Sep 19, 2011, 10:49 AM
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Asking for more/less air
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Kind of an etiquette question: if you want to fly at a particular speed, do you tell the tunnel rat before you hop in? If you want it up or down, do you just signal to the tunnel rat?
I ask only because recently I was getting air about 10-15 MPH below what is essentially my minimum, so I spent 15 minutes fighting to just keep off the net. I was sharing time with sub 50 jumpers so they had the wind turned down to 100 for them.
I don't want to be a dick to the tunnel peeps as I know how hard their job is, but at the same time I want to be able to actually get something out of the time I'm spending beau coup bucks on.
Sep 19, 2011, 12:23 PM
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Re: [3mpire] Asking for more/less air
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Personally, I would ask the instructor just before you get in and remind him to signal to the controls guy if he forgets. It is your time and your money. You should get what you want. Changing the air speed between jumpers is not a big deal.
And for future reference, "beaucoup" is all one word!
Sep 19, 2011, 7:26 PM
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Re: [3mpire] Asking for more/less air
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Also I would refrain from calling them "tunnel rats". They are rated instructors and should be treated as such. First time they save you from yourself you will be grateful.
Sep 20, 2011, 6:19 AM
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Re: [3mpire] Asking for more/less air
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How much tunnel time do you have? If it was your first time in and you're not flying the best, they are not going to blast you with the wind.... but then again you really shouldn't be sitting on the net, either. Ask your instructor what the signal is for a little bit of air and they'll tell you what to do. Also, usually the instructors are very good at telling the driver when they need a little more air for the student, so either your guy was having a day dreaming moment and didn't do it, or more than likely he felt you needed a few more minutes to get stable before turning it up for you a notch. Either way, I would just talk directly with the instructor about it.
Sep 20, 2011, 8:39 AM
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Re: [jtiflyer] Asking for more/less air
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@jtiflyer: absolutely no disrespect intended, the term is used rather loosely in my experience, but perhaps that isn't the same everywhere, so my apologies there. i have a lot of respect for the instructors and I know they have a hard job, which is actually why I was asking if there is a common practice for nicely asking them for adjustments.
it sounds like I just need to tell them before hand, or maybe try signalling the instructor so he can communicate to the guy in the booth rather than trying to signal to him directly.
@LyraM45: I'm pretty close to two hours of tunnel time now. That day, however the rest of the group I was with were very new to tunnel flying, so they had the wind turned way down for them. I'm a fast faller in the sky to begin with (125-130), so when the air was 110-105 to look at how I was flying you'd think I was just as new as everyone else. I was mega de-arched and all wonky.
anyway, this probably didn't need it's own thread, it's not that hard to just talk to the guy. I was just looking to see if there is a universal hand signal that I could use to say "may I please have 120".
Sep 20, 2011, 8:40 AM
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Re: [3mpire] Asking for more/less air
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a lot of times when conducting mantis camps, I see people on the net and it's mostly because of crappy body position - if you give them more air, sometimes they'll just adjust to an even worse body position and still be on the net.
other times, they need more air
you need to know what you need to fix first (same thing noted for sit/back/etc) - and there are effective and ineffective ways to get off the net with low air - helps to get that coaching too
I'd 'ask' them if you think you need more airspeed or if they are seeing that you have a bad body position - and directly note that you are fighting to get off the net and want to fix that.
You'll then get one of two things:
1 - more air 2 - or really good advice on your body position (and likely more air anyway)
most all of the tunnel attendants I've met have been fantastic and professional - treat them as such and as a great resource for improving your flying, and you'll get a great response normally
(This post was edited by rehmwa on Sep 20, 2011, 8:43 AM)
Sep 20, 2011, 8:58 AM
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Re: [rehmwa] Asking for more/less air
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thanks for the feedback -- body position is definitely something I have been focusing on. My body position is actually getting pretty good at my "comfortable" speeds. My slow flying definitely needs some work. I can fly at the low speeds, but now that I've learned about good body position, I know that my low speed flying is horrible body position.
the two seem to be opposites--it would be interesting to see how to maintain good body position while cutting 20 MPH off your "natural" fall-rate. I'm working with a coach who is super cool, so I'll ask them for some insight.
Sep 20, 2011, 10:10 AM
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Re: [3mpire] Asking for more/less air
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Sounds like maybe you got lost in the mix of first timers, then. I'll echo what was just said too-- just chat with the instructor about more air and body position. I'm sure you'll figure it out with the instructor and have a rockin session.
Sep 20, 2011, 12:55 PM
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Re: [3mpire] Asking for more/less air
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1st: Don't look at the Airspeed readout and expect it to be the same as you see on your ProTrac/Neptune/Whatever in the sky. You're 25 to 30 lbs lighter in the tunnel than in the sky, so your fall rate will be less as well.
2nd: If you really are in control, the fastest way to get the instructor in the doorway to tell the instructor in the booth (this is the proper chain of responsibility) to increase the speed is to settle to the net in a perfect body position, turn to face the instructor in the door, make eye contact, and ask for more air with a raised thumb.
When they see that you are in control, they are most assuredly going to increase the air speed. It should take less than 5 seconds for the instructor to recognize the problem. If they don't, then that's a problem, but if you are de-arched bouncing all over the tunnel just because you are trying to stay off the net, I can see why they might suspect you don't have the control needed to handle higher airspeeds.
Sep 20, 2011, 5:18 PM
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Re: [diablopilot] Asking for more/less air
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Quote:
2nd: If you really are in control, the fastest way to get the instructor in the doorway to tell the instructor in the booth (this is the proper chain of responsibility) to increase the speed is to settle to the net in a perfect body position, turn to face the instructor in the door, make eye contact, and ask for more air with a raised thumb.
Sep 26, 2011, 7:53 AM
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Re: [3mpire] Asking for more/less air
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At Indoor skydiving Bottrop there is sign system in place. The controller can always see into the tunnel and any experienced flyer can give the signal to the controller. You can give the controller a percentage value from 60 to 95% in one signal. Since it's the only tunnel I've ever been to I thought this was common in all tunnels...
At Indoor skydiving Bottrop there is sign system in place. The controller can always see into the tunnel and any experienced flyer can give the signal to the controller. You can give the controller a percentage value from 60 to 95% in one signal. Since it's the only tunnel I've ever been to I thought this was common in all tunnels...
SVCO is the same way. The instructors have a series of hand signals that tell the "driver" what percentage they/student need.
Sep 26, 2011, 7:26 PM
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Re: [hokierower] Asking for more/less air
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If you're experienced enough in the tunnel you'll know the hand signals...........and more importantly the tunnel driver will listen to you when you use them.
Just because you think you're ready for more power doesn't mean you are.
Oct 1, 2011, 5:28 AM
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Re: [hparrish] Asking for more/less air
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I am somewhat of a tunnel rat myself and every tunnel I have been to has been more than willing to adjust the airspeed if needed. If I get in and need more air I just give a thumbs up to the instructor/driver and that usually does it. Like what was said before if they dont feel you can handle more air they wont give it to you. Although one of the greatest training tools I have had in the tunnel when I was first learning belly flying was I had an instructor who (once I showed sufficient stability and started working on things such as side slides etc...) made me use way more air then I needed for bellyflying so that I could learn to adjust my body position and make all the same movements (turns, side slides etc...) and stay at the same fall rate even when near my max fallrate
