Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Would you be interested in medical training and certification for dropzone staff?

 


Poll: Would you be interested in a medical training and certification for dropzone staff?
Yes 37 / 60%
No 13 / 21%
Maybe, it depends. 12 / 19%
62 total votes
 
FireFlyer2009  (B 33709)

May 4, 2011, 12:32 PM
Post #1 of 15 (1583 views)
Shortcut
Would you be interested in medical training and certification for dropzone staff? Can't Post

I was wondering about the interest level about creating a medical training certification for dropzone staff. I am a 20 year firefighter/paramedic and have been recreational skydiving since 2009. All of the training is readily available for safe RW, CREW, FreeFly, Wingsuit, Coach/Instructor, but no certifications for training dropzone staff to respond to emergencies.

I was thinking along the lines of a 16 hr. certification course that would provide classroom and hands on training to respond and provide initial treatment to injured skydivers.

Looking for input and testing the waters of interest.

Blue Skies!!


(This post was edited by FireFlyer2009 on May 4, 2011, 12:34 PM)


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

May 4, 2011, 1:21 PM
Post #2 of 15 (1533 views)
Shortcut
Re: [FireFlyer2009] Would you be interested in medical training and certification for dropzone staff? [In reply to] Can't Post

Start with basic first aid (red cross certificate) and move onto first responder stuff?? My point is, many professions (teachers, county workers, etc.) require some first aid certificate proof for licensure. Align it with those and you become more valid. Alot of us are part timers that would be interested.


FireFlyer2009  (B 33709)

May 4, 2011, 1:54 PM
Post #3 of 15 (1513 views)
Shortcut
Re: [skyjumpenfool] Would you be interested in medical training and certification for dropzone staff? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Start with basic first aid (red cross certificate) and move onto first responder stuff?? My point is, many professions (teachers, county workers, etc.) require some first aid certificate proof for licensure. Align it with those and you become more valid. Alot of us are part timers that would be interested.

I was thinking of a certification program through American Heart Association (AHA) that would include first aide training, CPR, and AED (Automatic Defibrillator) training. Combining these certifications into a program tailored for skydivers and dropzone staff. No reason to limit training to staff only as everyone benefits from training, right?

It's just inevitable that with any extreme sport comes injuries. Not having the training when you need it is an unfortunate drama that can be avoided. Being able to properly care for someone before rescue arrives can be the difference maker for sure. I've been a Paramedic for 22 years and always appreciate people with proper training that initiate care before I can arrive on scene.

There are also many reasons to have an automatic defibrillator at the dropzone. They don't take much to operate and a person that needs rapid defibrillation isn't going to make it if they have to wait for a rescue unit to get there. As well everyone knows that if your brain is without oxygen for more than 5 minutes than you have brain damage. Being able to provide rescue breathing for someone who got knocked unconscious might save them the rest of their life with brain damage.

I'm just trying to guage some interest level Wink


grimmie  (D 18890)

May 4, 2011, 2:05 PM
Post #4 of 15 (1503 views)
Shortcut
Re: [FireFlyer2009] Would you be interested in medical training and certification for dropzone staff? [In reply to] Can't Post

I am currently working on a curriculum like you have described, just for trauma. Unfortunately here in California we are running into some legal issues under who to certify them under. Send me your info and I will mail you my EMS training video.


obelixtim  (D 84)

May 4, 2011, 4:51 PM
Post #5 of 15 (1454 views)
Shortcut
Re: [grimmie] Would you be interested in medical training and certification for dropzone staff? [In reply to] Can't Post

 In many parts of the world a first aid course is a pre requisite for ratings like DZSO, JM and Instructor. It has to be current, which means a refresher every couple of years or so.

You never needed too much advanced stuff, because most injuries were lower leg injuries from landing, and all you had to do was immobilise and treat for shock, the ambulance guys would get pissed off if you tried any advanced stuff like splinting.

The other cases were most likely instant death from terminal impact, when medical training was useless anyway.

The increase in really severe landing injuries these days where the golden hour is in play means advanced trauma training is a very good idea.


