Forums: Skydiving: Tandem Skydiving:
Tandem Landing Tips

 

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reynolds  (D 103702)

Aug 10, 2011, 2:09 PM
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Tandem Landing Tips Can't Post

Do any of you experienced Tandem Instructors have any tips for assisting 'students' to get their legs up on landing. Some people seem to have no problem getting their legs up high for sit down landings, and others are hopeless (usually blaming the harness for restricting their movement). It doesn't seem to be an age or gender thing (I accept fitness levels can play a factor). Any tips/views please?


PiLFy  (A License)

Aug 10, 2011, 2:22 PM
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Re: [reynolds] Tandem Landing Tips [In reply to] Can't Post

FWIW,
I'm not an instructor, but have done three tandem jumps. I'm a fit & trim guy, but was unable to get my legs up enough for the first landing. For the others, I grabbed the harness above my shoulders, & used the TI's body to leverage against. The result was being able to swing my legs up effortlessly, bringing my body into an "L" shape.


indyz  (D 28525)

Aug 10, 2011, 2:40 PM
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Proper harness adjustment really helps. The further forward you can position the hip joints the easier it will be for the student. Once the lowers are loosened you can help the student scoot the leg straps forward a few inches so that they are in more of a sitting position. When briefing and practicing the landing, I have the student first lift their knees like they are sitting in a chair, which seems to be fairly easy for most people, then lift their feet up. I am lucky in that I am fairly tall and long legged, so just the sitting position works well enough about 75% of the time.

When landing I keep my legs close together, so that they are under the student's butt instead of off to the side. In light winds I land on my feet and start to slide. If I decide not to stand up, I lean back, letting my feet get farther in front as I transition to sitting down. This also helps bring the students feet up. It ends with the student sitting in my lap and not touching the ground at all until we have completely stopped and I let them down.


johnny1488  (D 25453)

Aug 10, 2011, 8:33 PM
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Re: [indyz] Tandem Landing Tips [In reply to] Can't Post

What he said.

But seriously, its all about harness. Landing technique is up to the individual, but as far as i'm concerned, there is only one way to harness, the right way. RTFM.


piisfish

Aug 11, 2011, 12:41 AM
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Re: [reynolds] Tandem Landing Tips [In reply to] Can't Post

don't lift LEG.. Lift knees, then if possible push feet forward.

In case of problem lifting knees, passenger grabs under calves to help keep the legs up.


feuergnom  (D License)

Aug 11, 2011, 3:09 AM
Post #6 of 33 (3513 views)
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Re: [reynolds] Tandem Landing Tips [In reply to] Can't Post

if nothing else helps you can have the pax rest his feet on top of yours (like when landing with someone passed out)
YMMV


inextremis  (D 6498)

Aug 11, 2011, 4:25 AM
Post #7 of 33 (3499 views)
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Re: [PiLFy] Tandem Landing Tips [In reply to] Can't Post

Not interested in the 10 fingers of death being above my student's shoulders and near cutaway handle while under canopy--good harness fit and bringing knees up to the "sitting in a swing" position helps. Leg grippers on student jumpsuits (or just excess fabric) can be grabbed as an assist.


Erroll

Aug 11, 2011, 5:11 AM
Post #8 of 33 (3491 views)
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Re: [reynolds] Tandem Landing Tips [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Any tips/views please?

My son and I recently did a tandem to celebrate his 21st. Our jumpsuits had 'straps' sewn on above and below the knees. This made lifting the legs very easy.

If your tandem pax don't wear jumpsuits however....
Attachments: Tandem.jpg (244 KB)


AdD  (D License)

Aug 11, 2011, 7:18 AM
Post #9 of 33 (3465 views)
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Re: [inextremis] Tandem Landing Tips [In reply to] Can't Post

Doing great harness fitting is a good first step. On the sigma harness the main lift webs do not work like on your sport rig (ie sitting on the side of torso). They should be straight when student is suspended in sitting position. (Move the leg strap pads forward until their tips can touch)

However, the harness fitting method above only applies to people with normal body shape. Pear shaped persons should be fitted with the leg strap/MLW joint further back toward the side of the body to reduce chance of harness ejection.

This puts students into more of a standing position under canopy and they have more difficult lifting legs. I suggest briefing these people on how to reach underneath their leg and move legstrap toward the knee with both hands.


