Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Wing Suit Flying:
JFX really suitable for wingsuit ?

 

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Venom1986

Jul 8, 2011, 11:37 PM
Post #1 of 49 (4592 views)
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JFX really suitable for wingsuit ? Can't Post

Hi,
On the description of the canopy, you can read you can jump wingsuit with it. Is this possible ?
Has the canopy more the ability of the 7-cell canopy than the high elliptical, crossbraced 21-cell what he is at the openings ?
Jumps anyone the JFX with his wingsuit ? How are the openings ? Has maybe a line twist and his effect ? Evil spin with dive or furthermore suitable for wingsuit ?
http://www.nzaerosports.com/canopies/daedalus-JFX


BenediktDE

Jul 9, 2011, 2:05 AM
Post #2 of 49 (4542 views)
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Re: [Venom1986] JFX really suitable for wingsuit ? [In reply to] Can't Post

The description is a bit strange in my eyes. They state that this would be the canopy for work and fun jumps including WS flying but at the end of the description they say "Recommended wing loading 1.8 to 2.8".
A wingloading around 2.0 in a wingsuit is nothing I would recommend. Some people might fly such a wing in a WS but I don't know anyone who jumps an elliptical canopy or one loaded at >2.0 and had over 300 WS jumps with it without cutting away. (not stating that there is no one)
I don't know the JFX but have my doubts that it would be a good idea to fly an elliptical wing loaded around 2 in a WS.


BenediktDE

Jul 9, 2011, 2:09 AM
Post #3 of 49 (4540 views)
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Re: [Venom1986] JFX really suitable for wingsuit ? [In reply to] Can't Post

BTW: If the weight in your profile is correct: For you the recommended range of 1.8 to 2.8 would be 104sqft to 64sqft... Shocked


Venom1986

Jul 9, 2011, 2:29 AM
Post #4 of 49 (4534 views)
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Re: [BenediktDE] JFX really suitable for wingsuit ? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm lucky with my Storm, great openings and funny, sporti to fly If I want Smile I ask because I read that about the canopy and don't know any elliptical canopies recommend or suitable for wingsuit.


verticalflyer  (D 11313)

Jul 9, 2011, 4:14 AM
Post #5 of 49 (4511 views)
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Re: [Venom1986] JFX really suitable for wingsuit ? [In reply to] Can't Post

You can jump any canopy you like with a wingsuit you just need to assess the level of risk you wish to personally take. Their is ample common sense advice that will state if you wish to decrease the risk of potential malfunctions or deployment issues your better off with a non elliptical non highly loaded canopy. We seem to ask the same questions over and over again, the advice is out their have a look and decide upon it.

Anyone can tell you I jump thsi or that and its fine, but you have no idea of how they fly, the packing, deployment or wingloading or personal risk levels. So read the well established advice and make a decision.


Ronaldo  (D 34728)

Jul 10, 2011, 8:03 AM
Post #6 of 49 (4410 views)
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Re: [Venom1986] JFX really suitable for wingsuit ? [In reply to] Can't Post

My personal advice: If you switch disciplines occasionally get a cheap used 7 cell (like a Triathlon) and buy a set of risers/ bag/ PC. When you want to wingsuit just connect the low performance canopy and have peace of mind.
I have a Crosssfire2 129 I use for freeflying and a Tri 160 for wingsuiting. Currently, since Im only freeflying at he tunnel the Tri is quickly becoming my main canopySmile


monkycndo  (D License)

Jul 10, 2011, 8:33 AM
Post #7 of 49 (4403 views)
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Re: [Ronaldo] JFX really suitable for wingsuit ? [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree with this as well. A Sabre 1 also makes a great WS canopy and you can pick them up really cheap. The last two I got were for $300 each. Picked up a D-bag, PC and risers for $140. Now I can switch mains at will.

Did I mention I'm a gear whore?


maretus  (D License)

Jul 10, 2011, 12:52 PM
Post #8 of 49 (4352 views)
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Re: [BenediktDE] JFX really suitable for wingsuit ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
A wingloading around 2.0 in a wingsuit is nothing I would recommend. Some people might fly such a wing in a WS but I don't know anyone who jumps an elliptical canopy or one loaded at >2.0 and had over 300 WS jumps with it without cutting away. (not stating that there is no one)
I don't know the JFX but have my doubts that it would be a good idea to fly an elliptical wing loaded around 2 in a WS.

