Forums: Skydiving: Instructors:
AFFI's with "busy hands"

 


skinnay

Jul 26, 2011, 1:55 PM
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AFFI's with "busy hands" Can't Post

Every now and then I hear complaints from aff students that an aff instructor is moving his hands so much the student didnt know what hand signals the instructor was giving them.

The student is nervous and focused on your hands for instruction. Maybe its just a habit, but you should be able to fly well enough to hold your slot with still hands. I'm just curious what instructors think about this?


Scrumpot  (D License)

Jul 26, 2011, 2:16 PM
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Re: [skinnay] AFFI's with "busy hands" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Every now and then I hear complaints from aff students that an aff instructor is moving his hands so much the student didnt know what hand signals the instructor was giving them.

I have honestly never heard this before. I always emphasize actually, eye contact. If I am going to give a student a signal - it is always quite deliberate, and right "in their face".


In reply to:
...but you should be able to fly well enough to hold your slot with still hands.
I agree.

EDITED TO ADD: A couple of picture attachment examples


(This post was edited by Scrumpot on Jul 26, 2011, 2:20 PM)
Attachments: Legs-Out.jpg (28.2 KB)
  Thumbs-up!.jpg (28.9 KB)


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Jul 26, 2011, 2:27 PM
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Re: [Scrumpot] AFFI's with "busy hands" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
always emphasize actually, eye contact

"CHECK IN" and stop there, smile at me, let me know you are checking in and not just glancing and all fuzzy brained
- (bonus points to student that give me signals - Tongue)



still hands are great - sometimes it's a bit of work though to hold a good signal for those that REALLY need them -

I think for the really difficult students, it's also great to have the teamwork where on reserve side, I want to help that student be stable enough that the main side doesn't have to work to the limit just to get a good set of signals off. And conversely when on main side, appreciate that reserve side by giving those definite signals that he helped you get out there


pchapman  (D 1014)

Jul 26, 2011, 2:32 PM
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Re: [skinnay] AFFI's with "busy hands" [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, one has to take one's time with signals, since it obviously takes the student longer to see, recognize, and react to a hand signal, than it takes for the instructor to think about them.

So flashing 'arch', 'legs out', and 'relax' in about 2 seconds is going to be a waste of time.

I do see that you are talking more about what the hands are doing when NOT signalling, than what they are doing when signalling. But at least if the signals are clearer and steady, it helps to distinguish them if the instructor normally lets his hands bounce around more in the air.

(Also, for instructors at the student's side rather than flying in front, don't stick your hand 4" infront of the student's nose, or they won't even be able to focus their eyes...)


Scrumpot  (D License)

Jul 26, 2011, 2:49 PM
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Re: [rehmwa] AFFI's with "busy hands" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
bonus points to student that give me signals

Like this? Cool

Let's turn this into a picture(s) thread! Smile
Attachments: IMG_2612a.jpg (191 KB)


JerseyShawn  (Student)

Jul 26, 2011, 4:48 PM
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Re: [Scrumpot] AFFI's with "busy hands" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
bonus points to student that give me signals

Like this? Cool

Let's turn this into a picture(s) thread! Smile

Isn't the student suppose to pay attention to altitude, not the video camera flyerTongue, or is that just a recommendation in the SIMS?


ZigZagMarquis  (D License)

Jul 26, 2011, 7:37 PM
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Re: [skinnay] AFFI's with "busy hands" [In reply to] Can't Post

Huh... thought this was going to be another thread about AFFI's feelin'-up students... Crazy


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Jul 26, 2011, 10:39 PM
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Re: [JerseyShawn] AFFI's with "busy hands" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Isn't the student suppose to pay attention to altitude, not the video camera flyerTongue, or is that just a recommendation in the SIMS?
I'm sure he just finished a COA. Tongue

Seriously, a video flyer shooting AFF needs to read the student and make sure the student doesn't get too distracted. If so, the video flyer needs to leave the student's field of vision, IMO. Any camera flyers or other AFF instructors with a different opinion?


DBCOOPER  (D 24112)

Jul 27, 2011, 4:47 AM
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Re: [ZigZagMarquis] AFFI's with "busy hands" [In reply to] Can't Post

Honest, I was just checking the chest strap...


djmarvin  (D 22292)

Jul 27, 2011, 5:05 AM
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Re: [skinnay] AFFI's with "busy hands" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Every now and then I hear complaints from aff students that an aff instructor is moving his hands so much the student didnt know what hand signals the instructor was giving them.

The student is nervous and focused on your hands for instruction. Maybe its just a habit, but you should be able to fly well enough to hold your slot with still hands. I'm just curious what instructors think about this?

I have heard of this before as well. This complaint typicaly happens on release jumps that are in facing two ways. Instructors need to learn to fly "quiet" as not to distract the student. It is commonly nervous energy when the AFF-I is noisy.


