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Proper signals on student jumps after solo status?

 


Skydog73  (C License)

Jul 20, 2011, 3:09 PM
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Proper signals on student jumps after solo status? Can't Post

Hello all,

New here, and I have a question, on a load a few weeks back I heard a coach (with no AFF rating yet) reviewing hand signals with a student who had successfully passed their self supervised level last year but had yet earned their A, he showed that student the pull sign to make sure they knew what it meant, however the following week I heard another coach (also with no AFF rating) tell their student to forget the single finger out pull sign, that it no longer exists, and was showing them the arm wave we use to signal they should turn, track away, and deploy, they mentioned that even if they would do this arm roll (hope I am explaining this correctly, the arm wave I am reffering to is kind of like what a show case girl on the price is right would do introducing a prize) with one finger out instead of of an open hand as I was taught this doesn't mean pull, it means turn away and track. I said so you tell them the pull sign no longer means anything? they said yes, as a coach we are not allowed to use that signal and would be in violation of the USPA rules....

I believe the IRM states that we are not to assit in deployment, which I take as I am not to physically touch the students pilot chute, and if they do not pull by 3500' then I am to turn, track and deploy, but I do not remember it saying we can not use the pull sign if we believe it would save a life? Now at this point I believe we shouldn't need to use it, the student should be very altitude aware, but what if they are focused on a manuver and looking to us for approval on their last manuver and below I spot something and I believe the best action to save their life is to pull, such as someone tracking below us, or pre mature deployment below, notice their pilot chute working it's way out, their altimeter falls off, etc. I feel I would be better off telling them to pull instead of worrying about confusing them trying to point out the problem.

My questions are this, first does it state somewhere that after self supervised status we can not use the pull sign for emergencies?

Also if it does say that somewhere, and that situation happened to arise, would you do it anyway?

Ultimately my goal is to get us all on the same page here so as student move around we avoid confusion, I personally know that either way if I saw a plane below me and a student, I wouldn't want to risk precious time trying to get him/her to understand what I am trying to show them, or risk giving them the track away and deploy movement and risk them tracking further into danger if I felt deploying was the safest bet, and although them seeing me deploy should tell them something is up and they need to deploy, I think a clear pull sign followed by my action of deploying would be more precise. Hopefully I never need to do this, but like I said I want to get rid of which ever way is wrong, even if by cahnce I disagree.

Thanks for reading, I left my SIM and IRM at a friends house last weekend, and won't be back there for a week, but was also curious on what people thought about these 2 different thought processes regardless of what the IRM actually states.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Jul 20, 2011, 4:31 PM
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Re: [Skydog73] Proper signals on student jumps after solo status? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I heard another coach (also with no AFF rating) tell their student to forget the single finger out pull sign, that it no longer exists.....I said so you tell them the pull sign no longer means anything? they said yes, as a coach we are not allowed to use that signal and would be in violation of the USPA rules....
He's incorrect. Ask him to show you where in the SIM or IRM it says that.
The index finger pull sign is standard and is valid forever.

For Coach jumps another sign that is used is the "big wave" with full-length arms waving back and forth in front (freefall/skydive is over).

One reason for that is that Coaches quite often are not as near the student as necessary. The "big wave" is much more visible from a distance.

In reply to:
...and was showing them the arm wave we use to signal they should turn, track away, and deploy, ..... the arm wave I am reffering to is kind of like what a show case girl on the price is right would do introducing a prize

Your description of the "arm wave" seems like is what AFFIs are trained to do when they want somebody to either look at something or do something specific. It's just a hand position, not a full-length arms waving.

For example, if I was on the plane pointing out ground references, I would not point my index finger, I would indicate direction with a flat open palm with all fingers extended in the direction I want them to look, never pointing with just an index finger so as to avoid confusion)
An index finger mans Pull...nothing else.

In the air,, that's how we tell them which direction to go.
If I gave them a flat open palm pointing in a direction it would mean go that direction.

If I was spinning that flat open palm at the wrist, it would mean "turn".

If I spun it and then pointed it would mean "turn and go".

In reply to:
I believe the IRM states that we are not to assit in deployment, which I take as I am not to physically touch the students pilot chute, and if they do not pull by 3500' then I am to turn, track and deploy,

That is correct except I'm not too sure on that altitude. I use a more conservative altitude on Coach jumps but then again, my AFFI skills come into play too so you can't go by what I would do.

