Then that means the Prof. Card is full of "forged" signatures.
The steps to prevent that are there Pops. WE I's have the ability to fix it with out USPA needing to do more, WE I's just mentor the Candidate, a little "Pay It Forward".
I harp on this all the time at the two DZ's I jump at, and it seems to be the norm at those two DZ's, to do that.
WE I's can change the Instructor Culture through EXAMPLES.
This is what I HATE about the "coach" rating. No talent, 100 jumps, got the rating... Screw the newbies!!!!! Free jumps!!!!
I notice that YOU don't have a Coach rating yet? Surely you are interested in helping out the Pre-A youngsters, eh?
I don't have it & have no desire to get it.
If a kid with 18 jumps asks me if I'll jump with him, then you bet I'll jump out there, let him or her, work on what ever they want to. FREE OF CHARGE!
I've just seen to many "coaches" that are in it for the $$$$$$$$.
If a kid with 18 jumps asks me if I'll jump with him, then you bet I'll jump out there, let him or her, work on what ever they want to. FREE OF CHARGE!
I've just seen to many "coaches" that are in it for the $$$$$$$$.
The coach rating is as much about how to teach as it is how to fly with low time jumpers, if not more. Pretending that it's not because you've seen some people doing what you think is a bad job or approaching it in a way that you don't like shows just as much disrespect to the rating and to those who do have a coach ratings and do care about teaching people. I applaud you for wanting to help newer jumpers but go get a coach rating if you want to jump with pre-A license holders, you *will* learn something.
If a kid with 18 jumps asks me if I'll jump with him, then you bet I'll jump out there, let him or her, work on what ever they want to. FREE OF CHARGE!
I've just seen to many "coaches" that are in it for the $$$$$$$$.
The coach rating is as much about how to teach as it is how to fly with low time jumpers, if not more. Pretending that it's not because you've seen some people doing what you think is a bad job or approaching it in a way that you don't like shows just as much disrespect to the rating and to those who do have a coach ratings and do care about teaching people. I applaud you for wanting to help newer jumpers but go get a coach rating if you want to jump with pre-A license holders, you *will* learn something.
Fair enough, you have given me a new train of thought. Thanks.
How or why does that matter? Just because something was done before doesnt mean that its okay now. USPA changed the system for a reason. We are certainly better off requiring that someone be trained to jump with students. At my DZ coached dont get paid. I didnt get it at first but now it makes sense to me. By removing the money from the equation the only thing left is skydiving and the teaching. To become an instructor, which the coach rating is the first step in the process, you have to start somewhere. I dont see any better alternatives out there.
What the hell did we do before USPA created the Coach rating?
There are plenty of people out in the skydiving community who don't need a coach rating to be able to help new jumpers. There are also plenty of people out there who would be doing these new jumpers a disservice. It amuses me that on one hand we complain about new jumpers not getting the training they need and on the other we disparage the USPA's attempt to add some structure and professionalism to the process.
If your DZO signs you off to jump with students, it's fine. If you're a relatively new jumper <1000 jumps & 5 years in the sport then I personally think that getting a coach rating can only help you to help new jumpers.
If a kid with 18 jumps asks me if I'll jump with him, then you bet I'll jump out there, let him or her, work on what ever they want to. FREE OF CHARGE!
Good on you! There's only 1 minor problem. As per USPA, YOU, with only a B license are not allowed to jump with students. So, in essence, you are setting a bad example for them in ultimately saying, "Rules are made to be broken."
On top of that... That 18-jumper gets hurt, YOU are going to be on the front line explaining and trying to justify all that.
In reply to:
I've just seen to many "coaches" that are in it for the $$$$$$$$.
You and me both, brother...and it's sad.
Get your rating, Don. I think you would be a good coach. What's the hold-up?
The coach rating is as much about how to teach as it is how to fly with low time jumpers, if not more.
Spot on.
In reply to:
Pretending that it's not because you've seen some people doing what you think is a bad job or approaching it in a way that you don't like shows just as much disrespect to the rating
Again, spot on. Yep. I know there are those out there who disparage the Coach rating simply because of some of the stuff they see out there. This is unfortunate in that opinions are formed based on a small sample of observations.