Chris_K  (C 3228)

Jul 27, 2011, 6:09 AM
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Re: [JohnMitchell] AFFI's with "busy hands" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Isn't the student suppose to pay attention to altitude, not the video camera flyerTongue, or is that just a recommendation in the SIMS?
I'm sure he just finished a COA. Tongue

Seriously, a video flyer shooting AFF needs to read the student and make sure the student doesn't get too distracted. If so, the video flyer needs to leave the student's field of vision, IMO. Any camera flyers or other AFF instructors with a different opinion?

I agree completely. I do both AFF and camera and students can get fizated on geeking out for the camera. If that starts to happen, fly around, up, down, whatever to get out of the students feild of view while still making the shot look cool. Once a student goes back to there tasks its usually ok to drop to there periferal and snap face shots. Of course THAT call depends entirely on the student. Some are great, others have the attention span of a cat when they see a camera.


rmarshall234  (D 18793)

Jul 27, 2011, 7:04 AM
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Re: [skinnay] AFFI's with "busy hands" [In reply to] Can't Post

I believe the best Instructors demonstrate a sense of calm in freefall. Busy hands, too many signals, over-controlling a student - these are all demonstrations of an Instructor's own anxiety. Students (not unlike children) are quick to pick up on these things. Be calm and demonstrate your calm and good things will follow. That's what I believe.


peregrinerose  (D 28983)

Jul 27, 2011, 10:07 AM
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Re: [rmarshall234] AFFI's with "busy hands" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I believe the best Instructors demonstrate a sense of calm in freefall. Busy hands, too many signals, over-controlling a student - these are all demonstrations of an Instructor's own anxiety. Students (not unlike children) are quick to pick up on these things. Be calm and demonstrate your calm and good things will follow. That's what I believe.

Just quoting you because this is phenominal advice.


ZigZagMarquis  (D License)

Jul 27, 2011, 5:33 PM
Post #14 of 19 (1836 views)
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Re: [peregrinerose] AFFI's with "busy hands" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I believe the best Instructors demonstrate a sense of calm in freefall. Busy hands, too many signals, over-controlling a student - these are all demonstrations of an Instructor's own anxiety. Students (not unlike children) are quick to pick up on these things. Be calm and demonstrate your calm and good things will follow. That's what I believe.

Just quoting you because this is phenominal advice.


What would you then think of an AFFI that smacks a student in freefall? Crazy


jtiflyer  (D 27430)

Jul 27, 2011, 5:48 PM
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Re: [ZigZagMarquis] AFFI's with "busy hands" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What would you then think of an AFFI that smacks a student in freefall? Crazy

Depends, did they need to be told twiceTongue


stratostar  (Student)

Jul 28, 2011, 6:22 AM
Post #16 of 19 (1715 views)
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Re: [ZigZagMarquis] AFFI's with "busy hands" [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
What would you then think of an AFFI that smacks a student in freefall?

Did it get them to snap out of it? I think that once we leave the plane, it's my job to take some control and direct/instruct the student during the jump. That job may require under taking and using every trick in the book to maintain safety, if you need a smack up side your damn helmet in order to get your attention as to what is going on, well guess what.....

That is right, your getting a smack up side your helmet!


Premier SkymonkeyONE  (D 12501)

Jul 28, 2011, 10:28 AM
Post #17 of 19 (1671 views)
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Re: [stratostar] AFFI's with "busy hands" [In reply to] Can't Post

slapping an AFF student on the wrist to get them "back in the game" and focusing on altitude is very, very common. Here, slapping either wrist means "check altitude and look for signals"


stratostar  (Student)

Jul 28, 2011, 10:36 AM
Post #18 of 19 (1668 views)
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Re: [SkymonkeyONE] AFFI's with "busy hands" [In reply to] Can't Post

yea I know, same here, that is why I didn't check alti, I said smack you up side your head on your helmet to wake your ass up. If were at the point of busting one up side your head, we done already went thru the full deck and are now dealing jokers.

FMI- we're not talking punch or hard blow here, but yes I've seen a few head taps before.in order to get a student to look @ an instructor.


Fast  (D 28237)

Jul 29, 2011, 3:08 PM
Post #19 of 19 (1550 views)
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Re: [stratostar] AFFI's with "busy hands" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
yea I know, same here, that is why I didn't check alti, I said smack you up side your head on your helmet to wake your ass up. If were at the point of busting one up side your head, we done already went thru the full deck and are now dealing jokers.

FMI- we're not talking punch or hard blow here, but yes I've seen a few head taps before.in order to get a student to look @ an instructor.

Yeah, a poor body position student who isn't even thinking about thinking of looking at instructors can be woken up with a reasonable rap on the helmet. I have experienced that they always look at me with a "wtf did you do that for" look, and then realize where exactly they are.

I gently will tap tandem students on the top of the head if they spend the whole time starring at the ground and never look at the camera too, saves giving refunds for "omg you didn't get any pictures of my face.'



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