In reply to:
but I do not remember it saying we can not use the pull sign if we believe it would save a life?..... I feel I would be better off telling them to pull instead of worrying about confusing them trying to point out the problem.

Good on you.

In reply to:
My questions are this, first does it state somewhere that after self supervised status we can not use the pull sign for emergencies?

No

In reply to:
Also if it does say that somewhere, and that situation happened to arise, would you do it anyway?

Yes

In reply to:
Ultimately my goal is to get us all on the same page here

It ain't a-gonna happen.


In reply to:
...if I felt deploying was the safest bet, and although them seeing me deploy should tell them something is up and they need to deploy, I think a clear pull sign followed by my action of deploying would be more precise.

No. YOU pull. Don't waste altitude trying to give a signal that may or may not be seen. YOU pulling is more visible and is a more "do it now" indicator.

In reply to:
Hopefully I never need to do this,

Oh, you will...count on it....every Coach jump. Don't let it sneak up on you when you least expect it.


Be aware....you're going to get some different answers than what I provided. When you get your SIM and IRM...do the research for yourself, eh?


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Jul 20, 2011, 4:41 PM
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Re: [Skydog73] Proper signals on student jumps after solo status? [In reply to] Can't Post

PS:

Hopefully a Coach Course Director will pipe in here.


tdog  (D 28800)

Jul 20, 2011, 5:48 PM
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Re: [Skydog73] Proper signals on student jumps after solo status? [In reply to] Can't Post

As far as I am concerned, the pull signal works for any skydiver from 1 to 10,000 jumps. On the 3rd jump I teach the skydiver that if I am waving, it means I am waving to pull and they should do the same. I explain the reason is they may be too far away to see the pull signal. So both hand signals mean the same thing to me - pull... If I want the student to track away and pull, I wave them off with a "move over there" hand signal or a waive that looks like a "good bye" instead of both hands waving over the head like "I am going to pull".

Why should the hand signals stay universal? Say your best friend had a horseshoe malfunction where they need to pull their PC right away to solve the problem. What would you do? Say your friend is acting very weird and you suspect they are having a medical emergency where they need to be reminded to pull. What would you do? The pull signal is useful. Both of these stories are stolen from incident reports.


My philosophy... A coach should not feel obligated to pull for a student, and a student should not expect their coach to pull for them. Nor should they expect to give the "pull signal". The coach instead should aggressively track away at the planned break off time and glance over their shoulder to see if their student is doing the same.

That being said, if a student is injured, unconscious, medically impaired, or something like that - all bets are off I would do my best to help a friend in need, if they were an AFF student, coach student, or another instructor.

The fear is that a coach will try to be a hero for a coach student that does not need their help - and cause the situation to be worse. AFF instructors are theoretically tested for their flying skills and trained for various EPs. Coaches are not tested for these things.

So my advice, if your student needs to do something - communicate it via hand signals until break off, at which time track like you would with any other jumper... Unless they are unable to help themselves for a real emergency, and then do what you can to help them ignoring the rules as all rules are off when a friend is in serious need. But even then, you have a hard deck and you eventually need to leave letting the AAD do it's job.


(This post was edited by tdog on Jul 20, 2011, 5:59 PM)


Skydog73  (C License)

Jul 21, 2011, 8:48 AM
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Re: [Skydog73] Proper signals on student jumps after solo status? [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks all, I hope a Coach IE chimes in too, ( i have a call into mine, he is out of the country for a week) and I agree with all of you. The arm wave I refer to is less of a wave, and more of an open palm arm pointing as if to say "go that way and deploy.

I believe the minimum altitude is 3500' but I could be wrong on that (just ordered a 2nd set of IRM & SIM last night to leave one at the office and one at the DZ), I use 4500' for these jumps as this seems to put the student below the tandems and AFF level 1-8 people but above the usual fun jumpers. I personally like to pull at 4000' foot anyway.

I do explain to a student that if they see me track away and pull they should be doing the same, that either something is up, or they are not altitude aware and either way if I am pulling they should follow suit, and I agree if they are far away that would be the better sign, I was mostly thinking of times like a horse shoe, or if they looked like they might pass out, something below us, but above the hard deck etc. trust me as I said I like to be deployed at 4000' but will go to 3500' if I have to, but by 3000' I am doing what I need to do, I fully plan on heading home each night.

Thanks again and I look forward to more responces on what you would do especially form a coach IE.