PiLFy  (A License)

Aug 11, 2011, 2:12 PM
Post #10 of 33 (3373 views)
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Re: [inextremis] Tandem Landing Tips [In reply to] Can't Post

Ten Fingers of Death!? Sounds like a Bruce Lee movie... My hands were on MY harness, not my TI's. I wasn't anywhere near his handles.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Aug 12, 2011, 11:53 AM
Post #11 of 33 (3259 views)
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Re: [PiLFy] Tandem Landing Tips [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Ten Fingers of Death!? Sounds like a Bruce Lee movie... My hands were on MY harness, not my TI's. I wasn't anywhere near his handles.

........................................................................

Still scary allowing students to grab things - behind their head - that they don't understand.
This method killed a TI in Kapowsin, Washington a decade ago. The student pulled the cutaway handle too low for the reserve to inflate.

Far wiser to tell students to grab their knees and pull them up to level. Bumper suits help. This technique is especially helpful with students who have not done a sit-up in this century.


DougH  (D License)

Aug 12, 2011, 1:02 PM
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Re: [riggerrob] Tandem Landing Tips [In reply to] Can't Post

This is a good thread. I am going through the process of getting my strong rating right now.

I will say it is quite the transition going from a 100 sq foot canopy and its flare timing to these big tandem canopies.


PiLFy  (A License)

Aug 12, 2011, 3:05 PM
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Re: [riggerrob] Tandem Landing Tips [In reply to] Can't Post

OK, you guys know a lot more about it than I do. I thought my way of solving it would be helpful. Maybe I'm not making myself clear? My hands weren't behind my head. They were right on top of my clavicles. That was all I needed for leverage to swing my legs up.


inextremis  (D 6498)

Aug 13, 2011, 12:56 PM
Post #14 of 33 (3152 views)
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Re: [PiLFy] Tandem Landing Tips [In reply to] Can't Post

Go look at a Sigma passenger harness and container. On the passenger harness, the attachment webbing and hardware that attaches the passenger to the Sigma rig is about six inches long, meaning that the passenger's clavicle is roughly six to eight inches below the D ring on the container. The cutaway handle is five inches BELOW the D ring, behind the passenger's shoulder. It's good geometry in the majority of circumstances, but can be defeated if the TM lets the student reach up and back.


PiLFy  (A License)

Aug 13, 2011, 6:38 PM
Post #15 of 33 (3127 views)
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Re: [inextremis] Tandem Landing Tips [In reply to] Can't Post

Again, my hands weren't behind my shoulders Pirate. I don't see the confusion here. I hear what you're saying. I just don't think it's cool to besmirch my TI's when you weren't there. They were (& still are) very safe. I now excuse myself from an instructor's thread...


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Aug 13, 2011, 8:50 PM
Post #16 of 33 (3110 views)
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Re: [PiLFy] Tandem Landing Tips [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Again, my hands weren't behind my shoulders Pirate. I don't see the confusion here. I hear what you're saying. I just don't think it's cool to besmirch my TI's when you weren't there. They were (& still are) very safe. I now excuse myself from an instructor's thread...

.......................................................................

Relax PiLFY.
We were not accusing you directly ... rather we were criticising the concept of encouraging students to grab anything they do not understand (e.g. most of the handles on a tandem rig: second drogue release, cutaway handle, reserve ripcord, RSL, etc.).


PiLFy  (A License)

Aug 14, 2011, 7:09 AM
Post #17 of 33 (3080 views)
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Re: [riggerrob] Tandem Landing Tips [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm cool. I just don't see how grabbing MY harness...in front of MY shoulders...placed my hands near handles w/my shoulders & several inches between them. That's all.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Aug 14, 2011, 6:26 PM
Post #18 of 33 (3046 views)
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Re: [PiLFy] Tandem Landing Tips [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'm cool. I just don't see how grabbing MY harness...in front of MY shoulders...placed my hands near handles w/my shoulders & several inches between them. That's all.

........................................................................

Relax pilfy!

Again, we are not criticizing your directly.

Rather, we have seen dozens of students pull dozens of things that we never told them to grab, nor asked them to grab (pilot's seat, pilot's leg, pilot's elbow, pilot's seat belt, flap handle, fuel selector valve, outside air temperature guage, instructor's thumb, brake line, flap hinge, etc..)

The bottom line is that students grab stuff at random, often things that never crossed the instructor's mind.

For example, I used to ask tandem students to help me tighten side straps. Being right-handed, I asked them to help me tighten the right side-strap first. After a couple of students pulled the drogue release - by accident - I changed to asking to help me tighten the left side-strap first. At least then they knew what a strap end should feel like, when they fumbled for the right side-strap.
Eventually, I developed enough arm muscle that I did not need any help tightening side-straps ... even after dis-locating my shoulder during a plane crash.

