Forums: Skydiving: Skydiving History & Trivia:
Another Para Commander question

 


captain1976  (D 7183)

Oct 3, 2011, 7:53 PM
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Another Para Commander question Can't Post

A young jumper at my DZ fell in love with the PC I gave him and he jumps it every weekend. Now others are using it and its becoming a novelty.

He asked me a question the other day and I don't remember; how much did we shortline our Mark I's?

I recall the Competition model came with pretty short lines and most of us had ours cut at the dealers, but does anyone remember how much?


lekstrom10k  (D 3001)

Oct 3, 2011, 7:58 PM
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 At least three feet. There was also a steering mod where the rings were sewed at the steering loops. All mine had it done but not sure exactly the rigger did.


stratostar  (Student)

Oct 3, 2011, 11:10 PM
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I would not short line one today, you don't really need too. I own a few of each type..... 2 jumbos, 4 mk1's & a pap, got both short lined and non short line. For one thing as easy as they are to come by, if your looking, you can find short lined ones all day long, everyone did it, standard factory lines are not all that common to find.

For the record, mk-2 suck and you better hit the peas.Wink


DBCOOPER  (D 24112)

Oct 4, 2011, 2:55 AM
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So can you put a round into a modern H/C ?


drjump  (D 2785)

Oct 4, 2011, 4:49 AM
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Standard short line was 36 inches-some went a much as 48 inches-all depends upon total suspended weight and how hard you wanted to impact the ground.


stratostar  (Student)

Oct 4, 2011, 6:09 AM
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Yes you can depending on the HC. I know people who have used big student HC's or TDM rigs. I have nice "modern" wonderhog sn 944, it's had the belly band removed and a boc added to it. Packed up it looks like any other rig.... hand deploy on 3 rings, only it's big as hell and bulky when next to today gear. You would not know there is a round in it until it opens.


andrewhilton  (D 32371)

Oct 4, 2011, 11:44 AM
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Lots of info as always in Gary Lewis' Para-Commander Handbook. The two scans attached here show that shortlining was possible up to about 4.5 feet.

I put PCs in modern Telesis (student) rigs, they fit fine and allow me to use all the safety features of modern gear.
Attachments: short_lining_pcs_1.jpg (116 KB)
  short_lining_pcs.jpg (298 KB)


captain1976  (D 7183)

Oct 4, 2011, 7:16 PM
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In reply to:
Lots of info as always in Gary Lewis' Para-Commander Handbook. The two scans attached here show that shortlining was possible up to about 4.5 feet.

I put PCs in modern Telesis (student) rigs, they fit fine and allow me to use all the safety features of modern gear.

Thanks for the chart. I never would have guessed the difference of 6.5 feet, thats a lot!

Mine is probably the 3 ft like DRJUMP mentioned but I will measure it myself this weekend.

Thanks all for your answers.


(This post was edited by captain1976 on Oct 4, 2011, 7:18 PM)


obelixtim  (D 84)

Oct 4, 2011, 8:27 PM
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In reply to:
Lots of info as always in Gary Lewis' Para-Commander Handbook. The two scans attached here show that shortlining was possible up to about 4.5 feet.

I put PCs in modern Telesis (student) rigs, they fit fine and allow me to use all the safety features of modern gear.

Yeah, I've put them in a Telesis student rig as well. Had to lengthen the closing loop a little, but no real problem.

It seemed odd jumping a round main with a square reserve. Also odd to have huge audience to watch it packed on the DZ, with a screwdriver pinning the crown lines and someone standing in the harness holding tension. Most of todays jumpers have never seen a roundie packed, let alone in the air.....

And yeah, the MK 2 was not as good as the MK 1.


(This post was edited by obelixtim on Oct 4, 2011, 8:29 PM)


stratostar  (Student)

Oct 4, 2011, 8:33 PM
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Quote:
And yeah, the MK 2 was not as good as the MK 1

If your ever in the air with one under a MK 1, the 2 drops like a lead brick.


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Oct 5, 2011, 11:39 AM
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Hi captain,

Quote:
. . . but I will measure it myself this weekend.

Measure lines at the side or rear of the canopy; the PC had an offset front, i.e., the skirt went up to let air in resulting in longer lines at the front than elsewhere on the canopy.

JerryBaumchen

PS) We are slowing building up a lot of knowledge about the PC that was in danger of being lost forever. Angelic


blongb  (D 2717)

Oct 5, 2011, 4:33 PM
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I chopped off 48" from each line on my MKI while watching TV in my mobile home. Not a rigger, just seems like a fun thing to do. I didn't sew the ends as was the factory method of finishing, just taped them.

I made 900 more jumps on it, so I guess I knew what I was doing?!?

It did make it more "sporty"


MikeRipcord  (C 8021)

Oct 15, 2011, 3:54 PM
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A friend (D-1873) and I chopped 36" off my MK I Church Window, with my weight (then) at about 170 lbs. She chopped 42" off hers.


councilman24  (D 8631)

Oct 15, 2011, 5:00 PM
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Oooo, oooo, ooooo!

I just bought a copy of Gary's book off amazon! Feels like I won the lottery.

