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If You can't pack...

 

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Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Aug 18, 2011, 8:31 AM
Post #1 of 79 (3809 views)
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If You can't pack... Can't Post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j4hNgBL8wY

~If you can't pack, don't jump.
~if you can't identify the difference between a lineover, line twist, and a step-through, don't jump.
~If you have to geek the camera on a wingsuit deployment, don't jump.
~if you can't manage a big suit with low wingsuit jump experience, don't jump.

It just makes others look bad.

This is an "experienced skydiver" renting one of my school rigs.


NewGuy2005  (A 50256)

Aug 18, 2011, 8:46 AM
Post #2 of 79 (3753 views)
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Re: [DSE] If You can't pack... [In reply to] Can't Post

 
I'll bite:
What was the cause?


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Aug 18, 2011, 8:50 AM
Post #3 of 79 (3746 views)
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Re: [NewGuy2005] If You can't pack... [In reply to] Can't Post

Gonna let the cause breathe til more people see it.
Lines were properly walked, canopy stowed entirely correctly, it's a stowless Dbag and lines were all properly figure-8'ted into the flap.
Hint; the packer left approx 36" of unstowed line in the tray.


NewGuy2005  (A 50256)

Aug 18, 2011, 8:54 AM
Post #4 of 79 (3740 views)
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Re: [DSE] If You can't pack... [In reply to] Can't Post

 
A "deployment through"?


Rooky

Aug 18, 2011, 9:06 AM
Post #5 of 79 (3714 views)
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Re: [DSE] If You can't pack... [In reply to] Can't Post

Hmm,
for me, it looks like a line over. A complete one over the whole canopy down the opposite side lines.
With one or more lines, hard to tell from the video.

But there are a few twists in the right line group as well, so there might be more than the lineover.

Greez,
Martin


feuergnom  (D License)

Aug 18, 2011, 9:32 AM
Post #6 of 79 (3692 views)
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Re: [DSE] If You can't pack... [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
If you can't pack, don't jump.

nice try, but this would probably eliminate 1/3 of the u.s. jumping population or put packers out of work Tongue

Quote:
~if you can't identify the difference between a lineover, line twist, and a step-through, don't jump.

doesn't matter what it is - only question is: why did that guy fuck around that long????

Quote:
~If you have to geek the camera on a wingsuit deployment, don't jump.

I always knew you were a spoilsport: geeking the camera is the only reason for skydiving, isn't it?

Quote:
~if you can't manage a big suit with low wingsuit jump experience, don't jump.

well since you are the expert on that kind of stuff, I won't comment

Quote:
It just makes others look bad.

huh????


TKoontz  (B 35932)

Aug 18, 2011, 9:34 AM
Post #7 of 79 (3690 views)
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Re: [DSE] If You can't pack... [In reply to] Can't Post

@ :14 it looks like his steering line is routed through the wrong side/grommet of the slider...is it a removable slider and he somehow misrouted his line or something? I've never used or even seen a removable system being repacked so I'm not sure on the specifics of how they work

Edit: Looks like his right steering line was wrapped around his left set of lines before going up to the slider? This is confusing lol


(This post was edited by TKoontz on Aug 18, 2011, 9:39 AM)


Rstanley0312  (D 31900)

Aug 18, 2011, 9:45 AM
Post #8 of 79 (3664 views)
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Re: [TKoontz] If You can't pack... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
@ :14 it looks like his steering line is routed through the wrong side/grommet of the slider...is it a removable slider and he somehow misrouted his line or something? I've never used or even seen a removable system being repacked so I'm not sure on the specifics of how they work

Edit: Looks like his right steering line was wrapped around his left set of lines before going up to the slider? This is confusing lol


not at you TKoon just a general comment/question..... did he pitch his handles? I am pretty sure that is what I saw..... He saved his own life so nice work but after that reserve opened I would be pissed at myself if I just threw away my handles.


(This post was edited by Rstanley0312 on Aug 18, 2011, 9:46 AM)


CRASH1  (D 32099)

Aug 18, 2011, 9:53 AM
Post #9 of 79 (3643 views)
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Re: [Rstanley0312] If You can't pack... [In reply to] Can't Post

They found the main I assume?

BTW: Great video...The music and editing look and sounds awesome


(This post was edited by CRASH1 on Aug 18, 2011, 10:02 AM)


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Aug 18, 2011, 9:58 AM
Post #10 of 79 (3631 views)
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Re: [CRASH1] If You can't pack... [In reply to] Can't Post

yes,we found the main, freebag.
Handles are both gone. Probably in either the dense dry marsh or in the backyard of someone's home along the marsh.

