Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Horse Shoes anyone??

 


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Sep 12, 2011, 7:57 PM
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Horse Shoes anyone?? Can't Post

Be careful on exit folks...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30xSs3DICCU


yoink

Sep 12, 2011, 8:20 PM
Post #2 of 19 (1626 views)
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Re: [skyjumpenfool] Horse Shoes anyone?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Not a horseshoe. It's a clusterfuck, but not a horseshoe. Wink

Could have been much, much worse though. I thought his hands were trapped in the lines as the main deployed... Unimpressed


captain1976  (D 7183)

Sep 12, 2011, 8:57 PM
Post #3 of 19 (1603 views)
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Re: [skyjumpenfool] Horse Shoes anyone?? [In reply to] Can't Post

I've hear of the baton pass, but never "passin the bag"
Looks like fun!Tongue


LDiCosimo  (B License)

Sep 12, 2011, 11:03 PM
Post #4 of 19 (1546 views)
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Re: [yoink] Horse Shoes anyone?? [In reply to] Can't Post

whats not a horseshoe about the bridle being wraped on his leg?

Not flame just asking


ghost47  (A License)

Sep 12, 2011, 11:25 PM
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Re: [LDiCosimo] Horse Shoes anyone?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
whats not a horseshoe about the bridle being wraped on his leg?
I believe a horseshoe malfunction is when the closing pin is pulled (or the closing loop breaks), but the pilot chute is still in its pouch. See, e.g., http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ-F4wXH7vg at 0:18.


LDiCosimo  (B License)

Sep 12, 2011, 11:51 PM
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Re: [ghost47] Horse Shoes anyone?? [In reply to] Can't Post

I see what your saying. But I beleive a horse shoe also includes when the pilot chute is out but tagneled on something like a limb (or go pro) thus preventing proper deployment of the main and also causing you to not be able to effectively cut it away and have to deploy a reserve into a nasty mess.
Merriah Eakins (kmfreefly) has quite the horseshoe story involving the bridle and her braid. Shocked


airtwardo  (D License)

Sep 12, 2011, 11:54 PM
Post #7 of 19 (1529 views)
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Re: [ghost47] Horse Shoes anyone?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
whats not a horseshoe about the bridle being wraped on his leg?
I believe a horseshoe malfunction is when the closing pin is pulled (or the closing loop breaks), but the pilot chute is still in its pouch. See, e.g., http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ-F4wXH7vg at 0:18.


No A horse shoe is when any part of the canopy is connected to ya along with the risers.

You can have a shoe when the bridle snags your gopro mount and you pull the pin trying to un-snag it...Wink


(This post was edited by airtwardo on Sep 12, 2011, 11:55 PM)


Arvoitus  (D 3917)

Sep 13, 2011, 3:32 AM
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Re: [LDiCosimo] Horse Shoes anyone?? [In reply to] Can't Post

I was under the impression that the name horseshoe malfunction comes from the fact that the canopy/lines are connected by two points (PC&risers) to the jumper forming a kind of a horseshoe shape hence the name horseshoe malfunction. If its just the PC&bridle that are entangled with the jumper and the container is closed there won't be a loop of stuff forming that shape which would be why that wouldn't be called a horseshoe malfunction.


Andy9o8  (D License)

Sep 13, 2011, 3:52 AM
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Re: [airtwardo] Horse Shoes anyone?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Heh heh. I think part of the "definition problem" is that some of the terms for certain malfunctions were invented before the existence of hand-deployed pilot chutes.
- If your hand-deployed pilot chute is out and snags on you, but the main container pin isn't pulled yet, is it a "horseshoe"?
- If you have a PCIT, is is a "total", or a "partial"?

At times it seems that too much time is spent worrying about "labeling" malfunctions. Ya got a mallie, f*** what to call it; just deal with it! Wink

p.s. - 'member when a lineover was a "Mae West"? Yeah, boobies! Now that was a name for a mallie.


sundevil777  (D License)

Sep 13, 2011, 3:58 AM
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Re: [Arvoitus] Horse Shoes anyone?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If its just the PC&bridle that are entangled with the jumper and the container is closed there won't be a loop of stuff forming that shape which would be why that wouldn't be called a horseshoe malfunction.

But there was a loop of stuff forming that shape.


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Sep 13, 2011, 7:25 AM
Post #11 of 19 (1388 views)
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Re: [sundevil777] Horse Shoes anyone?? [In reply to] Can't Post

I think if you watch the video a couple times, at some point, he is dealing with a horse shoe mal. Granted, he may be causing this problem by grabbing onto the lines, but it's hard to see if he is grabbing lines or if the lines are grabbing him.

A couple things I should point out
This was not an intentional deployment. The jumper who grabbed the PC did so by accident. Hes a very experienced jumper who is not happy about his part in this. It sounds as though one of his fingers got into the PC handle and caused the pull.