Just nobody tell me how much it was originally.



And I owe you a phone call don't I.


Krip  (Student)

Oct 15, 2011, 5:18 PM
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In reply to:
I chopped off 48" from each line on my MKI while watching TV in my mobile home. Not a rigger, just seems like a fun thing to do. I didn't sew the ends as was the factory method of finishing, just taped them.

I made 900 more jumps on it, so I guess I knew what I was doing?!?

It did make it more "sporty"

I bought a used B&W checkerboard PC around 1971 that someone had shortened the suspension lines.

Whoeveer did the mod was not a rigger, but they did have a sewing machine. To bad they didn't know how to adjust the bobbin. So the ends were sewn together sort off.Wink

We put aboout 400 jumps on the PC without a problem.Cool I'm not a rigger but the knots that connected the lines to the connector links imo was the critical part. Smile


andrewhilton  (D 32371)

Oct 16, 2011, 7:54 AM
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In reply to:
Oooo, oooo, ooooo!

I just bought a copy of Gary's book off amazon! Feels like I won the lottery.

Just nobody tell me how much it was originally.

And I owe you a phone call don't I.

Whilst out of print, Peter Chapman uploaded it to http://www.parachutemanuals.com/...=fileinfo&id=308

That book is an increasingly valuable resource as time goes by.


Douggarr  (D 2791)

Oct 18, 2011, 7:20 AM
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I shortlined my Mark 1 48 inches. Most were doing 36 inches. I wanted to absolutely reduce oscillation on accuracy approaches in those days.


OldMan  (D License)

Oct 27, 2011, 4:36 AM
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As I remember we shortened them 40-42"


OldMan  (D License)

Oct 27, 2011, 4:40 AM
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We shortened them 40-42"


aepiper  (C License)

Dec 22, 2011, 2:05 PM
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Quote:
If your ever in the air with one under a MK 1, the 2 drops like a lead brick.

Well THAT explains why my 200+ pounds was rarely able to stand up my MK 2! (Blue Max pattern I think it was called - white, blue, black)
I still have it, but it hasn't been jumped since the late '70's.
... Alan


Krip  (Student)

Dec 22, 2011, 6:20 PM
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In reply to:
Quote:
If your ever in the air with one under a MK 1, the 2 drops like a lead brick.

Well THAT explains why my 200+ pounds was rarely able to stand up my MK 2! (Blue Max pattern I think it was called - white, blue, black)
I still have it, but it hasn't been jumped since the late '70's.
... Alan

Hi Alan

I'm not a rigger, only had 500 jumps on rounds, but only weighed 135lbs WAG 98% 0f my landings were standups even rags.

IMO at 200#'s the canopy was overloaded. Unless you landing in the peas or didn't do a good PLF you were asking for a Pirate landing.

In Ks we would run into a thermal and everyone else on the load was packing by the time we were able to get to the groundUnsure. The reported fwd speed of a PC for a light weight on a PC in my experience wasn't even close either.Unimpressed

Not whining being a light weighSmilet but it hurt to see the big boys pound in. They had to be hard core to jump one size fits all type gear. I respected them for what did and sticking with it.

R


aepiper  (C License)

Dec 22, 2011, 8:26 PM
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Quote:
IMO at 200#'s the canopy was overloaded. Unless you landing in the peas or didn't do a good PLF you were asking for a Pirate landing.

I was not too ashamed to almost always do a PLF. One exception that I remember was when I landed out in the coral south of our Kendall Gliderport DZ (South Florida) and a PLF would have been painful.

But ANY PC was better than a T-10! Back in the day, we had to have at least 100 T-10 jumps before being allowed to jump a PC.

... Alan


Krip  (Student)

Dec 22, 2011, 11:21 PM
Post #23 of 24 (1242 views)
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In reply to:
Quote:
IMO at 200#'s the canopy was overloaded. Unless you landing in the peas or didn't do a good PLF you were asking for a Pirate landing.

I was not too ashamed to almost always do a PLF. One exception that I remember was when I landed out in the coral south of our Kendall Gliderport DZ (South Florida) and a PLF would have been painful.

But ANY PC was better than a T-10! Back in the day, we had to have at least 100 T-10 jumps before being allowed to jump a PC.

... Alan

We were required to have 75 jumps on any rag before a PC.

You remember the deal hi performance and what ever you do don't turn to low to the ground or you can get Pirate.

To bad the don't turn to low to the ground caution went out the window with the sqr's.Now some folks turn low to the ground for fun and they really get really Piratewhen they srew up.

To badFrown

R.I.P.


brokenwing  (B 9447)

Jan 13, 2012, 6:15 AM
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Hugh Bergeron came up with the original design for the shortlining which also had mods to the steering slots and removal of the data panel. He used to work at the NASA Langley Research Center and started the Peninsula Skydivers Skydiving Club. Not sure where he is now. I had my PC done by dave dewolf -- as i was around 145lb at the time performance was fantastic. As an aside rumor -- heard that dave used the data panels to make halter tops but i was never fortunate to see one modeled.

Another also, Hugh never got a dime for the design even though it was used by many and i believe that one canopy was in production with the mod.



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