As for never getting on the same page, well to a point I agree, but we have started having bi monthly instructor meetings and I must say this has stopped alot of confusion, and helped stream line our exits, gear checks, and cleaned up the hand signals differences, gets rid of the he said she said stuff, and I would like to discuss this one at the next meeting. I highly recommend this to any DZ not having them already, it is really amazing what 1 hour on a saturday night clears up.


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Jul 21, 2011, 9:28 AM
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Re: [Skydog73] Proper signals on student jumps after solo status? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Hello all,

New here, and I have a question, on a load a few weeks back I heard a coach (with no AFF rating yet) reviewing hand signals with a student who had successfully passed their self supervised level last year but had yet earned their A, he showed that student the pull sign to make sure they knew what it meant, however the following week I heard another coach (also with no AFF rating) tell their student to forget the single finger out pull sign, that it no longer existsWrong, Pull means Pull period., and was showing them the arm wave we use to signal they should turn, track away, and deploy, they mentioned that even if they would do this arm roll (hope I am explaining this correctly, the arm wave I am reffering to is kind of like what a show case girl on the price is right would do introducing a prize) with one finger out instead of of an open hand as I was taught this doesn't mean pull, it means turn away and track. I said so you tell them the pull sign no longer means anything? they said yes, as a coach we are not allowed to use that signal and would be in violation of the USPA rules....Incorrect

I believe the IRM states that we are not to assit in deployment, which I take as I am not to physically touch the students pilot chuteCorrect, and if they do not pull by 3500' then I am to turn, track and deploy, but I do not remember it saying we can not use the pull sign if we believe it would save a life? The confusion could be the actions a Coach SHOULD take here, Signal an Altitude Check, Wave off, turn Track and Deploy NLT 3500' Now at this point I believe we shouldn't need to use it, the student should be very altitude aware, but what if they are focused on a manuver and looking to us for approval on their last manuver and below I spot something and I believe the best action to save their life is to pull, such as someone tracking below us, or pre mature deployment below, notice their pilot chute working it's way out, their altimeter falls off, etc. I feel I would be better off telling them to pull instead of worrying about confusing them trying to point out the problem. Judgment call but a good use of the signal in a few of those scenarios.

My questions are this, first does it state somewhere that after self supervised status we can not use the pull sign for emergencies? No

Also if it does say that somewhere, and that situation happened to arise, would you do it anyway?

Ultimately my goal is to get us all on the same page here so as student move around we avoid confusion, I personally know that either way if I saw a plane below me and a student, I wouldn't want to risk precious time trying to get him/her to understand what I am trying to show them, or risk giving them the track away and deploy movement and risk them tracking further into danger if I felt deploying was the safest bet, and although them seeing me deploy should tell them something is up and they need to deploy, I think a clear pull sign followed by my action of deploying would be more precise. Hopefully I never need to do this, but like I said I want to get rid of which ever way is wrong, even if by cahnce I disagree.

Thanks for reading, I left my SIM and IRM at a friends house last weekend, and won't be back there for a week, but was also curious on what people thought about these 2 different thought processes regardless of what the IRM actually states.

Stick to the Standardized AFF type hand signals all the way through and things should be fine.

Matt


ufk22  (D 16168)

Jul 21, 2011, 9:29 AM
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Re: [Skydog73] Proper signals on student jumps after solo status? [In reply to] Can't Post

 
I am a Coach-E
In reply to:
New here, and I have a question, on a load a few weeks back I heard a coach (with no AFF rating yet) reviewing hand signals with a student who had successfully passed their self supervised level last year but had yet earned their A, he showed that student the pull sign to make sure they knew what it meant, however the following week I heard another coach (also with no AFF rating) tell their student to forget the single finger out pull sign, that it no longer exists, and was showing them the arm wave we use to signal they should turn, track away, and deploy, they mentioned that even if they would do this arm roll (hope I am explaining this correctly, the arm wave I am reffering to is kind of like what a show case girl on the price is right would do introducing a prize) with one finger out instead of of an open hand as I was taught this doesn't mean pull, it means turn away and track. I said so you tell them the pull sign no longer means anything? they said yes, as a coach we are not allowed to use that signal and would be in violation of the USPA rules....
I believe the IRM states that we are not to assit in deployment, which I take as I am not to physically touch the students pilot chute, and if they do not pull by 3500' then I am to turn, track and deploy, but I do not remember it saying we can not use the pull sign if we believe it would save a life? Now at this point I believe we shouldn't need to use it, the student should be very altitude aware, but what if they are focused on a manuver and looking to us for approval on their last manuver and below I spot something and I believe the best action to save their life is to pull, such as someone tracking below us, or pre mature deployment below, notice their pilot chute working it's way out, their altimeter falls off, etc. I feel I would be better off telling them to pull instead of worrying about confusing them trying to point out the problem.