Seeing him not clear the cutaway, and then fumble for the reserve handle might give folks good reason to practice EP's for muscle memory.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Aug 18, 2011, 10:05 AM
Post #11 of 79 (3617 views)
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Re: [feuergnom] If You can't pack... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

Quote:
It just makes others look bad.

huh????

A fair number of low-time, dumb-ass wingsuiters are making the rest of the wingsuit population suffer through their stupid actions/choices. Both BASE and skydive locations face a real risk of being closed due to people not understanding skydive basics before moving forward. Read the threads on basejumper.com; there is a very real threat of some exits being closed because people aren't doing their due diligence and causing problems.
There are already a couple DZ's that no longer allow wingsuiting.

Anyway....this was packed with around 1M of excess, which wouldn't be a problem had the excess been stowed in s-loops near the bottom of the reserve tray. When the Dbag was rotated, I believe it scooped up a line in the tabs on the stowless bag, or on the locking stow. Too much excess placed near the bottom of the main tray, I believe. This allowed the bag to deploy through the line.


(This post was edited by DSE on Aug 18, 2011, 10:06 AM)


JackC1

Aug 18, 2011, 10:20 AM
Post #12 of 79 (3599 views)
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Re: [DSE] If You can't pack... [In reply to] Can't Post

This isn't just a line over though is it? There is also an inversion by the looks of things. I'm not sure how that could happen on deployment, even if the bag was rotated in the container snagging up a line or two.


(This post was edited by JackC1 on Aug 18, 2011, 10:23 AM)
Attachments: Capture2.JPG (30.5 KB)


theonlyski  (D License)

Aug 18, 2011, 10:23 AM
Post #13 of 79 (3589 views)
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Re: [DSE] If You can't pack... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Gonna let the cause breathe til more people see it.
Lines were properly walked, canopy stowed entirely correctly, it's a stowless Dbag and lines were all properly figure-8'ted into the flap.
Hint; the packer left approx 36" of unstowed line in the tray.

What was his logic for leaving 3' of line unstowed?

Looks like he got the bridle under a line or two, if all else was done right.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Aug 18, 2011, 10:23 AM
Post #14 of 79 (3589 views)
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Re: [JackC1] If You can't pack... [In reply to] Can't Post

Given the amount of excess and the stowless Dbag, plus seeing how the packer thought he needed to manage the open corners of the rig, it's pretty easy to see how the Dbag caught up a line, and/or could tumble in the burble of a big wingsuit.
On a stowless system, you don't need any excess outside of the Dbag. Certainly not 3' plus.


theonlyski  (D License)

Aug 18, 2011, 10:26 AM
Post #15 of 79 (3580 views)
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Re: [DSE] If You can't pack... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It's pretty easy to see how the Dbag caught up a line, and/or could tumble in the burble of a big wingsuit.

Not sure I'm with you on this one, if the PC is creating drag enough to pull the pin and extract the bag from the container, I don't see how it could then lose it's drag and fly thru some of the lines being played out.


JackC1

Aug 18, 2011, 10:27 AM
Post #16 of 79 (3575 views)
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Re: [DSE] If You can't pack... [In reply to] Can't Post

I guess it could be possible. I was thinking that flipping the bag through the lines to get a full inversion would mean the bridle and pilot chute had to go through there as well. That seemed unlikely but I'll admit I know nothing about stowless bags or wingsuit deployments.


theonlyski  (D License)

Aug 18, 2011, 10:33 AM
Post #17 of 79 (3568 views)
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Re: [DSE] If You can't pack... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Too much excess placed near the bottom of the main tray, I believe. This allowed the bag to deploy through the line.

Unless he routed the bridle under the lines, it wouldn't have been able to dance its way into this configuration. I could freestow all of my lines and rotate the bag (which, I don't do anyways because it ends up making the container look bad usually) and so long as the bridle is clear, it will not be able to flip into this configuration.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Aug 18, 2011, 10:54 AM
Post #18 of 79 (3541 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] If You can't pack... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Too much excess placed near the bottom of the main tray, I believe. This allowed the bag to deploy through the line.

Unless he routed the bridle under the lines, it wouldn't have been able to dance its way into this configuration. I could freestow all of my lines and rotate the bag (which, I don't do anyways because it ends up making the container look bad usually) and so long as the bridle is clear, it will not be able to flip into this configuration.