For what it is worth... When I still skydived I used to jump Icarus Extreme FX 88 sqft loaded at 2.1 - 2.2 for all of my jumps, including WS. I recon I made 100 - 150 ws jumps with it and had no problems. I also know a friend who regularly jumps 70 sqft FX loaded around 2, has maybe 300 ws jumps with it and is super happy (cant recall if he has chopped it yet or not). So it can be done for sure but obviously if you can afford a seprarate WS rig x-braced highly loaded canopies are not your primary choice. If you need to choose 1 canopy for all of your jumps, then its a trade off between the length of the swoops or the cost of occasional reserve repack after a chop. :)


(This post was edited by maretus on Jul 10, 2011, 12:53 PM)


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Jul 11, 2011, 12:06 AM
Post #9 of 49 (4288 views)
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Re: [Venom1986] JFX really suitable for wingsuit ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Are you ready to jump WS with a canopy WL 1.8-2.8?

I jump a Cobalt Competition WL 2.3+ without wing suit.
I got 90 seconds between my opening and landing from a hop and pop......
Are you ready for that?


jojo0815  (D 28155)

Jul 11, 2011, 10:17 AM
Post #10 of 49 (4225 views)
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Re: [Venom1986] JFX really suitable for wingsuit ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Luigi Cani jumped the JFX when it was brand new at the 71 way in Elsinore. J. Tagle also jumped one of his bigger Velos but did have a cutaway with it right in front of me :).


Helmut  (D License)

Jul 11, 2011, 10:35 AM
Post #11 of 49 (4216 views)
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Re: [jojo0815] JFX really suitable for wingsuit ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Tony U jumps one and loves it. Says it opens way better than his Saber 2 and better on heading. All he jumps is wingsuits. I am going to demo one and see how it goes. When I talked with Tony he loved the canopy.


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Jul 11, 2011, 1:55 PM
Post #12 of 49 (4171 views)
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Re: [Helmut] JFX really suitable for wingsuit ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Tony U jumps one and loves it. Says it opens way better than his Saber 2 and better on heading. All he jumps is wingsuits. I am going to demo one and see how it goes. When I talked with Tony he loved the canopy.

Jari K is jumping a Katana 97 with wing suit. Does it mean anything for most of us? I don't think so.

Keep in mind that Tony U has escape sleeve on his suits, so he can reach risers without unzipping....


mccordia  (D 94775)

Jul 11, 2011, 2:23 PM
Post #13 of 49 (4163 views)
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Re: [phoenixlpr] JFX really suitable for wingsuit ? [In reply to] Can't Post

As Gabor also sais, not everyone has the same 2000 to 10.000 jumps as other 'examples' of people that use those canopies on wingsuit jumps.

Aside from a choice of canopies being clever, I also see certain people fly 2 inches from the ground in a wingsuit. Doesnt mean everyone should do so or would be capable of doing so.

Every canopy CAN be used with a wingsuit. But not every canopy is the most ideal choice one can make.

Robert Peknic jumped an Atair Radical 95 as a wingsuit canopy. Currently he upsized and changed to a PD Storm 135. Some canopies can be fun to fly, but treat you like their bitch on opening.
For some people the (short) flying fun is worth the hassle. For some that type of fun wears of after a while, and solid, on-heading, predictable and comfortable openings are the new 'fun'.

Jumping a suit where 'you can reach your risers' I think has little to do with what canopy you choose as a main. EVERY suit allows you to do a normal cutaway and reserve pull without needing to unzip or reach.
Its only the reserve where the ability to reach up while in a spin, without lifting knees (which doesnt work on 90% of the 'sleeve' system suits, also visable in the constant redesigns, topics on clothing selection etc, and some manufacturers choosing to keep a functional cutaway aside of such featuresLaugh).

Jump whatever size and make main you want.
Selecting your reserve of a size and make you trust during any type of opening is a more important aspect.
As well as a rigger who gives you a discount on repack if you have to chop your main againTongue

With 2 years in the sport, and most likely not thousands of jumps, I would advise to go for a moderate and known canopy as your choice for wingsuit flying...


Freeflaw  (C License)

Jul 11, 2011, 9:45 PM
Post #14 of 49 (4131 views)
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Re: [mccordia] JFX really suitable for wingsuit ? [In reply to] Can't Post

http://vimeo.com/11021700


mccordia  (D 94775)

Jul 12, 2011, 12:07 AM
Post #15 of 49 (4116 views)
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Re: [Freeflaw] JFX really suitable for wingsuit ? [In reply to] Can't Post

You didnt get the hint at sarcasm?
Quote:
Jump whatever size and make main you want.