My questions are this, first does it state somewhere that after self supervised status we can not use the pull sign for emergencies?
No, a coach (or any skydiver) can use whatever hand signals they wish with any other skydiver, no matter the student status. I can see both sides of this. On the one hand, keep things the same, pull signals always means pull. On the other hand, if you have a low-time student in the air and the coach or another jumper point down (to indicate a bad spot) or points at their altimeter (I know this isn't a valid hand signal, but I've seen it done many times) you don't necessarily want the student to immediately pull.
I'd say either is OK, as long as it's discussed with the student before the jump AND there is consistancy between the various coaches on the DZ.
That being said, unless you fly right in the students face, a pull sign can be hard to see from 10-20 feet away.
The proper procedure for a coached dive is...
The student should wave off, turn and initiate a track by 5500'. If they don't, the coach should immediately wave off. If the student does not then turn and begin to track, the coach should immediately turn, track to gain sufficient separation, and deploy by or above 3500.
I can easily watch a student either over my shoulder or between my legs as I track off, just to be sure the student isn't following behind.



Also if it does say that somewhere, and that situation happened to arise, would you do it anyway?

Ultimately my goal is to get us all on the same page here so as student move around we avoid confusion, I personally know that either way if I saw a plane below me and a student, I wouldn't want to risk precious time trying to get him/her to understand what I am trying to show them, or risk giving them the track away and deploy movement and risk them tracking further into danger if I felt deploying was the safest bet, and although them seeing me deploy should tell them something is up and they need to deploy, I think a clear pull sign followed by my action of deploying would be more precise. Hopefully I never need to do this, but like I said I want to get rid of which ever way is wrong, even if by cahnce I disagree.

Thanks for reading, I left my SIM and IRM at a friends house last weekend, and won't be back there for a week, but was also curious on what people thought about these 2 different thought processes regardless of what the IRM actually states.Edit to add

The student should be taught ;
If I see the instructor or coach wave off, I should immediately turn, track and then deploy
If I see the coach turn and track, I should immediately deploy
If I see the coach deploy, I should immediately deploy.
No exceptions.


(This post was edited by ufk22 on Jul 21, 2011, 12:59 PM)


tdog  (D 28800)

Jul 21, 2011, 11:56 AM
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Re: [ufk22] Proper signals on student jumps after solo status? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
On the other hand, if you have a low-time student in the air and the coach or another jumper point down (to indicate a bad spot) or points at their altimeter (I know this isn't a valid hand signal, but I've seen it done many times) you don't necessarily want the student to immediately pull.

You don't need to point at your alti. Tap it with all four fingers or the palm of your hand. I also like putting my alti in my face until the student gets the hint. Both work.

You don't need to point down with one finger to indicate a bad spot. You can put two fingers to your eyeballs then wave both of those fingers to the place you want them to look. They understand, "look over there".

Both of these sign language clues seem to work with many students with zero training because they just make sense.

If you want someone to track or go some direction, point with all four fingers stuck out and thumb at the palm of your hand. Wave in the direction you want them to go starting with elbow bent, fingers to the sky eventually arm extended the direction you want them to go. This one makes so much sense most dogs understand it when you want to play fetch, so humans should too.

Don Yarling taught me this when I was getting my coach rating. We were in the middle of an eval, and he said something. I gestured "good point", on the ground, and my hand resembled a "pull" signal. He yelled, "arch, reach, throw!" loud enough everyone within a mile could hear. Then said to me, "why would you tell me to pull on the ground?" It was his dramatic show that taught me a lesson such that I remember this to this day.


Skydog73  (C License)

Jul 21, 2011, 1:58 PM
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Re: [tdog] Proper signals on student jumps after solo status? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
On the other hand, if you have a low-time student in the air and the coach or another jumper point down (to indicate a bad spot) or points at their altimeter (I know this isn't a valid hand signal, but I've seen it done many times) you don't necessarily want the student to immediately pull.

You don't need to point at your alti. Tap it with all four fingers or the palm of your hand. I also like putting my alti in my face until the student gets the hint. Both work.

You don't need to point down with one finger to indicate a bad spot. You can put two fingers to your eyeballs then wave both of those fingers to the place you want them to look. They understand, "look over there".