FireFlyer2009  (B 33709)

May 4, 2011, 5:00 PM
Post #6 of 15 (1446 views)
Shortcut
Re: [obelixtim] Would you be interested in medical training and certification for dropzone staff? [In reply to] Can't Post

I definitely agree.

With the accidents that are happening more regularly related to approaches, swoops, and landings it might be a good idea to know how to hold c-spine and immobilize someone on a spine board and open an airway. All these basic things should be reviewed and practiced annually.

For anyone who doesn't have any medical training whatsoever, the type of training certification I am talking about would be no more difficult to learn then AFF.

Making things simple and effective is the priority. If I were to have some sort of injury at the DZ I would definitely want someone to be able to help me out right away.


Rugby82  (D 705310)

May 4, 2011, 10:59 PM
Post #7 of 15 (1396 views)
Shortcut
Re: [obelixtim] Would you be interested in medical training and certification for dropzone staff? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In many parts of the world a first aid course is a pre requisite for ratings like DZSO, JM and Instructor. It has to be current, which means a refresher every couple of years or so.

You never needed too much advanced stuff, because most injuries were lower leg injuries from landing, and all you had to do was immobilise and treat for shock, the ambulance guys would get pissed off if you tried any advanced stuff like splinting.

The other cases were most likely instant death from terminal impact, when medical training was useless anyway.

The increase in really severe landing injuries these days where the golden hour is in play means advanced trauma training is a very good idea.


Our dropzone offers basic first aid training once every year. If you're in the instructors training program you need to follow this course to complete the training.


FireFlyer2009  (B 33709)

May 5, 2011, 2:54 PM
Post #8 of 15 (1329 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Rugby82] Would you be interested in medical training and certification for dropzone staff? [In reply to] Can't Post

Looks like more specific minimum training guidelines is probably overdue for our sport as it pertains to organized and certified DZ's. The minimum training requirements for Instructors needs to be expanded and more specific. Possibly an Emergency Response Plan for DZ's could prove to be of value.

Thanks for all the PM's and info.

Looking for at least 100 votes on the poll to get a good idea of interest.

Please VOTE - Blue Skies!!


tkhayes  (D 18764)

May 10, 2011, 3:43 AM
Post #9 of 15 (1223 views)
Shortcut
Re: [FireFlyer2009] Would you be interested in medical training and certification for dropzone staff? [In reply to] Can't Post

we doa CPR refresher for staff every year, not mandatory, but quite a few take it, and everyone has taken it at some point in the past.


FireFlyer2009  (B 33709)

May 10, 2011, 6:45 PM
Post #10 of 15 (1200 views)
Shortcut
Re: [tkhayes] Would you be interested in medical training and certification for dropzone staff? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
we doa CPR refresher for staff every year, not mandatory, but quite a few take it, and everyone has taken it at some point in the past.

That's good, sometimes CPR will work to save a life. Refreshers should be done annually because for some reason they change the procedures pretty frequently.

Unfortunately CPR training isn't exactly the type of training for the 99% of skydiving injuries that happen. Traumatic full arrests have almost a 100% mortality rate. Basic First Aid and how it relates to skydiving injuries can be taught in a few hours. The certifications from American Heart for CPR & AED (automatic external defibrillator) are second and third to basic first aid for skydiving injuries.

Blue Skies!!


Ron

May 11, 2011, 8:44 AM
Post #11 of 15 (1170 views)
Shortcut
Re: [FireFlyer2009] Would you be interested in medical training and certification for dropzone staff? [In reply to] Can't Post

I like the idea.... But here is the rub. My interest would depend on the laws in the State I am in.

Most States have a good sam law.... Some States this only applies to regular folks with little or no medical training.

So, if the State I was in said that the level of class would still allow me to fall under the "normal" guy... then it is a great idea.

If it elevated me to a higher level of expectation.... then no way would I be interested in any "official" anything.

It would totally depend on the States laws.


