Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Aborting low turn

 


format  (B 15348)

May 15, 2011, 3:37 AM
Post #1 of 9 (1415 views)
Shortcut
Aborting low turn Can't Post

I would like to be prepared for surprise and react the best I can. I want to know the best.
How does one train for aborting manoevre?


wolfriverjoe  (A 50013)

May 15, 2011, 5:06 AM
Post #2 of 9 (1383 views)
Shortcut
Re: [format] Aborting low turn [In reply to] Can't Post

THIS article is a good place to start.

And while Billvon's Downsizing Checklist is a list of skills you should have before moving to a smaller canopy, they are really good things to know how to do on the one you are currently flying too.

There's more in the Safety and Training section here on DZ.com. Those are just the two that I thought of first.


format  (B 15348)

May 15, 2011, 5:37 AM
Post #3 of 9 (1371 views)
Shortcut
Re: [wolfriverjoe] Aborting low turn [In reply to] Can't Post

Of coarse, thank you.

I read it years ago. I just didn't connect it with "aborting", while it clearly is a set of maneuvers needed.

I should reread it at least ones per season.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
May 15, 2011, 7:50 PM
Post #4 of 9 (1206 views)
Shortcut
Re: [format] Aborting low turn [In reply to] Can't Post

>How does one train for aborting manoevre?

1) learn flat turns and flare turns
2) do some front riser work up high to learn what your canopy feels like in a steep dive

When you do have to abort, B Germain recommends simultaneously leveling the wing and getting deep into brakes. Not so deep you stall, but deep enough to use all the canopy's lift to arrest your descent. The leveling the wing part is important because if you are in a 90 degree bank, pulling down on the toggles does not slow your descent; it just pulls you sideways.

As always, practicing this up high _before_ you need it is a very good idea.


AggieDave  (D License)

May 16, 2011, 6:24 AM
Post #5 of 9 (1128 views)
Shortcut
Re: [format] Aborting low turn [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I would like to be prepared for surprise and react the best I can. I want to know the best.
How does one train for aborting manoevre?

Training to abort a failed swoop attempt or training to abort a much to low accidental toggle turn?

Both of those are failures that started long before the front riser or the toggle was pulled. Others have already covered the basic idea of "wing-level then stop" using your toggles. Lets talk about preventing the low turn in the first place.

Everything is based on a landing pattern. Landing patterns aren't just to make everyone easier to fly with at a DZ, it is something that sets you up for a successful landing. That is a successful landing with enough time after your turn onto final to re-achieve neutral flight.

That also applies to landing off the DZ and that also applies to swooping. While landing off the airport, your same landing pattern for the ground winds of the day can just be slid over to your new chosen landing field. If you're presented with obstacles or variables in that landing that you had not seen and planned for, then a simple flat turn can save your life.

If this is in response to an aborted swoop attempt, then there were something things that failed along the way to leave you in that position. First of all is attitude not altitude. Approaching each swoop attempt with the understanding that you are willing to stop the attempt at any moment and have a standard landing. That you will not try to "save" a swoop, once it is over it is over until the next jump. Next, the altitude that you turn at is something that you explore well away from the ground. You use altitude clear and pulls to start building a "window of opportunity" for your turn. Finding what is the lowest you can safely turn as well as the highest. You'll also work on finding the "golden altitude" that will give you the best performance for your turn. Yes, I understand that the altitudes will be slightly different due to density altitude, but it gives you some numbers to work with. This is something that is built over time and practice.

Once you have those altitudes, you don't violate those altitudes. You practiced and learned these things to help you make good decisions. Those numbers are used to build your landing pattern. The altitudes that you use for your downwind and your base leg may be different than one of a standard approach, adjust to put yourself over your swoop lane at your desired altitude for your window of opportunity.

That is not to say that as you progress you may find yourself a little low, but the drills and skills that I talk about here are the tools you will use to try to make sure you're only a little low. Something you can safely recover from; not so low that your toggles don't arrest the dive, the earth does.


Bertt  (D 99999)

May 18, 2011, 9:37 PM
Post #6 of 9 (911 views)
Shortcut
Re: [AggieDave] Aborting low turn [In reply to] Can't Post

Question about those altitudes:
If you learn to swoop in Florida, then spend the summer in Colorado (for example), do you have to re-calibrate the altitudes because of the difference in density altitude?
Would the same apply to the difference between winter in Florida and summer in Florida?


AggieDave  (D License)

May 19, 2011, 2:12 AM
Post #7 of 9 (880 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Bertt] Aborting low turn [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Question about those altitudes:
If you learn to swoop in Florida, then spend the summer in Colorado (for example), do you have to re-calibrate the altitudes because of the difference in density altitude?
Would the same apply to the difference between winter in Florida and summer in Florida?

Yes.

The obvious major difference is the safety between going from Colorado to Florida, in comparison to going from Florida to Colorado. Being that if you jump at DeLand and go to Mile-Hi and do your normal turn at your normal altitude, you're probably going to impact the earth. If reversed then people are probably going to point and snicker because you really air-balled a swoop.

That is the extreme example. The difference day-to-day at the same DZ can make a difference. This is especially true the with smaller and higher loaded canopies (although density altitude will effect larger canopies in the same manner, the differences are significantly more important the faster you are going). Experienced canopy pilots tend to adjust for the minor changes while in their turn. In experienced canopy pilots sometimes wondering about the change after they strike the ground. That is yet another reason why experienced canopy pilots try to help lower time jumpers make better canopy choices and progression decisions.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

May 27, 2011, 9:23 AM
Post #8 of 9 (719 views)
Shortcut
Re: [format] Aborting low turn [In reply to] Can't Post

Go visit the Australian Parachute Federation's website and look up their pamphlet on "High Performance Canopies," because it contains an exercise about levelling the canopy while simultaneously going into deep brakes.

Practice that exercise - up high - a few times, until you know how is "just enough brakes" and how much will get you into an "accelerated stall."

Once you have figured out "just enough brakes," pound your hands (with toggles) into your hips a couple of times to burn the position into longer-term memory.


format  (B 15348)

May 28, 2011, 12:01 PM
Post #9 of 9 (635 views)
Shortcut
Re: [riggerrob] Aborting low turn [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Go visit the Australian Parachute Federation's website and look up their pamphlet on "High Performance Canopies,"

It's great Article, thanks.

In reply to:
pound your hands (with toggles) into your hips a couple of times to burn the position into longer-term memory.
This too



Forums : Skydiving : Safety and Training

 


Search for (options)