Both of these sign language clues seem to work with many students with zero training because they just make sense.

If you want someone to track or go some direction, point with all four fingers stuck out and thumb at the palm of your hand. Wave in the direction you want them to go starting with elbow bent, fingers to the sky eventually arm extended the direction you want them to go. This one makes so much sense most dogs understand it when you want to play fetch, so humans should too.

Don Yarling taught me this when I was getting my coach rating. We were in the middle of an eval, and he said something. I gestured "good point", on the ground, and my hand resembled a "pull" signal. He yelled, "arch, reach, throw!" loud enough everyone within a mile could hear. Then said to me, "why would you tell me to pull on the ground?" It was his dramatic show that taught me a lesson such that I remember this to this day.

Our coach/AFF E does the same drill, anytime anyone points he makes us all yell the same thing.

And during an AFF rating jump a friend was on, he tapped his finger on the AFF E's alti, on the ground the examiner said "hey why did you give me the pull sign at 9000', he said next time tap all 4 fingers on the alti, if your going to pratice a sign, pratice it correctly was his point.

Seems most of us agree on this topic, and I thank you for your input.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Jul 21, 2011, 2:19 PM
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Re: [Skydog73] Proper signals on student jumps after solo status? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I gestured "good point", on the ground, and my hand resembled a "pull" signal. He yelled, "arch, reach, throw!" loud enough everyone within a mile could hear. .

LaughLaughLaugh
I sometimes tell student that if they want t o mess with their instructors, watch to see how they point out ground references on the plane. If they use their index finger to point, yell out real, real loud, "WHY DID YOU TELL ME TO PULL"?
LaughLaughLaugh


ufk22  (D 16168)

Jul 22, 2011, 6:12 AM
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Re: [tdog] Proper signals on student jumps after solo status? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not saying it should happen (pointing with one finger), just saying that it can and does. Just like the proper signal for altitude check is "circle of awareness", not tapping on their altimeter or yours (no matter how many fingers you use). I do believe that the wave-off and track is the absolute "pull" indicator for any coach to give. Also, after cat H, the "student" can jump not only with a coach or instructor, but also with any D licenced skydiver, who may have no training in hand signals. If the coach in question (the one talking about the pull sign going away) was briefing someone post Cat H, I would fully support it. Not knowing all the details, I wasn't going to judge. I also don't recommend making any signals to students that they haven't been briefed on. Students need to know what to expect rather than to try to figure out things in freefall while nearing deployment altitude.

As I said, the most important thing is that everyone at the DZ be on the same page.


(This post was edited by ufk22 on Jul 22, 2011, 6:22 AM)


tdog  (D 28800)

Jul 22, 2011, 6:36 AM
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Re: [ufk22] Proper signals on student jumps after solo status? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
As I said, the most important thing is that everyone at the DZ be on the same page.

That I agree with...

Thus, at at least the DZ I frequent, your statement is wrong:

Quote:
Just like the proper signal for altitude check is "circle of awareness", not tapping on their altimeter or yours

Every DZ has slight variations and that is ok... At least for people I teach, the circle of awareness hand signal means do a full circle of awareness with 4 steps (horizon, alti, instructor, instructor). Tapping an altimeter (or even the opposite wrist) means look at your alti. The students are trained this in a video, in the FJC, and by the instructors.

The full circle of awareness is phased out in the first few jumps with a student, and by the time they are on a coach jump, "horizon, alti, instructor, instructor" is not a useful thing for most diveflows.

Further, we tell students "do only two circles of awareness on a level 1, after that just keep checking your alti and the horizon/heading in short circles every few seconds." And we tell them, "we will only give you hand signals for practice touches or COA if you forget to do them on your own."

After a student does two great COAs, to conflict with what we trained them and to ask them to do a whole new 3rd COA just because we feel it has been a tad long since they checked their alti, does not make sense to me. The student might think, "I just did a full COA, why again?"

I get postive feedback from the students in the debrief understanding the COA vs tap on wrist, "you tapped my wrist, I checked my alti, and I realized I was slacking. I saw it was close to pull time so I checked it again and pulled."

Everyone has their own technique. And that is alright. So the moral to the story is - if you are a coach, instructor, etc - ask your student what signals they know before the jump and use those, or train new ones. Hopefully matching ones others at the DZ use. It is like my friends dog who knew to pee every time his owner said "john lennon", it does not matter as long as both creatures are on the same page. That being said, the pull signal (both pointing one finger, and waving and pulling) is the pull signal and that is pretty darn universal and should be given a lot of respect.