Meaning you'll most likely see more of your reserve than most peopleTongue


Freeflaw  (C License)

Jul 12, 2011, 6:41 PM
Post #16 of 49 (4039 views)
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Re: [mccordia] JFX really suitable for wingsuit ? [In reply to] Can't Post

wasn't directed at you... hadn't even read your post. Just an illustration of what can go wrong combining small canopies and wing suits. This is the second video I have seen where this happens... then again ...do whatever you want as long as you don't physicaly hurt or kill anyone else


Helmut  (D License)

Jul 14, 2011, 1:03 PM
Post #17 of 49 (3939 views)
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Re: [Freeflaw] JFX really suitable for wingsuit ? [In reply to] Can't Post

I am no expert when it comes to canopies. However, isnt it about time that a working mans cross brace hit the market. My velocity feels much more stable and rigid than my storm. I dont know about line trim aspect ratio and what have you but maybe what they have done with the JFX is given you a nice stable platform that has docile opening much like 9 and 7 cell non cross braced canopies. Part of the issue with the velocity being so damn twitch line length as well. Maybe someone from NZ can speak to this.


kallend  (D 23151)

Jul 14, 2011, 3:39 PM
Post #18 of 49 (3920 views)
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Re: [mccordia] JFX really suitable for wingsuit ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
You didnt get the hint at sarcasm?
Quote:
Jump whatever size and make main you want.

Meaning you'll most likely see more of your reserve than most peopleTongue

I retired my Stiletto shortly after I started WS. Very bad combination.


Waldschrat

Jul 15, 2011, 4:16 AM
Post #19 of 49 (3878 views)
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Re: [Helmut] JFX really suitable for wingsuit ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Is your velo smaller then your storm? Even i think that crossbraced mains are more rigid then normal 7-cell?


Freeflaw  (C License)

Jul 15, 2011, 5:34 PM
Post #20 of 49 (3837 views)
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Re: [Waldschrat] JFX really suitable for wingsuit ? [In reply to] Can't Post

isn't that the point of crossbracing?


verticalflyer  (D 11313)

Jul 17, 2011, 4:16 AM
Post #21 of 49 (3798 views)
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Re: [Freeflaw] JFX really suitable for wingsuit ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes Cross bracing makes a more rigid canopy, it also means less deformation in flight so you change the wing shape rather than depress the wing shape through partial deflation change in pressurization. However with the benefits this brings in terms of performance, glide path efficiency and construction it also means that on deployment any assymentry can create a far greater rate of change in canopy direction, surge and recation depending on the situation, line twists, assymetrical loading etc etc. So as I said in my earlier posts jump what you like but use common sense, the information is out there and the information from tens of thousands of jumps is pretty clear. As for a working mans crossbrace, hmm and lets have a working mans F1 car wouldnt that be great. No not all things are for all people and what is a working mans crossbrace anyway?


Helmut  (D License)

Jul 26, 2011, 12:48 PM
Post #22 of 49 (3669 views)
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Re: [verticalflyer] JFX really suitable for wingsuit ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Maybe the JFX is the working mans cross brace. A cross braced canopy that is not super twitchy wants to open on heading or aka opens much like a normal 9 or 7 cell. Jumping a velo I pull and hope for the best. I sure dont expect it. I just love flying the canopy so makes it worth it. If someone built something with just a slight loss in performance but better opening characteristics then yes thats a working mans cross brace. We were crazy to go from rounds to squares.


verticalflyer  (D 11313)

Jul 26, 2011, 1:00 PM
Post #23 of 49 (3662 views)
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Re: [Helmut] JFX really suitable for wingsuit ? [In reply to] Can't Post

One mans ferrari is another man BMW, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Working man or not, i wouldnt be jumping a Velo if the approach was deploy and hope. have a chat with PD about what your doing, they dont design canopies to deploy like nightmares, however twitchy they might be. Also if mentally your thinking this come pull time its likely you'll reflect this in your body position. Hope it improves and keep enjoying the flight.


stayhigh  (F 111)

Jul 26, 2011, 7:07 PM
Post #24 of 49 (3612 views)
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Re: [Venom1986] JFX really suitable for wingsuit ? [In reply to] Can't Post

You can jump anything with wing suit, if you have consistant good openings with your current canopy than you'll probably have good results with jfx as well.
Tagle jumped velo 69 or 7 something for the record with full RDS
Cani jumped his jfx for the REAL record.

Having jumped a jfx, my experience is that it openes really nice and quick but like any x-braced canopy, when shit goes wrong it will go wrong very quickly.


Helmut  (D License)

Jul 27, 2011, 6:53 AM
Post #25 of 49 (3560 views)
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Re: [verticalflyer] JFX really suitable for wingsuit ? [In reply to] Can't Post

I guess I over simplified. Until I got my velo I have never even come close to chopping. I will say it opens better than my Katana did. So would not say its a nightmare but in 150 jumps its been chopped twice. Relax look at the horizon pull symmetrically I dont touch risers while its opening stay centered in harness. My thought on working mans cross brace is making it a bit less aggressive and twitchy. Its gotta be possible. Anyway good thread. I do hope to demo a JFX see the differences.


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