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bunkerup  (A 614533)

Jun 2, 2011, 6:38 PM
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I have recently started my AFF. I know I need to make approx 12 coached jumps after my 7 AFF. My question is this, if the DZ charges 95 including rental my ride and the coaches jump does the coach recieve anything other than the free jump. This sure seems like a great thing for someone who loves to jump and helping others enjoy the sport more and by all means I appreciate the assistance. I was just wondering if tipping is expected or required. Thanks for the info


Deisel  (D 31661)

Jun 2, 2011, 6:49 PM
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First off - its not a free jump. Done correctly, coaching is work. And when youre the only coach on the DZ on a saturday afternoon, you can end up getting worked into the ground!

To answer the question - no, a tip is not required or expected. Buy jump tickets (for you - not the coach) and beer (for you AND all your new best friends) instead.

For me, the biggest payoff is seeing someone finally accomplish something that had been a challenge. If learning happens and I can be a part of that, then Ive had a good day at the DZ.

Keep jumping and have fun.


bunkerup  (A 614533)

Jun 2, 2011, 6:57 PM
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Re: [Deisel] coaches [In reply to] Can't Post

By no means did I intend to imply that coaching is not work. I do a fair amount of training and precepting in my career and I understand the amount of effort that goes into each and every class or sesion. Thanks for the input and the beer will flow.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Jun 2, 2011, 7:18 PM
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In reply to:
For me, the biggest payoff is seeing someone finally accomplish something that had been a challenge. If learning happens and I can be a part of that, then Ive had a good day at the DZ.

Keep jumping and have fun.

AMEN, Brotha!


Deisel  (D 31661)

Jun 2, 2011, 7:32 PM
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Re: [bunkerup] coaches [In reply to] Can't Post

I wasnt trying to flame you out, bro. There are plenty of other folks that will read this. Some of them are potential coaches or those considering getting a rating. There are also plenty that truly believe that being a coach (or TM/AFFI/whatever) is all about getting free jumps and some dont ever consider the responsibility and commitment involved. I truly hate working around these type of people. So I was kind of putting it out there as food for thought for anyone thinking about doing it.


monkycndo  (D License)

Jun 2, 2011, 7:35 PM
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Re: [bunkerup] coaches [In reply to] Can't Post

During a jump, having a student look over at you and give the biggest shit eating grin because they just nailed it is one reason why I coach. Not sure who was wearing the bigger smile, me or my student.

Just something I learned from my first coach.

Thanks K-Bob.Smile


jonathan.newman  (D 30644)

Jun 2, 2011, 7:49 PM
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Re: [bunkerup] coaches [In reply to] Can't Post

It all depends on the DZ. Some club DZs have coaches who don't get paid for the jump. Another pays $10 for the jump. Another $15, and another $20.

Oh, and yes, we get paid with smiles and little warm fuzzies, too.


danielcroft  (D 31103)

Jun 2, 2011, 8:59 PM
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Re: [jonathan.newman] coaches [In reply to] Can't Post

We get paid for coach jumps at my DZ but I don't bother putting in for them, I just like helping people out. I did a "coach" jump the other day which was actually just a two way with a guy who didn't have his A yet. We had a dive plan and did pretty well at it and the student had fun, I don't need money for that. I did get my slot paid for which was great but it was a good time irrespective.

edit: no tip expected or required! Smile


(This post was edited by danielcroft on Jun 2, 2011, 9:01 PM)


labrys  (D 29848)

Jun 2, 2011, 9:17 PM
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Re: [bunkerup] coaches [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I was just wondering if tipping is expected or required.

Required? Oh hell no. Expected? If you get that vibe, go someplace else. To a much larger degree, instructors take massively more responsibility jumping with students and have usually invested a hell of a lot more time, effort, and money in getting where they are.

I think they can more reasonably "expect" tips although many of the people who work to get that rating don't think as much about tips.


Joellercoaster  (D 105792)

Jun 3, 2011, 2:26 AM
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Re: [bunkerup] coaches [In reply to] Can't Post

Coaching works a little differently here to the US, but I think people do it for the same reasons.

It's genuinely work, and there is always more demand than supply - at some DZs, if you don't say no, then you will coach all weekend, every weekend. The free jumps don't remotely cover the time you spend briefing, debriefing, psychoanalysing, and (importantly) not doing other jumps.