This is what appears to have happened. He claims he put the bridle on top of the Dbag after he rotated it, before he pulled up the loop. But..., when he demonstrated his packjob, the Dbag was rolled up twisted and backwards, bridle routed underneath. That's the only thing that makes sense to me, too.
The combination of stowless D bag and open corners had this guy vexed, and he didn't ask anyone for help.
And...how many guys have 400+ jumps and only 3-5 packjobs under their belts?Unsure


theonlyski  (D License)

Aug 18, 2011, 10:56 AM
Post #19 of 79 (3538 views)
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Re: [DSE] If You can't pack... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
And...how many guys have 400+ jumps and only 3-5 packjobs under their belts?Unsure

How many of those were cutaways? LaughLaugh

Also, there's plenty of TI's out there who cannot remember how to pack the rigs they're rated for... Unsure


Rstanley0312  (D 31900)

Aug 18, 2011, 11:19 AM
Post #20 of 79 (3514 views)
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Re: [DSE] If You can't pack... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
yes,we found the main, freebag.
Handles are both gone. Probably in either the dense dry marsh or in the backyard of someone's home along the marsh.

Seeing him not clear the cutaway, and then fumble for the reserve handle might give folks good reason to practice EP's for muscle memory.

Sorry about the loss of handles DSE but at least the guy is alive and you have the main and freebag.

This guy needs to practice his EP's and not mess around that long with a problem that could not be fixed. Had that main been spinning this could have ended a lot worse but then again he may not have messed with it then and just chopped. Hopefully.....


grimmie  (D 18890)

Aug 18, 2011, 11:22 AM
Post #21 of 79 (3509 views)
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Re: [DSE] If You can't pack... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Too much excess placed near the bottom of the main tray, I believe. This allowed the bag to deploy through the line.

Unless he routed the bridle under the lines, it wouldn't have been able to dance its way into this configuration. I could freestow all of my lines and rotate the bag (which, I don't do anyways because it ends up making the container look bad usually) and so long as the bridle is clear, it will not be able to flip into this configuration.

This is what appears to have happened. He claims he put the bridle on top of the Dbag after he rotated it, before he pulled up the loop. But..., when he demonstrated his packjob, the Dbag was rolled up twisted and backwards, bridle routed underneath. That's the only thing that makes sense to me, too.
The combination of stowless D bag and open corners had this guy vexed, and he didn't ask anyone for help.
And...how many guys have 400+ jumps and only 3-5 packjobs under their belts?Unsure

way too many.Crazy


theonlyski  (D License)

Aug 18, 2011, 11:37 AM
Post #22 of 79 (3491 views)
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Re: [DSE] If You can't pack... [In reply to] Can't Post

You'd figure in 400 jumps, he would learn to FLARE a canopy on landing (now that the video is posted on FB and I can view it)Unsure

ETA, DSE: Tell those guys commenting on the video on FB that it's not the brake line either, it's one of the front riser lines.Tongue


(This post was edited by theonlyski on Aug 18, 2011, 11:45 AM)


Morrison79  (C 37447)

Aug 18, 2011, 12:18 PM
Post #23 of 79 (3434 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] If You can't pack... [In reply to] Can't Post

Another case of someone having too small of a reserve and not being able to land it. If he had landed on pavement it would probably in the incidents thread....


virgin-burner

Aug 18, 2011, 12:53 PM
Post #24 of 79 (3402 views)
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Re: [DSE] If You can't pack... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j4hNgBL8wY

~If you can't pack, don't jump.
~if you can't identify the difference between a lineover, line twist, and a step-through, don't jump.
~If you have to geek the camera on a wingsuit deployment, don't jump.
~if you can't manage a big suit with low wingsuit jump experience, don't jump.

It just makes others look bad.

This is an "experienced skydiver" renting one of my school rigs.

not his rig, so why keep the handles in the first place!? Tongue

so, at 400 jumps he cant pack? and apparently, he cant land for shit, too!?

i keep on saying there's a problem with proper training and/or edumucation, after watching this video, i have no more questions.. Shocked


sundevil777  (D License)

Aug 18, 2011, 1:09 PM
Post #25 of 79 (3376 views)
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Re: [virgin-burner] If You can't pack... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
not his rig, so why keep the handles in the first place!?

Quite right! I hold onto them because it is a matter of pride to have them after a mal, and I don't want them to interfere with the reserve deployment - let them go and that is just what they might do.

Perhaps the guy wanted to check out how hard a no flare landing would be.


(This post was edited by sundevil777 on Aug 18, 2011, 1:10 PM)


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