Also, this demonstrates how wildly lines and bridal can dance around and grab stuff like hands, cameras/snag points, feet, open flaps, etc.

Clearly, mistakes were made here. Its nice to see that no one has resorted to blasting the players. That being said, I think its interesting that during this, the jumper with the mal never lets go of his grip on jumper 2. An extra hand might have been helpful. Not to mention that bag comes very close to grabbing her as well. Keep in mind, this video has been slowed down a bit. It actually happens very fast
Cool


nigel99  (D 1)

Sep 13, 2011, 7:47 AM
Post #12 of 19 (1372 views)
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Re: [yoink] Horse Shoes anyone?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Not a horseshoe. It's a clusterfuck, but not a horseshoe. Wink

Could have been much, much worse though. I thought his hands were trapped in the lines as the main deployed... Unimpressed

I like the definition of horseshoe as the canopy being attached to you in more than 1 place (1 place being the risers). It keeps it simple to remember emergency procedures and when describing it to people (especially students and newbies).

To the original poster - did he have to cutaway or did he kick out the linetwists?


sundevil777  (D License)

Sep 13, 2011, 9:24 AM
Post #13 of 19 (1340 views)
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Re: [skyjumpenfool] Horse Shoes anyone?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
...one of his fingers got into the PC handle and caused the pull.

Do you mean the PC handle was a tube style?


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Sep 13, 2011, 12:11 PM
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Re: [nigel99] Horse Shoes anyone?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
To the original poster - did he have to cutaway or did he kick out the linetwists?

No cutaway was needed. The line twists were not that bad. Maybe Bazak will jump in and give his account??

A side note, I filled in the empty slot and we turned 4 points!! Ya gotta love this sport.


shah269  (A 59581)

Sep 14, 2011, 10:27 AM
Post #15 of 19 (1165 views)
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Re: [skyjumpenfool] Horse Shoes anyone?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Wait...there was once a mal called a "Mae West"
http://img1.browsebiography.com/...Mae_West_photo_1.jpg
HOLA! How you doing!

Ok back on topic, if they had utilized the Brian Germain method of PS folding would this still have happened?


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Sep 14, 2011, 2:11 PM
Post #16 of 19 (1139 views)
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Re: [shah269] Horse Shoes anyone?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Probly the same outcome. The pilot chute was pulled (accidentally) by the handle. Cool


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Sep 14, 2011, 8:15 PM
Post #17 of 19 (1093 views)
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Re: [yoink] Horse Shoes anyone?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Not a horseshoe. It's a clusterfuck, but not a horseshoe. Wink

My definition of a "horseshoe" and what I teach the youngsters:

A Horseshoe malfunction is anytime any part of a canopy is attached to you in more than one place. The only legitimate point of contact is through the risers and that counts as one point of contact. If the canopy is attached to you in any other place, or places, you have a horseshoe malfunction.

How do you handle a horseshoe?
Check altitude and get the second point of contact off of you before your decision altitude. If you can't, cutaway and deploy the reserve.

A horseshoe mal is a skydiver's worst nightmare.


The video showed a horseshoe mal.

Some of you guys are describing a premature deployment where the bag has come out of the container before the PC is thrown. That is only one type of horseshoe mal. So what do you do to handle a premature deployment? Get the second point of contact off of you (throw the damned PC!) and if you can't, cutaway and deploy the reserve.

Consider these:
-Bridle wrapped around your arm...horseshoe mal.
-Lines entangled on you anywhere....arm, leg, neck, container....all horseshoe mals.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Sep 14, 2011, 8:22 PM
Post #18 of 19 (1091 views)
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Re: [shah269] Horse Shoes anyone?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Wait...there was once a mal called a "Mae West"
http://img1.browsebiography.com/...Mae_West_photo_1.jpg
HOLA! How you doing!

Ok back on topic, if they had utilized the Brian Germain method of PS folding would this still have happened?

Yeah. We used to call it a Mae West on line-overs just for that reason. If you had ever seen a line-over on a round, you'd realize exactly why.
LaughLaugh

However, in this stupid-assed, overly sensitive world of "politically correctness", we call it a line-over or a bow tie.


PC folding had nothing to do with this mal


(This post was edited by popsjumper on Sep 14, 2011, 8:24 PM)


wayneflorida  (D 30566)

Sep 16, 2011, 10:22 AM
Post #19 of 19 (985 views)
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Re: [Andy9o8] Horse Shoes anyone?? [In reply to] Can't Post

 
p.s. - 'member when a lineover was a "Mae West"? Yeah, boobies! Now that was a name for a mallie.
Too sexist to use that term now, and lineovers on modern squares don't look too much like Mae West.



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