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Wind limits and gusts with tandems....

 


WatchYourStep  (D License)

Jun 21, 2011, 9:41 AM
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Wind limits and gusts with tandems.... Can't Post

Just wanting some opinions from other tandem instructors of a few situations....if you would jump in the 10-21 and not the 16-27, why? The overall wind speed or the gust? Assume the direction of the wind has no impeding buildings or trees to cause extra turbulence...

Winds: 10-21
WL: 1.1:1
compared with
Winds: 16-27
WL: 1.1:1

Thanks for your opinions....


Dokeman  (D License)

Jun 21, 2011, 9:56 AM
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Re: [WatchYourStep] Wind limits and gusts with tandems.... [In reply to] Can't Post

ill do 10-21 MPH with ease, 16-27 no thanks. I dont like jumping in anything over 21 MPH. i dont like going backwards. I assume your talking MPH and not KNOTS?


WatchYourStep  (D License)

Jun 21, 2011, 9:58 AM
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Re: [Dokeman] Wind limits and gusts with tandems.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes MPH....

so over 21 mph you are going backwards loaded 1.1:1?


Dokeman  (D License)

Jun 21, 2011, 10:03 AM
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Re: [WatchYourStep] Wind limits and gusts with tandems.... [In reply to] Can't Post

I didnt really take into account the wing loading so much. Cause i dont do the math for every jump, and I cant pick and choose who can go when its windy. If everyone cant jump, nobody can jump. Also other determining factors like canopy choice. The sigmas seem to be more stable in turbulence/high winds than icarus's. And when you are backing up/comming straight down you really loose alot of options for alternate landing areas. I generally just dont like it. Its not as fun for me or them. Just come back a better day.


stayhigh  (F 111)

Jun 21, 2011, 10:10 AM
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Re: [WatchYourStep] Wind limits and gusts with tandems.... [In reply to] Can't Post

With tndem catchers or no catchers???


WatchYourStep  (D License)

Jun 21, 2011, 11:07 AM
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Re: [Dokeman] Wind limits and gusts with tandems.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Doke-

So at your dz, if 1 tandem instructor says it's too windy for them, then no TI's can jump? Is that wind limit set by the DZO?


WatchYourStep  (D License)

Jun 21, 2011, 11:09 AM
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Re: [stayhigh] Wind limits and gusts with tandems.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Stay-

Does having catchers impact it? Is that due to gusts or overall wind limits?

Where I'm at we are fortunate enough to have catchers about 99.9% of the time but am comfy without them. I just instruct the student what to do on landing in order to help me collapse the canopy and it's all good.

Thanks again for the feedback everyone....


Rover  (D 241)

Jun 21, 2011, 12:09 PM
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Re: [WatchYourStep] Wind limits and gusts with tandems.... [In reply to] Can't Post

20 knots is my cut off, and if one TI or the pilot gets scared, we all stop.


WatchYourStep  (D License)

Jun 21, 2011, 12:12 PM
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Re: [Rover] Wind limits and gusts with tandems.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Rover-

Thanks, do gusts play into it as well?

Let's say for instance they are 10-20 knots?


Dokeman  (D License)

Jun 21, 2011, 12:15 PM
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Re: [WatchYourStep] Wind limits and gusts with tandems.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Well I'm 215lbs with no gear,and we jump icarus's 330's. So its rare that I get a 1.1 loading unless I'm taking someone real small. We run a 206 and only have 1 other TM who is much smaller than me. We are also a tandem only operations so there are no funjumpers. Its hard to put strick wind limits on paper for experienced jumpers because 20mph wind one day can be quite different than a 20mph wind another day. Difference in gusts, directions, turbulence, and other factors. But i do take inconsideration the other instructor and the passenger enjoyment factor as well.. Gusty winds and a cessna make for quite a bumpy ride to altitude plus a bumpy ride under canopy. example: we called a load one day because we had high winds with smaller passengers. no bid deal until she told me that last time she flew in a small place it made her sick. Well I don't want to get puked on. She lived about 15minutes from the DZ and came back the next day. Could we have jumped her then, sure. But I think it was better for everyone that she came back the next day and had way more fun. Me and the other instructor go out the the landing area together and decide if its good or not. So i guess I don't have a hard number for stopping, its if we both feel comfortable. I don't really even care what the number is, i can stand out there and tell you if its too windy or not.

What about upper wind limits? Whats your cutoff for 3000ft winds? 30knots? 40 knots? That also plays a role in my decision. Who cares what the winds in the landing are are if the uppers are so strong that you get blown right past it?


freefalle  (D 27777)

Jun 22, 2011, 2:11 AM
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Re: [WatchYourStep] Wind limits and gusts with tandems.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Im pretty consertive about the winds I'll jump in, Doke and I have worked together and pretty much have the same attitude. Although a certain DZO we used to work for feels it's "perfectly acceptable to be getting blown backwards under a tandem canopy."

I dont pay my bills by doing tandems so if the winds/weather is questionable Im done for the day. There is no amount of money worth getting hurt, or worse getting a customer hurt.

Chuck Bryan


skydived19006  (D 19006)

Jul 6, 2011, 6:37 AM
Post #12 of 12 (1293 views)
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Re: [Dokeman] Wind limits and gusts with tandems.... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Well I'm 215lbs with no gear,and we jump icarus's 330's. So its rare that I get a 1.1 loading unless I'm taking someone real small. We run a 206 and only have 1 other TM who is much smaller than me. We are also a tandem only operations so there are no funjumpers. Its hard to put strick wind limits on paper for experienced jumpers because 20mph wind one day can be quite different than a 20mph wind another day. Difference in gusts, directions, turbulence, and other factors. But i do take inconsideration the other instructor and the passenger enjoyment factor as well.. Gusty winds and a cessna make for quite a bumpy ride to altitude plus a bumpy ride under canopy. example: we called a load one day because we had high winds with smaller passengers. no bid deal until she told me that last time she flew in a small place it made her sick. Well I don't want to get puked on. She lived about 15minutes from the DZ and came back the next day. Could we have jumped her then, sure. But I think it was better for everyone that she came back the next day and had way more fun. Me and the other instructor go out the the landing area together and decide if its good or not. So i guess I don't have a hard number for stopping, its if we both feel comfortable. I don't really even care what the number is, i can stand out there and tell you if its too windy or not.

What about upper wind limits? Whats your cutoff for 3000ft winds? 30knots? 40 knots? That also plays a role in my decision. Who cares what the winds in the landing are are if the uppers are so strong that you get blown right past it?

This is similar to how we operate (not the tandem only part). All the TIs are over 200 lbs., we have 330 and 365 canopies so can keep the wing loading in excess of 1/1. Generally the wind will be increasing throughout the morning, when we start backing up, or the gusting is starts to make landing dicey we stop. In general if the wind is fairly constant and below 30 mph we're ok, anything over 30 we're done. If it's gusting 5 to 25 we're drinking beer. The "rule" is 25, but in the right conditions we'll push it a bit.

When I have a light student on a 365 (around 1:1) and the canopy is oscillating around with turbulence, etc. I have to wonder what it's like being a 150 lb TI with a 100 lb student on a canopy that size (.8:1).

Seems a bit ironic when we would prefer to take the 220 lb guy as opposed to the 120 lb girl.

Martin



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