Then there are those out there who will develop their own opinions based on nothing more than what their personal gurus expound. This, too, is unfortunate because potentially good Coaches are passing up the rating thinking that their gurus are correct.
Anybody got a whine about the Coach rating and you don't have one? Kinda blows your credibility, IMO. I'd suggest get off your dead ass, get the rating, and do your part in improving the product. You've got the opportunity...take it.
If a kid with 18 jumps asks me if I'll jump with him, then you bet I'll jump out there, let him or her, work on what ever they want to. FREE OF CHARGE!
I've just seen to many "coaches" that are in it for the $$$$$$$$.
The coach rating is as much about how to teach as it is how to fly with low time jumpers, if not more. Pretending that it's not because you've seen some people doing what you think is a bad job or approaching it in a way that you don't like shows just as much disrespect to the rating and to those who do have a coach ratings and do care about teaching people. I applaud you for wanting to help newer jumpers but go get a coach rating if you want to jump with pre-A license holders, you *will* learn something.
Fair enough, you have given me a new train of thought. Thanks.
Hey if you wanna help but don't want a rating, then be one of the guys who grab the fresh A license people once in awhile and starts a beginner RW group, it gives a fresh fish a place to start their career from, we lose alot of up jumpers because they feel left out, or people whose skills never progress much because they have no experienced people to pratice with. I know a few guys who do this and probably make more in sandwhiches and beer then a coach makes anyway. If your one of these guys I applaud you!!!!! I have done a few but we have really been busy the last 2 years and my time is limited, but I still have 1 or 2 I try and get with, and seeing them smile makes it all worth it. The USPA states we are self policing, we should also try and be self encouraging after the A stamp is applied.
a "d" can jump with a off student status jumper with the dzo or the sta's approval right?
Anyone can jump with anybody off student status.
I assume you really mean students released for self-supervision. In that case, yes, you are correct except that no approval is actually required according to USPA's SIM. Note that an S&TA can waiver that.
SIM: 6. Students training for group freefall (S) a. Student freefall training for group freefall jumps must be conducted by either A USPA Coach under the supervision of a USPA Instructor or; b. USPA D license holders provided there is a minimum ratio of one D license holder to one student with a maximum of a 4-way.
(This post was edited by popsjumper on Jul 27, 2011, 5:31 PM)
I thought that was the case but I don't see it in the SIM.
I had the same trouble, I always check with the sta and talk to the instructors see what the student needs to work on.
Asking the -I's are always going to be your best COA.
If I have no direct answer from them, I will generally have them do a solo exit (unlinked two way) so I can observe their body position. Have them do a practice pull, then a couple of turns with alti checks inbetween. I'll move to forward movement, and if they're rocking it out, I'll throw in some vertical movement (not much distance!!)... If they're recently cleared for solo, I will have them pull in place for a jump or two, I've seen students do a full 360 (and keep going) from reach to throw and didn't know why they got the line twists.
You can look up the CAT G & H in the SIM (ya know, the book that said you can jump with students cleared for solo as a D- holder and in ratios of no more than 1:1 up to a 4 way).
Who ever said they couldn't find in the SIM that they were allowed to jump with students as D- holders really should look again. As Andy pointed out, it's black and white, clear as day.
(This post was edited by theonlyski on Jul 29, 2011, 7:48 AM)
If a kid with 18 jumps asks me if I'll jump with him, then you bet I'll jump out there
So you're jumping with pre-license holders without any kind of rating?
Oh, my God!!! Say it isn't so!
What the hell did we do before USPA created the Coach rating?
I was there... I was taught.... stick out your arm to make a turn... adjust your fall rate by extending or pulling in your arms and legs... losing altitude faster makes for a better track... training after the first jump course lasted for less than 5 minutes or was done on the ride to altitude... postdives should consist of either "be more aggressive" or "be less aggressive"...
... I earned mine... probably more so then some T/I's that I have heard about.
Oh, hell. Now you got me started on that whole rating requirement thing.
It severely grinds my shorts that you can get get a Coach rating one day and an AFF or TI rating the next. Stupid USPA. It's unbelievable how often that happens.
And its about to happen at your DZ! :) Wonder how said person will Coach/AFF Instruct the landings. Whats the saying, "those who can't do, teach".......
. But done regardless. 
