Forums: Skydiving: Instructors:
Chasing your student into the ground!?!

 

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polarbear  (D 25673)

Jun 11, 2011, 10:15 PM
Post #26 of 162 (2852 views)
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Re: [crotalus01] Chasing your student into the ground!?! [In reply to] Can't Post

We didn't either, which is why he was encouraged to give things a real good thinking over before he jumped again. Fortunately the technology saved him and gave him the opportunity to decide how to deal with it.


JohnnyMarko

Jun 11, 2011, 10:17 PM
Post #27 of 162 (2844 views)
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Re: [jumpsalot-2] Chasing your student into the ground!?! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
After I contributed to your dating question.......all I get is "no"......Unsure

yes


jumpsalot-2  (D 33093)

Jun 11, 2011, 10:28 PM
Post #28 of 162 (2840 views)
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Re: [JohnnyMarko] Chasing your student into the ground!?! [In reply to] Can't Post

Well...it wasn't the best advice on the thread, so I guess I get what I get.......Crazy


cocik  (A 3450)

Jun 12, 2011, 12:32 AM
Post #29 of 162 (2813 views)
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Re: [polarbear] Chasing your student into the ground!?! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
We didn't either, which is why he was encouraged to give things a real good thinking over before he jumped again. Fortunately the technology saved him and gave him the opportunity to decide how to deal with it.

Just wondering - do you guys have a tunnel in your area? I believe spending 30-60 minutes in the tunnel drilling freefall stability can seriously help anyone who is coming back to skydiving after a long break. I know being unstable was not the only reason for such curveball, but it can make things easier.


polarbear  (D 25673)

Jun 12, 2011, 5:24 AM
Post #30 of 162 (2770 views)
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Re: [cocik] Chasing your student into the ground!?! [In reply to] Can't Post

Not within 450 miles


wayneflorida  (D 30566)

Jun 12, 2011, 6:47 AM
Post #31 of 162 (2739 views)
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Re: [Zymurdoo] Chasing your student into the ground!?! [In reply to] Can't Post

Having read all the posts I understand that this recurrency was done by a coach rated individual. even his first jump.

This recurrency should have been done by an AFF instructor.


theonlyski  (D License)

Jun 12, 2011, 6:50 AM
Post #32 of 162 (2739 views)
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Re: [jumpsalot-2] Chasing your student into the ground!?! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Put it on youtube so everyone can see it. Not everyone has, or wants, a facebook account.

I wouldn't either. Don't have the permission of the content owner, they could possibly take you to court over it, minimum it would get pulled from youtube.


dks13827  (C 9293)

Jun 12, 2011, 7:16 AM
Post #33 of 162 (2724 views)
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Chasing your student into the ground!?! [In reply to] Can't Post

looks to me like that 'student' does a perfect pull of an old school ripcord like he did years ago, but it doesnt work of course. then he kind of gives up completely... on surviving !! WTF ???? also looks like he fell from the plane, as opposed to doing any kind of aircraft exit. I cannot believe the videos that show people 'waiting' for the AAD to fire !


polarbear  (D 25673)

Jun 12, 2011, 11:28 AM
Post #34 of 162 (2648 views)
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Re: [wayneflorida] Chasing your student into the ground!?! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Having read all the posts I understand that this recurrency was done by a coach rated individual. even his first jump.

This recurrency should have been done by an AFF instructor.


This was his SECOND jump back, the first was done by an instructor.


MatthewNM  (D 26965)

Jun 12, 2011, 12:12 PM
Post #35 of 162 (2632 views)
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Re: [Zymurdoo] Chasing your student into the ground!?! [In reply to] Can't Post

As per usual everyone knows exactly what was going on and why it all went bad. Hey assholes the student was not chased to the ground. He was observed to be headed into the ground. But as I said "per usual' everyone here seems to have an asshole, uh I mean an opinion. It was posted so folks can learn from mistakes made, you ass wipes. Have you nothing better to do. It was not a claim to fame. Seriously 300 feet is nothing one should brag about. It was an answer to a question butthead. Oh but wait you all know everything. Jesus even critiquing the first jumper's exit. You all most just be the most awesome error free bunch of skydiving gods known to man. Fuck you all if you can't learn from other's mistake then just fuck you.....


jimmytavino  (A 3914)

Jun 12, 2011, 3:43 PM
Post #36 of 162 (2540 views)
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Re: [MatthewNM] Chasing your student into the ground!?! [In reply to] Can't Post

wow

that's a helluva First post, here.....


please do not call me, or others, ass wipes....Unimpressed very poor form...All people have done is comment on the video, which was posted here....Unimpressed


the comments seem pretty tame, and mostly accurate, considering what we were able to SEE,,, before the link closed down....Are YOU the coach/ video person???

did you Expect to be applauded for what that video showed???