But it's worth it. Further compensation than this is not required:

Pay attention, smile, improve, buy us a beer :)


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Jun 8, 2011, 12:14 PM
Post #11 of 71 (2821 views)
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In reply to:
Coaching works a little differently here to the US, but I think people do it for the same reasons.

It's genuinely work, and there is always more demand than supply - at some DZs, if you don't say no, then you will coach all weekend, every weekend. The free jumps don't remotely cover the time you spend briefing, debriefing, psychoanalysing, and (importantly) not doing other jumps.

But it's worth it. Further compensation than this is not required:

Pay attention, smile, improve, buy us a beer :)

And stick around to help us drink that beer!!! Beer!


ShayneH  (F License)

Jun 8, 2011, 5:46 PM
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Re: [skyjumpenfool] coaches [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm assuming that you're talking about Mile Hi. If that's the case, then yes, the coach gets paid for the jump, and the DZ is not making any profit on said jump.

Tipping is not expected, however, a case of beer usually goes over pretty well.


The_Don  (B License)

Jun 8, 2011, 6:53 PM
Post #13 of 71 (2727 views)
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Re: [Deisel] coaches [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I wasnt trying to flame you out, bro.

There are also plenty that truly believe that being a coach
is all about getting free jumps

This is what I HATE about the "coach" rating.

No talent, 100 jumps, got the rating...

Screw the newbies!!!!! Free jumps!!!! Mad


nigel99  (D 1)

Jun 9, 2011, 2:42 AM
Post #14 of 71 (2697 views)
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Re: [The_Don] coaches [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I wasnt trying to flame you out, bro.

There are also plenty that truly believe that being a coach
is all about getting free jumps

This is what I HATE about the "coach" rating.

No talent, 100 jumps, got the rating...

Screw the newbies!!!!! Free jumps!!!! Mad

As someone looking into the coach rating, I would hope that you are wrong. Granted someone with 100 jumps is not as skilled a jumper as someone with a C or D license. The course outline shows a fair amount of emphasis on the teaching aspect which is something that jumps (and skydiving talent) don't necessarily build on.

I see the coach rating as a step towards jumping with and helping new jumpers. A coach is really the first person who is not an instructor that you should be jumping with. For the student that is a step forward and it obviously carries significant responsibility for the coach.

I would hope that a newly qualified coach is providing their services free of charge as they are getting as much from the jump as the student. However having the slot paid for as a coach should be adequate return for the coach who is a fun jumper (not their day job).

I also think we either have beer rules or tipping. I like the beer rules so would prefer to see them stay (but then I haven't made a career out of jumping).


hokierower  (B 36150)

Jun 9, 2011, 3:06 PM
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Re: [nigel99] coaches [In reply to] Can't Post

I know that for my 7 AFF coached jumps (8-14), the cost was $100 and covered my slot ($22), the coach's slot ($22), the gear rental ($30), and then $10 for the coach. The rest ($15-20) went to the DZ.

I'm only at 20 jumps but I'm looking forward to getting my coach's rating. It's the same way when I was a rowing coach, seeing the look on a kids face when everything clicks and they feel great about themselves.

Mucho thanks to Khawk & Marion for my coached jumps.


Feeblemind  (D 28621)

Jun 10, 2011, 6:30 AM
Post #16 of 71 (2504 views)
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Re: [The_Don] coaches [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I wasnt trying to flame you out, bro.

There are also plenty that truly believe that being a coach
is all about getting free jumps

This is what I HATE about the "coach" rating.

No talent, 100 jumps, got the rating...

Screw the newbies!!!!! Free jumps!!!! Mad

The coach I/E in this area will not rubber stamp a rating! If you are a no talent 100 jump wonder you will not get a rating if you lack the skills.


rowet  (D License)

Jun 10, 2011, 7:19 AM
Post #17 of 71 (2488 views)
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Re: [ShayneH] coaches [In reply to] Can't Post

and I would disagree the DZ aka Frank doesn't make any money on the jump. First 28+28 for the two slots. Is the DZ not making any money for the two slots paid for? at 28 bucks a jump I think they are doing well. Then 25 for the gear rental per jump. So if those rigs are 6000 a piece then after about 300 jumps they have to be paid off and making money for the DZ after packers and cost of repacks ect. And many of those rigs have been there for a long time which = cash making for the DZ on rental rigs. And the coach does make cash/jump and always like beer or tips but tips are not necessary.