In conclusion, students grab the stupidest things - at the worst possible times - so any time I see a student's hands near his shoulders, I automatically protect my cutaway and reserve handles.


robblack31  (D 26661)

Aug 14, 2011, 10:55 PM
Post #19 of 33 (3024 views)
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Re: [reynolds] Tandem Landing Tips [In reply to] Can't Post

Most people I take are able to lift their legs just fine. For the ones that cannot, like really old people, I just lift their legs with my legs. I'm not tall and its still really easy to do. I don't know why more instructors don't just do the same thing.


bart  (F 670)

Aug 15, 2011, 6:21 AM
Post #20 of 33 (2988 views)
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Re: [reynolds] Tandem Landing Tips [In reply to] Can't Post

For me it's defineatly a question of lifting the knees first and then pushing the feet foward if they can. But I don't get them to extend there legs all the way out, not more than 45 degrees past hanging straight down. I don't think there is any need, it's more important to me to make the passenger understand not to put any weight on there feet unless told to stand up.

I preffer to stand up my landings, and with the legs straight outs its difficult to do anything else other than a slide in bum landing. And its easier for the passenger!! I think is really important to make the passenger understand that when there feet contact the ground they must let there feet slide out in front of them (not to slide underneath there body or put any weight on them unless told to "stand up". This way even if there feet touch before yours they just let them slide out in front. Then once you have washed off the foward speed you just tell them to stand up, or say nothing and continue to slide in on ya ass!!! Also if you Combine this with the instructor leaning back in the harness, thus pointing the passengers knees above the horizon its even easier. I'm not tall and this allows me to stand up most of my landings.

I'm not a fan of them grabbing the harness to lift there legs, had a passenger yesterday put his thumb through my reserve handle on a micro sigma, Just because I did a turn and obviously felt a little insecure!! those sort of moments can be pretty intense!!WinkSmileSmileSmile


normiss  (D 28356)

Aug 15, 2011, 7:46 AM
Post #21 of 33 (2974 views)
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Re: [robblack31] Tandem Landing Tips [In reply to] Can't Post

You can also push them forward a LOT with your knees and hips.
On those ZERO no-wind days in the hot and humid south, makes for some challenging landings at times.
This past weekend I think I landed every tandem on my ass with students on top of me. It was HOT and HUMID so it was exhausting jumping.
But, not a single tandem had any leg issues. Even the big ones.
Attachments: 223685_2277983987632_1189737271_2851392_5466585_n.jpg (72.3 KB)


Andrewwhyte  (C 1988)

Aug 15, 2011, 8:34 AM
Post #22 of 33 (2965 views)
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Re: [PiLFy] Tandem Landing Tips [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Again, my hands weren't behind my shoulders Pirate. I don't see the confusion here. I hear what you're saying. I just don't think it's cool to besmirch my TI's when you weren't there. They were (& still are) very safe. I now excuse myself from an instructor's thread...

This is a good example of why the instructors forum was set up.


matt3sa  (D 29266)

Aug 15, 2011, 9:21 AM
Post #23 of 33 (2956 views)
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Re: [reynolds] Tandem Landing Tips [In reply to] Can't Post

Exactly what indyz said. I place the hip joints over the hip bone area and never have an issue. Just be aware that fat people with big butts are a little different. I don't live them as far forward for that body type.


lekstrom10k  (D 3001)

Aug 15, 2011, 1:19 PM
Post #24 of 33 (2918 views)
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Re: [reynolds] Tandem Landing Tips [In reply to] Can't Post

 I have them slide the leg straps down their thighs after opening as taught on the ground . We practice lifting their heels high. I tell them like at fat lady in a shoe store when feasable. If they still have problems slide the straps further like your sitting on a swing. .Then at landing feet up for the slide no problems. We have many different canopies but this works on all. For standups I tell them its like walking off a escalator when we touch . You dont let your soles chirp when you touch the ground. This has worked for 20+ plus years so you can try it with out woories.


PiLFy  (A License)

Aug 15, 2011, 2:05 PM
Post #25 of 33 (2909 views)
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Re: [riggerrob] Tandem Landing Tips [In reply to] Can't Post

Me B coool breeze, Mahn...Cool


"In conclusion, students grab the stupidest things - at the worst possible times - so any time I see a student's hands near his shoulders, I automatically protect my cutaway and reserve handles."

I don't fault you.


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