Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Flaaaaring

 

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DaVinciflies

Aug 23, 2011, 2:45 PM
Post #26 of 48 (869 views)
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Re: [PiLFy] Flaaaaring [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
You're taking my comment out of context. I had made it as part of an earlier PM to the OP. He was afraid of flaring early, & stalling @30'. I had said something to the effect of "If you start your flare too high? Just hold the flare to half brakes until you're @the right height. Worse comes to worse, you can always hold it in half brakes, & PLF."

It wasn't BS, Thank You. It was advice prefaced w/the need to go over everything w/his instructors.

Not having been privy to any PMs, I took what you said as anyone else would have done reading these forums.

Remember, the advice you give here could be read by any number of new jumpers who do not have the benefit of any behind the scenes conversations and now have an idea that landing in half-brakes without a complete flare is ok. Which it is not (except in certain, specific conditions).


antibac  (C License)

Aug 23, 2011, 2:46 PM
Post #27 of 48 (868 views)
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Re: [PiLFy] Flaaaaring [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Jeeze,
Let's all pile on the new guy, huh? I don't remember all the particulars of the earlier PMs. I think the OP was struggling, & afraid of slamming in on a landing (again?). I mainly offered words of encouragement. At the end of the message, I had said something like holding it in half brakes & PLFing is something he'll have to do for his A, anyway. When in doubt, he could do that. He was having trouble judging when to start his flare. I think he had slammed his back pretty hard before. I told him to discuss everything w/his instructors. I'm nowhere near having a rating. I know that. Thank you.

P.S.: PeteJones?! Ouch.

Again, I'm not a male. Haha.

I thank you for your tips, and yes, I slammed my back pretty hard before. I've discussed everything I'm curious about and need help with, with my instructors. No worries.


DaVinciflies

Aug 23, 2011, 2:53 PM
Post #28 of 48 (864 views)
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Re: [antibac] Flaaaaring [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey antibac.

Sorry to hear you hurt yourself. Flaring is an acquired skill. It comes with practice and coaching. Video coaching is best as you can really see what you are doing.

I have had people swear blind that they were flaring symmetrically and it was a "wind gust", but the video told another story!

Ask instructors who you trust to watch your landings whenever they can and give you some feedback. Internet coaching really has limited value in many cases.


JerseyShawn  (Student)

Aug 23, 2011, 4:29 PM
Post #29 of 48 (841 views)
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Re: [PiLFy] Flaaaaring [In reply to] Can't Post

[replyI had said something like holding it in half brakes & PLFing is something he'll have to do for his A, anyway.
PLFing isn't needed for your A license. Half braked approach, yes, with a full flare, is needed for your A (Cat F I believe).

Sorry, Im a bit of a safety conscious nerd, stemming from growing up in a firehouse and seeing the aftermath firsthand of accidents from people making mistakes. Had some been taught differently, Im sure I've would have a few less pictures of mangled people embedded in my head from an early age.

Ill always speak up if I see something wrong or that can possibly go wrong. Some have told me to mind my own business, some have thanked me for looking out. Doesn't sway my mouth opening up either way. Call me a dick or a friend. Im all about taking risk, but assessing the situation, adapting saftey, is what will let me hopefully do it again.

Wasn't "piling on the new guy", new guy here too. Just saw something wrong telling another new person to land in half brakes and PLF. I've only been taught to land in half brakes if flying into or on top of a tree. Full flare the rest of the time.

Please don't take any offence to my saftey minded attitudeCool, just don't want to see people getting hurt taking inexperienced advise.


ghost47  (A License)

Aug 23, 2011, 4:41 PM
Post #30 of 48 (837 views)
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Re: [JerseyShawn] Flaaaaring [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
PLFing isn't needed for your A license.
While it may not be on an A license card, if you don't know how to PLF, I certainly hope an AFFI wouldn't even let you make that first jump.


JerseyShawn  (Student)

Aug 23, 2011, 4:44 PM
Post #31 of 48 (832 views)
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Re: [ghost47] Flaaaaring [In reply to] Can't Post

I concur.