pirana  (D 30661)

Jun 22, 2011, 7:19 AM
Post #18 of 71 (2280 views)
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Re: [bunkerup] coaches [In reply to] Can't Post

I think we need a sign on the fridge:

ATTENTION AFF STUDENTS
If you feel the need to tip,
put some beer in me instead.
Good stuff though - if you are
tempted to get Icehouse, Bud
Light, Coors, etc - give the $$$
to a more experienced jumper
and they will demonstrate proper
execution of a beer transaction.

Is that too much for a sticker?


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Jun 22, 2011, 1:42 PM
Post #19 of 71 (2238 views)
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Re: [The_Don] coaches [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
This is what I HATE about the "coach" rating.
No talent, 100 jumps, got the rating...
Screw the newbies!!!!! Free jumps!!!! Mad

I notice that YOU don't have a Coach rating yet?
Surely you are interested in helping out the Pre-A youngsters, eh?


Rstanley0312  (D 31900)

Jun 22, 2011, 1:55 PM
Post #20 of 71 (2227 views)
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Re: [Feeblemind] coaches [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
I wasnt trying to flame you out, bro.

There are also plenty that truly believe that being a coach
is all about getting free jumps

This is what I HATE about the "coach" rating.

No talent, 100 jumps, got the rating...

Screw the newbies!!!!! Free jumps!!!! Mad

The coach I/E in this area will not rubber stamp a rating! If you are a no talent 100 jump wonder you will not get a rating if you lack the skills.

It is the same at my DZ. I earned mine... probably more so then some T/I's that I have heard about.

Crazy


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Jun 23, 2011, 1:34 AM
Post #21 of 71 (2184 views)
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Re: [Rstanley0312] coaches [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
... I earned mine... probably more so then some T/I's that I have heard about.

Crazy

Oh, hell. Now you got me started on that whole rating requirement thing.
Mad

It severely grinds my shorts that you can get get a Coach rating one day and an AFF or TI rating the next. Stupid USPA. It's unbelievable how often that happens.


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Jun 23, 2011, 5:29 AM
Post #22 of 71 (2173 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] coaches [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
... I earned mine... probably more so then some T/I's that I have heard about.

Crazy

Oh, hell. Now you got me started on that whole rating requirement thing.
Mad

It severely grinds my shorts that you can get get a Coach rating one day and an AFF or TI rating the next. Stupid USPA. It's unbelievable how often that happens.

They listened, that can only happen if the Candidate has 500 jumps or more now. The rest have to wait 12 months after the Coach Course for an I Course.

Matt


brucet7  (C 38954)

Jun 23, 2011, 7:03 AM
Post #23 of 71 (2147 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] coaches [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

I notice that YOU don't have a Coach rating yet?
Surely you are interested in helping out the Pre-A youngsters, eh?

That is why I coach. Tuesday I walked up to a 13 jump student and asked if he wanted company. His first question, "Will it cost me?" Nope. I am on the load, he needed to practice his dive to dock so lets go. No tip, no beer, just a little free advice. "Get your legs off you rear and don't backslide."


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Jun 23, 2011, 7:47 AM
Post #24 of 71 (2138 views)
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In reply to:
They listened, that can only happen if the Candidate has 500 jumps or more now. The rest have to wait 12 months after the Coach Course for an I Course.

Nope. They only partially listened.
500 OR 12 months.
Didn't change a damned thing for >500 people.

500 jumps and an AFF rating with still no experience teaching anything.
BS.

Never even taught an FJC.
BS


Did I say BS?
Let me repeat that....BS!


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Jun 23, 2011, 7:52 AM
Post #25 of 71 (2136 views)
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Re: [brucet7] coaches [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
That is why I coach. Tuesday I walked up to a 13 jump student and asked if he wanted company. His first question, "Will it cost me?" Nope. I am on the load, he needed to practice his dive to dock so lets go. No tip, no beer, just a little free advice. "Get your legs off you rear and don't backslide."

And hopefully, you actually worked with him...
Explaining, demonstration from you vertically, then him, horizontally, then him, etc. Good oral and written debrief with corrective demonstration and practice.


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