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Jul 22, 2011, 7:41 AM
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Re: [ufk22] Proper signals on student jumps after solo status? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
As I said, the most important thing is that everyone at the DZ be on the same page.

I like that. But the most important thing for me is that the student and I are on the same page on whatever jump we're on - it certainly does help to have a default set of expectations at the DZ or in general - but we still talk about hand signals in the prebrief/training just to be clear for any coaching or AFF jump (you never know what the last guy taught him unless you review)

it doesn't take long - "you remember your hand signals?.....ok, what does this mean, and this, and this....great, here's a couple new ones for this jump" etc etc


(This post was edited by rehmwa on Jul 22, 2011, 7:42 AM)


ufk22  (D 16168)

Jul 22, 2011, 8:11 AM
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Re: [rehmwa] Proper signals on student jumps after solo status? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
As I said, the most important thing is that everyone at the DZ be on the same page.

I like that. But the most important thing for me is that the student and I are on the same page on whatever jump we're on - it certainly does help to have a default set of expectations at the DZ or in general - but we still talk about hand signals in the prebrief/training just to be clear for any coaching or AFF jump (you never know what the last guy taught him unless you review)

it doesn't take long - "you remember your hand signals?.....ok, what does this mean, and this, and this....great, here's a couple new ones for this jump" etc etc
Without a doubt.
My only point is that it's a lot less confusing for the student, and lowers the chance of brainlock, if eveyone at the DZ is teaching the same thing rather than the student to have to learn different signals every jump.


tdog  (D 28800)

Jul 22, 2011, 5:44 PM
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Quote:
it doesn't take long - "you remember your hand signals?.....ok, what does this mean, and this, and this....great, here's a couple new ones for this jump" etc etc

As another side tidbit -

I found that "practice touches" was often misunderstood/forgotten. So now I have the student teach me the signals in all review sessions. I find retention has gone up a great deal when they form the signals with their hands during review... You see their brain churn as they try to remember then it clicks.


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Jul 25, 2011, 8:10 AM
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Re: [tdog] Proper signals on student jumps after solo status? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
now I have the student teach me the signals in all review sessions. I find retention has gone up a great deal .....

EXCELLENT idea - I'll start incorporating that immediately

thanks


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Jul 25, 2011, 8:11 AM
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Re: [tdog] Proper signals on student jumps after solo status? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
it doesn't take long - "you remember your hand signals?.....ok, what does this mean, and this, and this....great, here's a couple new ones for this jump" etc etc

As another side tidbit -

I found that "practice touches" was often misunderstood/forgotten. So now I have the student teach me the signals in all review sessions. I find retention has gone up a great deal when they form the signals with their hands during review... You see their brain churn as they try to remember then it clicks.

Great Idea!

Matt


Skydog73  (C License)

Jul 26, 2011, 8:54 AM
Post #18 of 19 (1188 views)
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Re: [Skydog73] Proper signals on student jumps after solo status? [In reply to] Can't Post

Well seems we are still going round on this at our place, I just got my SIM and IRM back, and I gave it a glance last night, I didn't see where it says after solo status and coaching begins the pull sign is an absolute no-no, I just found what I already knew, and that is we should wave them off, and/or we should be pulling by 3500' to show them that they should be doing the same, and we should not be physically touching them, idk,,,, but I will try and look more tonight, one guy still insists it is in the coach responsibilities list, which he is going to try and find too......, like I said regardless if I ever see someone who might be ready to pass out, throw up and isn't doing what they are suppose to, or I see a bridal flapping behind them, I will do what I feel is best.

I flat out tell students at this stage I should not be telling you to pull, i review the signals, and then add in that if I roll my arm extended in a direction that means turn and track and deploy, and if you ever see me pull, you should be pulling as well.

Like I said I will abide by the rules either way, just want everyone doing the same thing here on a day to day basis and not causing confusion, what we do in freak situations is a judgement call usually anyway, but this has given me a few new scenarios to think about, so either way it has been helpful!!!!


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Jul 26, 2011, 10:43 PM
Post #19 of 19 (1141 views)
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Re: [tdog] Proper signals on student jumps after solo status? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
So now I have the student teach me the signals in all review sessions. I find retention has gone up a great deal when they form the signals with their hands during review...
Damn, I love it when I pick up a new teaching tool. Thanks, Tdog. Cool



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