Aug 7, 2011, 7:42 PM
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Para Commander question
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Have a young guy at our DZ who wanted to jump a PC. So I went to my hanger loft and dug out a couple of PC’s. One is in pretty nice condition so I put it together in a Mini-System main container. I also put a 26 lopo in a Strong Pop Top Reserve (what a bitch to pack).
Anyway after some instruction I spotted for him yesterday on his first PC jump. Everything went well and he even made another, then today he made his 3rd. Kid is getting addicted to it.
I think he is amazed at the quiet, peaceful ride you get compared to the squares which are a bit noisy with their forward speed and flapping materials. Also kind of neat to see a PC in the air after all these years.
My question regards the openings. He stated that the first opening was a bit hard, the 2nd was softer and the 3rd was also rather hard.
He plans on jumping it on a regular bases and now some of the other jumpers want to try it.
With several hundred jumps on PC’s myself, I can’t recall anything that I would consider hard but then again I really don’t remember.
Can anyone remember if there was a way to slow down or soften the opening shock on these?
Aug 7, 2011, 8:13 PM
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Re: [captain1976] Para Commander question
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I jumped a Piglet back then. I have a few jumps(couple dozen) on a P.C. So take this in that light/vein/spirit. How soft an opening does he expect? All the jumps I have on a P.C. seemed snivelly, and slow in comparison. Almost scarily slow.
I'm not sure I would even classify it as opening "shock"
lisa
p.s. If he wants to keep jumping a round, I hope you will teach him how to spot.
Aug 7, 2011, 8:22 PM
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Re: [oldwomanc6] Para Commander question
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I'm not sure I would even classify it as opening "shock"
I really don't know but he jumps a square and its obviously harder than that. I ain't jumpin' the PC myself so I just have to take his word that its kind of hard.
p.s. If he wants to keep jumping a round, I hope you will teach him how to spot.
He's a pretty good spotter but I warned him to be prepared for an off DZ landing on occasion.
Aug 8, 2011, 5:38 AM
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Re: [captain1976] Para Commander question
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I always do because the standard size rubber bands are to loose and require a double stow due to line type. Yes you could use the smaller rubber bands, I don't like them so I choose to double. Same with main lines, only if needed, but NOT the locking stows...
Also what type of deployment system are you using? Sleeve or POD ?
Aug 8, 2011, 5:43 AM
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Re: [captain1976] Para Commander question
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Captain, If the PC is in a sleeve then yes, double stow the crown lines. this ensures the suspension lines deploy first and leads to a nice in sequence deployment. it also prevents bag slump. I had a hard opening on a PC in a sleeve once but it was due to the PC being a short lined comp model. Just remember not to double stow the crown lines if it's in a POD. this can cause a delay in opening if you’re at sub terminal and at 1500 feet. I learned that the hard way. ATW, Cael
Aug 8, 2011, 4:39 PM
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Re: [captain1976] Para Commander question
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If he thinks a PC is hard what would he think about a Strato Cloud? He's probably used to these new ramairs that streamer for 800' and finally clear.
I used to think my PC was a little hard, until I realized that I was never stopping my track from break off and pulling in a track!
I have my old comp PC in a sleeva and a rig to put it in. I also have a RW PC that still needs a couple of patches. But I have to loose some weight before I jump them.
Aug 8, 2011, 5:42 PM
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Re: [councilman24] Para Commander question
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I have my old comp PC in a sleeva and a rig to put it in. I also have a RW PC that still needs a couple of patches. But I have to loose some weight before I jump them.
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That is a good point....What is an acceptable weight on a PC, and how much does this guy weigh ?
Aug 8, 2011, 6:22 PM
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Re: [lucky508] Para Commander question
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Captain, If the PC is in a sleeve then yes, double stow the crown lines. this ensures the suspension lines deploy first and leads to a nice in sequence deployment. it also prevents bag slump. I had a hard opening on a PC in a sleeve once but it was due to the PC being a short lined comp model. Just remember not to double stow the crown lines if it's in a POD. this can cause a delay in opening if you’re at sub terminal and at 1500 feet. I learned that the hard way. ATW, Cael
The PC is a Mark I and has been shortlined, but not to the real short comp length. Its in a short sleeve with the crowns stowed at the top. I can't say I recall what a POD is, was that what the bag was called?