PiLFy  (A License)

Aug 23, 2011, 5:34 PM
Post #32 of 48 (822 views)
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Re: [DaVinciflies] Flaaaaring [In reply to] Can't Post

I didn't think you were aware of the PMs. No Worries. Fair Enough on Newbies reading that the wrong way, though.


PiLFy  (A License)

Aug 23, 2011, 5:40 PM
Post #33 of 48 (816 views)
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Re: [JerseyShawn] Flaaaaring [In reply to] Can't Post

I haven't taken offense, Shawn. I typed that tongue-in-cheek. If I say something in error that might get someone hurt? I want to be called on it.

Hold on a tick?! I had to land & PLF in half brakes. I was told it was to simulate landing off where the grass might be four feet high (by surprise). DZ variation, I guess?


PiLFy  (A License)

Aug 23, 2011, 5:44 PM
Post #34 of 48 (813 views)
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Re: [antibac] Flaaaaring [In reply to] Can't Post

<chuckle> I was typing other replies when you posted your gender. You could put that much in your profile, though. I'm glad it's coming together for you. We've got another 4-5wks before it gets too cold. Get busy jumpinCool.


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Aug 23, 2011, 6:12 PM
Post #35 of 48 (804 views)
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Re: [antibac] Flaaaaring [In reply to] Can't Post

Most women do not have the upper body strength that men do. I've seen many women have hard landings because they didn't or couldn't flare all the way, mostly due to lack of strength.

One, do some weight or resistance training to strengthen those arms and shoulders.

Second, make sure you're using proper technique when you pull down on your steering toggles. Pull them down past your body, elbows bent, keeping them close to your face, your chest, your stomach. You have much more power with them in close. A complete flare will take the toggles all the way down to the tops of your thighs, just like you're looking for change in your pockets. Don't flare with your hands behind you. A hard landing could hurt your hand if it's behind your butt.

Many instructors mime and students make the mistake of pulling the toggles out to the sides, with stiff, straight arms. This may look cool for the swoopers, but it's not the right way for students to flare. It takes more muscle to flare that way than with the hands close to the torso. Also, people using this technique often flare only partially, with their hands out in front of them (thinking "my elbows are locked. I can't flare any farther")

So check if this is a problem with you.


freefallfrom10k  (B License)

Aug 25, 2011, 8:41 AM
Post #36 of 48 (735 views)
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Re: [antibac] Flaaaaring [In reply to] Can't Post

I learned this from a newer jumper than myself and have adopted this idea. When you make your final turn to land, spread your legs as if you are lunging. For some odd reason this puts me just where i need to be for my flare and if you need to run it off, your already in position.


DaVinciflies

Aug 25, 2011, 9:11 AM
Post #37 of 48 (728 views)
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Re: [freefallfrom10k] Flaaaaring [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I learned this from a newer jumper than myself and have adopted this idea. When you make your final turn to land, spread your legs as if you are lunging. For some odd reason this puts me just where i need to be for my flare and if you need to run it off, your already in position.

This is not suitable advice for a student with 15 jumps.

Feet and knees together and prepare to PLF is the correct and most protective position for newer jumpers who are yet to be able to land consistently and softly.


PiLFy  (A License)

Aug 25, 2011, 9:29 AM
Post #38 of 48 (722 views)
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Re: [DaVinciflies] Flaaaaring [In reply to] Can't Post

+1

A friend recently blew his knee out on a hard landing because he couldn't get his feet & knees together before impact.


PiLFy  (A License)

Aug 25, 2011, 9:30 AM
Post #39 of 48 (721 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] Flaaaaring [In reply to] Can't Post

Nicely worded, John. I had forgotten about this point w/huge student canopies.


antibac  (C License)

Aug 25, 2011, 5:20 PM
Post #40 of 48 (686 views)
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Re: [freefallfrom10k] Flaaaaring [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I learned this from a newer jumper than myself and have adopted this idea. When you make your final turn to land, spread your legs as if you are lunging. For some odd reason this puts me just where i need to be for my flare and if you need to run it off, your already in position.

Sorry, I'm not going to follow this advice nor take it up with my instructors. I'd rather land with my feet and knees together, and do a PLF if I need to.

