Forums: Skydiving: Tandem Skydiving:
Helmets / Frap Hats on Tandem Students

 


Poll: Helmets / Frap Hats on Tandem Students
Always put Helmets on Tandem Students 22 / 37%
Offer Helmets as an option for Tandem Students 11 / 19%
Never put Helmets on Tandem Students 26 / 44%
59 total votes
 
upperpi  (D License)

Jul 21, 2011, 1:16 PM
Post #1 of 11 (3805 views)
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Helmets / Frap Hats on Tandem Students Can't Post

The question came up at my Drop Zone "Are Helmets on Tandem Students Mandatory?". Up til now the answer has been yes, but I have jumped at a few other DZ's as a TI and they don't require (or even have) frap hats. Would like opinions


skyrider  (D 14710)

Jul 21, 2011, 4:32 PM
Post #2 of 11 (3662 views)
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Re: [upperpi] Helmets / Frap Hats on Tandem Students [In reply to] Can't Post

I don;t see the frap hat option, reads like No helmet!

But for what Tandems face? I'd say frap or No helmet..


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Jul 21, 2011, 4:42 PM
Post #3 of 11 (3653 views)
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Re: [upperpi] Helmets / Frap Hats on Tandem Students [In reply to] Can't Post

In the US they are not required by USPA or two of the three manufacturers, but it is not enforced, so I guess it is not mandatory.

Matt


peek  (D 8884)

Jul 21, 2011, 6:21 PM
Post #4 of 11 (3613 views)
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Re: [upperpi] Helmets / Frap Hats on Tandem Students [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The question came up at my Drop Zone "Are Helmets on Tandem Students Mandatory?". Up til now the answer has been yes, but I have jumped at a few other DZ's as a TI and they don't require (or even have) frap hats. Would like opinions

There is no option for "Boobies" or "Frappe Hat". Do we have to tell you everything? Smile


feuergnom  (D License)

Jul 22, 2011, 2:16 AM
Post #5 of 11 (3514 views)
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Re: [upperpi] Helmets / Frap Hats on Tandem Students [In reply to] Can't Post

in a sue-happy country like the u.s. i find it hard to believe head protection for tandem passengers are not mandatory, easy enough to bump your head somewhere in the plane...

as for helmet or frapp-hat: i wouldn't want to get hit in the face by a hard helmet...


upperpi  (D License)

Jul 22, 2011, 5:07 AM
Post #6 of 11 (3479 views)
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Re: [feuergnom] Helmets / Frap Hats on Tandem Students [In reply to] Can't Post

Guess I should Clarify.... Frap hat = Helmet.... Never use hard helmets on Tandem Students.... Some people call a frap hat a helmet which is why I labeled the post with a " /".....


peek  (D 8884)

Jul 22, 2011, 5:09 AM
Post #7 of 11 (3477 views)
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Re: [feuergnom] Helmets / Frap Hats on Tandem Students [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
in a sue-happy country like the u.s. i find it hard to believe head protection for tandem passengers are not mandatory, easy enough to bump your head somewhere in the plane.

I think the sport keeps "dodging the bullets" because most lawsuits are a result of a fatality or a serious injury, which probably will not happen just because a tandem student is not wearing head protection.

1. If a 10-way leaving the airplane makes it stall and everyone remaining inside is thrown about and hits their heads really hard, they can always abort the jump. A pissed off customer maybe, but no lawsuit.

2. If a tandem has problems landing and needs to do something like a PLF and the student gets a bloody head from hitting their head on a rock hidden in the grass, again, a pissed off student, but probably no lawsuit.

It seems like people need to break legs and such to make them want to sue.

I often wonder how many tandem students actually hit their head on something, but no tandem instructor is going to admit to that, because most of them I have ever heard that vehemently oppose the requirement of head protection claim they are capable of "protecting their student".


eUrNiCc  (D 28406)

Jul 22, 2011, 11:42 AM
Post #8 of 11 (3387 views)
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Re: [peek] Helmets / Frap Hats on Tandem Students [In reply to] Can't Post

Frap hats really only offer much protection from small bumps in the airplane. If the student whacks their head on the ground on landing, it'll provide a little abrasion protection, but it won't really do anything to prevent a concussion or brain injury. I don't think many instructors would sign up to jump if the students were given hard helmets that actually would help protect from serious bonks to the head.
If liability is the main concern here, just give the student the option of wearing a frap hat or not and make them initial a paragraph in the waiver saying, "I am aware that the use of a soft helmet is optional and I may choose not to wear a helmet at my own risk."
I think having our students wear $350 paragliding boots would do a whole lot more to prevent the most common types of student injuries.


Rover  (D 241)

Jul 22, 2011, 2:23 PM
Post #9 of 11 (3354 views)
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Re: [upperpi] Helmets / Frap Hats on Tandem Students [In reply to] Can't Post

Legally required in New Zealand


normiss  (D 28356)

Jul 24, 2011, 9:35 PM
Post #10 of 11 (3264 views)
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Re: [matthewcline] Helmets / Frap Hats on Tandem Students [In reply to] Can't Post

Strong now requires them to be used.
Crazy


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Jul 26, 2011, 8:30 AM
Post #11 of 11 (3192 views)
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Re: [normiss] Helmets / Frap Hats on Tandem Students [In reply to] Can't Post

We use frap hats for our students. That also used to be the headgear of choice for the TM's. I remember switching to a hard helmet years ago for tandems. It seemed like a good idea, especially the way some students can jam you in the door. Now it seems a lot of TM's wear hard helmets.

The frap hat keeps their hair from blowing around too much, keeps their head a little warmer on those cold days (quite a few in the Pacific NW) and reduces the wind noise in their ears. Every time I jump without a helmet I'm amazed just how noisy it is in freefall. So I like a helmet on my tandem students but I don't consider it a HUGE safety issue. After all, I have to be awake to make a safe landing, but the student doesn't.


(This post was edited by JohnMitchell on Jul 26, 2011, 8:31 AM)



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