Anyway I will take yours and Stratostars advise. I will make sure the crowns are double stowed along with the main lines.
Thanks all, I will report back after he makes some jumps this weekend.
(This post was edited by captain1976 on Aug 8, 2011, 6:24 PM)
Aug 9, 2011, 6:14 AM
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Re: [captain1976] Para Commander question
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You have the one deployment system I have not used nor owned. However it all works the same over all. A POD is a lot like a strong tandem main deployment d-bag today that opens up with velcro on the sides, only bigger like the size of a stylemaster or retro container pack tray like that. You have to make your folds shorter, it's just like making your S folds with a long sleeve, only you make your folds and then place in the POD.
With a POD (same as sleeve), I still double the main stows if there loose in the big rubbers, I also double the crown lines, but then again I chose to use the large rubbers and not the smalls like a lot of guys do now.
Almost everyone not from back in the day I have ever let jump a round all bitch about the opening shock, it's because they only know 1000 foot openings now and their not used to it making them slump in the harness like that. I know they are fine, because I test jumped each and every one of them and did all the packing. If they keep bitching then don't do long delays..... mostly it's "stop being a pussy and go jump it"
I have a couple mark ones too, a PAP, two jumbos, someone asked about weight for a PC. My personal comfort range is 180 (or less) up to 200 without gear, anymore then 200 your going to pound in unless it's a jumbo and even then you better be able to do a good PLF and today's kiddies couldn't do a good PLF to save their asses if it won them a million bucks.
@ 190 LBS without gear, I regularly could get rear riser stand up landings on my MK 1 short lined and my long line MK1, 23 Russian or PAP, all jumbos are softer landings.
(This post was edited by stratostar on Aug 9, 2011, 6:16 AM)
Aug 9, 2011, 9:22 PM
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Re: [captain1976] Para Commander question
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I highly doubt you'll stuff a jumbo into a mini system, I own one and it's a tight ass bitch with a mk 1 in it. you need a style master or the like, not mini.
Aug 9, 2011, 9:38 PM
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Re: [councilman24] Para Commander question
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until I realized that I was never stopping my track from break off and pulling in a track!
I have always felt that was sort of an urban legend. Unless you are in a dive during your track you should not be going faster than standard freefall speeds. In most cases slower i.e. wing suits. I believe the reason it may have felt harder is you have a more drastic change in direction.
Aug 16, 2011, 9:20 PM
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Re: [captain1976] Para Commander question
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Hi captain,
Personal experience: I started jumping a PC in Nov '64. The original PC sleeve was known as a 'long' sleeve in that the crown lines were not stowed, they just sat straight in the upper portion of the long sleeve.
It would hit me very hard at terminal; I could only take one of those openings a weekend.
After about 6 months or so I got a X-BO short sleeve which had stows for the crown lines. It made all the difference in the world. From that day on, I only jumped the X-BO sleeve and had the softest of openings.
Aug 17, 2011, 5:16 AM
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Re: [JerryBaumchen] Para Commander question
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It dose help a lot Jerry when guys like you speak up, helps other to dust off the brain cells. I forgot about the long sleeves, your correct about that non stow section in the crown area. Once you posted that, it made me recall packing one in a collection a few years ago..... it was the only one in the collection too. There is a shit load of extra sleeve up there to S fold.
Aug 20, 2011, 3:40 PM
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Re: [stratostar] Para Commander question
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The line used to attach the sleeve should be as long as the sleeve. I would guess the one you are using is shorter than that? I second the recommendation to make sure the crown lines are stowed tightly.
Aug 21, 2011, 10:53 AM
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Re: [JerryBaumchen] Para Commander question
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Jerry, Sounds like you have the right Jim Cone. I moved to California from Washington in 1970 and pretty much retired from jumping - bad back, bad arm, new wife, new job. Still have original packing manual for the PC - like new except I wrote my name on it. If PC's beome popular again, maybe there will be some value to it.<g> I see bell bottom pants (ugh) are coming back into fashion. '--- Jim Cone Portland, Oregon USA http://www.mediafire.com/PrimitiveSoftware (free and commercial excel programs)
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