FireFlyer2009  (B 33709)

May 18, 2011, 2:58 AM
Post #12 of 15 (1095 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Ron] Would you be interested in medical training and certification for dropzone staff? [In reply to] Can't Post

The Good Samaritan Laws that are normally in place from state to state cover a person who is trying to help another person out in an emergency. If we didn't have these laws then nobody would help anyone when they needed it.

I am not an attorney, however as a healthcare professional you are held to the standards set for whichever license or certifications you hold. The Good Samaritan Law still applies but is held to a higher standard than a non-healthcare professional. As a healthcare professional you are held to the standard of care that any other prudent person of the same classification. In order to have any negligence you would have to have acted in a manner that was not consistent with a person of the same standard of training and education. That's the basics of the Good Sam Law and Negligence. With that, simply because you had a class in CPR, First Aide, or AED training as a safety course doesn't and wouldn't qualify you as a healthcare professional in any sense of the word.

If you take a safety class and they teach you not to move someone around because they could have a spinal injury, then you wouldn't go up and start moving their neck and asking them if it hurt. That would be negligence.

On the other side...If you had a friend that was hurt and there was a possibility that he/she had a spinal injury, and you were trained in a safety course, you probably wouldn't allow the guy or girl to come up and start moving their neck around to see if it hurt.

I believe that would explain the difference as to the Good SaM law and how it's applied. The degree of training that you might get form a basic trauma life support class for skydivers would simply give you the ability to act instead of hope. As well you could ease the pain and minimize the suffering of someone you know. Ultimately it's possible that you could save their life, keep them from further injury, and maybe be the difference between them being in a wheelchair for the rest of their lives or walking away.

Blue Skies!!


bryanburke  (D 8866)

Jun 3, 2011, 6:39 PM
Post #13 of 15 (988 views)
Shortcut
Re: [FireFlyer2009] Would you be interested in medical training and certification for dropzone staff? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi,

I only visit this site once or twice a month, hence the delay. I work at a very big DZ and respond to accidents pretty regularly. It has been a long-time interest of mine to get something similar to the ski patrol going for skydiving.

Here's my take on your idea. For reference, I'm not currently rated but have had EMT and Ski Patrol certification and have been through literally hundreds of ambulance/helicopter calls to DZs.

1: You are right that CPR training is worthless when somebody arrests due to decelleration trauma. In addition, the entire medical end of first aid training is worthless on a DZ unless a spectator has a seizure. We're all trauma.
2: Basic splinting, wound dressing, etc is nice, but with an ambulance usually within 20 minutes, not really urgent. However, it will save a lot of ambulance calls if the injury is minor and should be covered extensively, including dislocations, fractures, sprains, and soft tissue injuries.
3: Airway (including suction), C-spine, and communication with EMS is where it's at with a serious skydiving injury.
4: If nothing else, teaching people how to interact with their EMS would be a big step. Fire departments near a DZ would probably love a chance to simulate a plane crash scenario. (Ours does!) It's a lot different than a car wreck. That kind of interaction can really help in long term relationships between DZ and EMS.
5: For DZs a long way from the nearest fire station, I think WFR is probably better than EMT.

I'll be traveling all summer but would love to follow up when I can. Please e-mail me if you go forward. bryantburke@hotmail.com. Grimmie has also had a long interest in this theme.


doi  (D License)

Jun 4, 2011, 6:46 PM
Post #14 of 15 (963 views)
Shortcut
Re: [FireFlyer2009] Would you be interested in medical training and certification for dropzone staff? [In reply to] Can't Post

All instructors in New Zealand must be a current workplace first aid certifecate holder, all instructors also must have a DZSO (S&TA) rating.


PennQuaker  (Student)

Jun 17, 2011, 7:15 PM
Post #15 of 15 (844 views)
Shortcut
Re: [FireFlyer2009] Would you be interested in medical training and certification for dropzone staff? [In reply to] Can't Post

Just for comparison: In Germany people are required to take a basic first-responder course if they want to get a driver's license...



Forums : Skydiving : Safety and Training

 


Search for (options)