YES.. you are correct.. there are LOTS of posts, videos and pictures which are here in order to "help others learn from mistakes made". and there were more than few made here... by Both parties....Any explanation why the camera person would WATCH a reserve fire,,, and then Pull his Own MAIN???? (virtually assuring a two -out???) , instead of just going to Silver???


Can't speak for others, though i bet that Like me,, they are NOT "the most awesome error free bunch of skydiving gods known to man".... Never have been , Never will be.... ( If you KNEW some of us, you'd never make such an innaccurate statement.)Crazy

We sure CAN , learn from others mistakes, and both the parties involved here , made a bunch of 'em...

as for "just fuck you"...... Unsure
wow.. awfully thin skin there, friend...
best to calm down a bit..
OH and YES.. case of beer !!!!! for your First post at DZ Dot Com.....

jt
A 3914
D 12122
POPS 3935
nscr 1817


-ftp-

Jun 13, 2011, 8:45 AM
Post #37 of 162 (2314 views)
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Re: [Zymurdoo] Chasing your student into the ground!?! [In reply to] Can't Post

ugh, i missed it. anyone download it in time?


davelepka  (D 21448)

Jun 13, 2011, 8:56 AM
Post #38 of 162 (2303 views)
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Re: [MatthewNM] Chasing your student into the ground!?! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
As per usual everyone knows exactly what was going on and why it all went bad.

I know that the student didn't recieve a proper gear check prior to exit, or those legstraps would have been properly tightened.

I know that the coach gave a useless thumbs up when the student didn't deserve it, was too far away, and was looking down.

I know that the coach was wearing a baggy suit, and unless he was a very big guy, he didn't dress for success, as evidenced by his inability to stay with the larger student.

I know that the coach failed in his responsibility to track away at break off and pull at a safe altitude.

Don't get mad at me for simply identifying mistakes that were made. I didn't create these problems, I just pointed them out.

If you want to get mad, how about start with the AFF I who passed this jumper to a coach after an admittedly unsatisfactory re-certification jump. The correct move would have been to keep the jumper with a qualified instructor, one that was taught to catch, stabilize and pull for a student, until such time that the jumper could display control of themselves in freefall.

Then get mad at the coach who got in way over his head, and made several mistakes it the process.

Getting mad at the guy who simply points these things out might make you feel better, but in the end it does nothing the solve the very problems that guy is pointing out.


mik  (D 11111)

Jun 13, 2011, 12:41 PM
Post #39 of 162 (2199 views)
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Re: [MatthewNM] Chasing your student into the ground!?! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
As per usual everyone knows exactly what was going on and why it all went bad. Hey assholes the student was not chased to the ground. He was observed to be headed into the ground. But as I said "per usual' everyone here seems to have an asshole, uh I mean an opinion. It was posted so folks can learn from mistakes made, you ass wipes. Have you nothing better to do. It was not a claim to fame. Seriously 300 feet is nothing one should brag about. It was an answer to a question butthead. Oh but wait you all know everything. Jesus even critiquing the first jumper's exit. You all most just be the most awesome error free bunch of skydiving gods known to man. Fuck you all if you can't learn from other's mistake then just fuck you.....

I can't help but wonder why, if the coach really wanted to post something people can learn from (as has been claimed), he posted it on a facebook account instead of sharing it with the wider community on an established skydiving site... like dz.com - perhaps with some commentary that would really help people to understand the situation that led to the skydive.

Does not make a lot of sense to me nor does the very defensive attitude by some people in this thread - unless it was to solicit the very positive comments from Facebook friends about how awesome a coach they are - that seems a bit at odds with some of the very experienced posters. I just don't understand it.


CarloC  (D 252794)

Jun 13, 2011, 4:33 PM
Post #40 of 162 (2093 views)
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Re: [crotalus01] Chasing your student into the ground!?! [In reply to] Can't Post

[I will never ever understand someone consciously waiting on an AAD to save them...]

It happens more often than people think it doesPirate


(This post was edited by CarloC on Jun 13, 2011, 4:35 PM)


dks13827  (C 9293)

Jun 13, 2011, 4:40 PM
Post #41 of 162 (2082 views)
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Re: [CarloC] Chasing your student into the ground!?! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
[I will never ever understand someone consciously waiting on an AAD to save them...]

It happens more often than people think it doesPirate
Totally agree ! I had a total on jump 15 and by golly I pulled that reserve right now !!! ( had a Sentinel on ). My T-10 then came out hanging below me and I chopped it immediately. My 2 cents.


jumpsalot-2  (D 33093)

Jun 13, 2011, 4:55 PM
Post #42 of 162 (2073 views)
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Re: [dks13827] Chasing your student into the ground!?! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
[I will never ever understand someone consciously waiting on an AAD to save them...]

