of 13 (2033 views)
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Wasn't there a bunch of skydivers who went around robbing banks in the early 90s?


SkydiveJack  (D 6486)

Oct 5, 2011, 4:13 PM
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Re: [johnmatrix] Skydiving, criminal activity [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Wasn't there a bunch of skydivers who went around robbing banks in the early 90s?

Thats right. They wore masks of presidents of the United States.


SkydiveJack  (D 6486)

Oct 5, 2011, 4:15 PM
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But on a serious note

DSE, what is this incident you are referring to? Is there a thread about it?


crotalus01  (B 28932)

Oct 16, 2011, 10:22 PM
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Re: [SkydiveJack] Skydiving, criminal activity [In reply to] Can't Post

Stolen Cypress test units sold by Justin Shorb. The firing altitude was higher than a sport Cypress and one fired on a fun jumper causing a two out situation....


(This post was edited by crotalus01 on Oct 16, 2011, 10:34 PM)


Krip  (Student)

Oct 17, 2011, 12:28 AM
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Hi Mr Spot

Almost back in the day some of the military canopies in Bailout rigs had a shelf liife of 7 yr's before they were taken out of service.

I din't know if the 7 yr's were from date of service or manufactor.

G.I. have their ways of getting hold of stuff before they were taken out of service, or before the suspension lines were cut off the canopies. This is were some of the cheapo's came from that were modified in to double L's, double t's etc.

A 26' navy conical reserve canopy were hard to get but they came from the military,surpkus mkt same with the army belly warts.

We had 10ea BA 18's bailout rigs on our c-130's that we used for standing by open doors while dropping troops equipment, and certain emergency's. The army jumpmaster also wore these rigs. You can google the spec's. Not a good rig for 300-1000ft. Blast handle, bailout bottle, and other stuff.

We always took off with ten rigs because we could be diverted any time to anyplace. one time we landed with 9 rigs. Unimpressed we were carrying jeeps, trucks and some army people. One of the GI's must have threw one in the jeep trailer or the back of a deuce & half .

We were issued 38 S&W combat masterpiece when we went in country, but it was a PIA to wear so we stuffed it in our helmet bag and hid it on the flt deck to prevent a G.I. from stealing it.

In the civie world there was some kind of a shipment of gear that got damaged in a train accident. It was sold as scrap but some of it made it's way back into the surplus market.

I was only in for 4 yr's, the longer people where in, the more connections they had. The supply sgt for our C-130 flying squadron had all kind of neat stuff to swap for jump gear he was interested in. He just happened to be a rigger.Wink

I'm talking about 40 yr's ago but when I see a complete halo gig for sale on ebay it is what it is. Of course there could be a logical explanation that I'm not aware of.

Keep in mind during the Nam some G.I.s were working the system and partnering with some corrupt rvn higer ranking officers to smuggle drugs into the states inside of KIA's.Crazy

R.



R.


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Oct 17, 2011, 6:41 PM
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Re: [Krip] Skydiving, criminal activity [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Krip,

Quote:
26' navy conical reserve canopy were hard to get but they came from the military

It was ~1967 and I was peddling gear, some new & some used. I got a call one day from a guy who said to call himself 'Dog' and that he had 25 Navy Conicals for sale @ ~$20 each. I told him to give me 3-4 days and to call me back about them.

I did not have that much money laying around so I called up Eddie Brown down in California and asked him if he wanted 25 at $25 each. He said that was a good price and he would take them but he always figured that there would be ~10% that would not be jumpable.

Then about 2-3 days later Eddie called me back, all in a panic, as he had just gotten off of the phone with the FBI as they were trying to locate a bunch of Navy conicals that had been stolen from a naval base up at Bremerton, WA.

I never did hear back from 'Dog' on that deal.

Angelic

JerryBaumchen


Krip  (Student)

Oct 17, 2011, 9:17 PM
Post #12 of 13 (1687 views)
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Re: [JerryBaumchen] Skydiving, criminal activity [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Mr Baumchen

Military gear that was floating around before their experation date was usally a dead giveaway. That it was very warm.Unsure

Personally I didn't see to much of a problem dumpster diving for perfectly good "obsolete gear" before it got ruined by cutting the lines off.

But diverting new gear was something I personally had a problem with. Our supply sgt was a pro, he was being paid for living off base but was able to eat for free at the chow hall, The cook alway wore a nice looking light weight flt jacket.

Flight glove's When we wanted a new pair we were supposed to turn in the pair, The regs only required one glove (people lose stuff)

When the supply sgt got a pair of old flight gloves he would split up the pair, give one new pair to the original owner and keep one new pair for tradeing stock.

Inventory shrinkage was a real problem for the poor G.I'.s in the shit at the botttom of the food the chain. The REMF's had all the new stuff and the poor guy's in the field had to wait longer than they should have.Frown

R.


Premier Nigel  (D 99999)

May 29, 2012, 7:44 AM
Post #13 of 13 (1398 views)
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Re: [DSE] Skydiving, criminal activity [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Recent events surrounding modified, stolen gear that resulted in an injury have me wondering when (if ever) this has previously happened in skydiving history.

Person takes modified gear from military or civilian supplier, sells it into the skydiving community as used gear, and someone is injured or killed using the stolen equipment.

I've searched the forums, and only found one related reference; some gear stolen by members of the armed forces from armed forces units.

Are there any others?

I did my first jumps at Lympne Airfield, UK, in 1976. We used 2L rounds, the 'school' (Eagle Air Sports) was owned and run by ex-REME Captain, Alec Black, with ex-para Sgts (George Dunn was the firm but kindly chief of torture) as instructors. I don't know about the rigs, but I do remember seeing 20 or so boxed, new, Merlin MkVI twin hose scuba regulators in the hangar.

One night in 1977, going to the cinema, I remember the London Evening Standard headline was of a Cessna crash. Capt Black plus 2 jumpers and jumpmaster all died when engine cut shortly after take-off. Turned out Capt Black never had a pilot's license, rest of his operation was all a bit dodgy.

I suspect the rigs (and the scuba gear) had all been 'diverted' from the military without payment. But this is just conjecture...

Despite the unprofessionalism, mayhem and death he left behind, I always liked Capt Black and his roguish operation. I still have my log-book signed by G Dunne, D2332. Rumor (before he died) was he was an NCO, then commissioned. Who was subsequently caught shagging his CO's wife...which was considered 'conduct unbecoming an officer and gentleman'...



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