Did awesome landings today, finally I'm getting the flare :)


RonRandomguy  (Student)

Aug 25, 2011, 11:08 PM
Post #41 of 48 (662 views)
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Re: [antibac] Flaaaaring [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey Antibac,

I just wanted to say that I've read 'most' of the posts on this thread, and I have to say...I have the same problem as you. Well, almost, I have a tendency to flare too low, instead of too high, but either way, I suck at my landings! Hoping to get better at them soon, as it looks like you have done recently. Anyway, no real input here, just thought I'd stop by, scribble on your post, and say hi. :-) Take care.


JerseyShawn  (Student)

Aug 26, 2011, 6:28 AM
Post #42 of 48 (633 views)
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Re: [antibac] Flaaaaring [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Did awesome landings today, finally I'm getting the flare :)
Sweet! Cool


freefallfrom10k  (B License)

Aug 26, 2011, 6:35 AM
Post #43 of 48 (631 views)
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Re: [DaVinciflies] Flaaaaring [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry about that. I failed to read tha amount of jumps this student has.


Joellercoaster  (D 105792)

Aug 26, 2011, 8:31 AM
Post #44 of 48 (610 views)
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Re: [freefallfrom10k] Flaaaaring [In reply to] Can't Post

Feet and knees together at flare time is pretty good advice for anyone, 15 jumps or 115 Wink


dragon2  (D 101989)

Aug 26, 2011, 1:59 PM
Post #45 of 48 (565 views)
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Re: [freefallfrom10k] Flaaaaring [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I learned this from a newer jumper than myself and have adopted this idea. When you make your final turn to land, spread your legs as if you are lunging. For some odd reason this puts me just where i need to be for my flare and if you need to run it off, your already in position.

If you do that and consequently hurt your ankle or leg, I'm actually going to laugh at you for being so dumb.

Feet TOGETHER can take a good bit of force, flare time perfect or otherwise.
Feet APART is what gets you hurt, this is even possible with good flare timing and with a big canopy to boot.


(This post was edited by dragon2 on Aug 26, 2011, 1:59 PM)


Trae  (Student)

Aug 26, 2011, 4:30 PM
Post #46 of 48 (545 views)
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Re: [freefallfrom10k] Flaaaaring [In reply to] Can't Post

in reply to "I learned this from a newer jumper than myself and have adopted this idea. When you make your final turn to land, spread your legs as if you are lunging. For some odd reason this puts me just where i need to be for my flare and if you need to run it off, your already in position. "
................................................

This is a classic Laugh

Newbies inventing new landing techniques is fraught with danger and suspension of belief.
Your technique may work most of the time but when you get it wrong, one leg will go one way and the other leg will get as far apar as it can....ouch!

The timeless call of " LEGS TOGETHER " should not be dissappearing from a student DZ near you.


Calvin19  (D 29712)

Aug 26, 2011, 6:25 PM
Post #47 of 48 (528 views)
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Re: [freefallfrom10k] Flaaaaring [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I learned this from a newer jumper than myself and have adopted this idea. When you make your final turn to land, spread your legs as if you are lunging. For some odd reason this puts me just where i need to be for my flare and if you need to run it off, your already in position.

Most of skydiving is vanity, don't spread your legs. You look like a moron.


antibac  (C License)

Aug 27, 2011, 5:27 AM
Post #48 of 48 (489 views)
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Re: [JerseyShawn] Flaaaaring [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Did awesome landings today, finally I'm getting the flare :)
Sweet! Cool

Yeah, pretty sweet. I asked my instructors (which I should've done before posting here, really), and got good briefings and understood more what to do. Even got to do a jump off DZ, on a beach :) I've been told several times to look forward and not down before landing, but still I've been looking down... which probably caused me flaring too high. So, I've stopped looking down at the ground, and both my flare and landings are much, much better now. Improved a lot on the last 9 jumps I've had the past week. Was pretty demotivated earlier, now I'm not. Happy, happy, happy :)

Also, regarding the not having radios-thread, apparently it's not allowed in our country, so my DZ are not being cheap. I've also realized that I don't really need it. Now I've been doing exactly what I've been taught, and that has (naturally) helped a lot.

Too bad jumping season is over here at this DZ, blah.


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