It happens more often than people think it doesPirate
Totally agree ! I had a total on jump 15 and by golly I pulled that reserve right now !!! ( had a Sentinel on ). My T-10 then came out hanging below me and I chopped it immediately. My 2 cents.
In reply to:
Can two rounds out play nicely together, or do you need to cut away ?


Txflier  (B License)

Jun 13, 2011, 5:10 PM
Post #43 of 162 (2060 views)
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Re: [Zymurdoo] Chasing your student into the ground!?! [In reply to] Can't Post

The link just takes me to a page with a bunch of friends videos.


theonlyski  (D License)

Jun 13, 2011, 5:22 PM
Post #44 of 162 (2047 views)
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Re: [Txflier] Chasing your student into the ground!?! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The link just takes me to a page with a bunch of friends videos.

Read post #20


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Jun 13, 2011, 6:50 PM
Post #45 of 162 (1998 views)
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Re: [CarloC] Chasing your student into the ground!?! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
[I will never ever understand someone consciously waiting on an AAD to save them...]

It happens more often than people think it doesPirate

Can you expand on that???????


dks13827  (C 9293)

Jun 13, 2011, 7:13 PM
Post #46 of 162 (1986 views)
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Re: [jumpsalot-2] Chasing your student into the ground!?! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
[I will never ever understand someone consciously waiting on an AAD to save them...]

It happens more often than people think it doesPirate
Totally agree ! I had a total on jump 15 and by golly I pulled that reserve right now !!! ( had a Sentinel on ). My T-10 then came out hanging below me and I chopped it immediately. My 2 cents.
In reply to:
Can two rounds out play nicely together, or do you need to cut away ?
That is actually not too bad, 2 rounds out, no downplane !! ha ha. I saw a student with 2 rounds out ( totally stable situation ) and everyone screamed to chop the main. He did, and his 24 foot non steerable proceeded to oscillate him very hard into the ground.. no broken bones, fortunately.


Andrewwhyte  (C 1988)

Jun 14, 2011, 9:25 AM
Post #47 of 162 (1843 views)
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Re: [dks13827] Chasing your student into the ground!?! [In reply to] Can't Post

As I understood the theory behind chopping a round main it was to avoid entanglement with the reserve pilot chute. Pilot chuteless "pull and punch" reserves did not require a cutaway.
Once both canopies are deployed there would be no point to cutting away.


hekle  (B 32445)

Jun 14, 2011, 11:13 AM
Post #48 of 162 (1804 views)
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Re: [davelepka] Chasing your student into the ground!?! [In reply to] Can't Post

Its good to know the assholes know who they are. I'm also glad to learn how much hand signals could have fixed the situation. But the truth is, this was a very good learning aid for people who want to improve themselves as coaches and instructors, and not just belittle and berate an individual who chose to take on the huge responsibility of holding an instructional rating. The mistakes made in this situation started on the ground and were made by more than just the coach. This "student" was an experienced D licensed skydiver making a SECOND re-currency jump. So certain assumptions were made. It is correct to state that this individual should not have been placed with a coach but thats the luxury of hind sight. The coach was told this jumper was a little rusty but not unsafe. I too find it difficult to understand how he was able to demonstrate ability enough to be placed with a coach after his FIRST re-currency jump, but he must have, because, while our instructors may demonstrate some tact and consideration, they are not in the habit of passing unsafe jumpers on to the coaches. I would still like to see this video posted for other coaches and instructors to learn from, but facebook was not the appropriate medium, and I doubt that the coach is ready for another round of merciless abuse.


CarloC  (D 252794)

Jun 14, 2011, 12:51 PM
Post #49 of 162 (1743 views)
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Re: [chuckakers] Chasing your student into the ground!?! [In reply to] Can't Post

I personally know 2 jumpers whom had cypress fire and both said they were aware and waited for the cypress to fire their reserve.
They locked, just locked in belly position.Pirate
One tried 2 times to deploy the main and freeze in position and the other had a hard time to extract the pilot chute and waited for the cypress, no intention whatsoever to deploy the reserve.
Both of them had more than 100 jumps when it happened.


(This post was edited by CarloC on Jun 14, 2011, 12:57 PM)


Premier DSE  (D 29060)
Moderator
Jun 14, 2011, 5:28 PM
Post #50 of 162 (1663 views)
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Re: [Zymurdoo] Chasing your student into the ground!?! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
My (untested) theory is that if you want the student to pull, seeing their instructor deploy should set the wheels in motion.

It does. Or at least has with one whose video I've seen.


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