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Pencil-Whipping Fail

 

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NovaTTT  (D 17887)

May 3, 2011, 6:46 PM
Post #1 of 61 (2746 views)
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Pencil-Whipping Fail Can't Post

I use a stamper when I sign PDCs. Just got word that this past weekend a jumper pencil-whipped a different rigger's name and info and tried to check his gear at manifest with my seal still on the rig.

He jumped rental gear that day.

Note to self: That stamper was a good idea! Laugh


JohnRich  (D License)

May 3, 2011, 8:05 PM
Post #2 of 61 (2670 views)
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Re: [NovaTTT] Pencil-Whipping Fail [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I use a stamper when I sign PDCs. Just got word that this past weekend a jumper pencil-whipped a different rigger's name and info and tried to check his gear at manifest with my seal still on the rig.
He jumped rental gear that day.

I take it that your stamp includes your seal code, which didn't match that of the new rigger info.

Maybe he should have been grounded for the day, instead of just letting him incur a monetary penalty.

P.S. Note to newbies: "Pencil whipping" is a nickname for "pencil packing", and refers to the illegal practice of faking a reserve repack, by simply filling out the packing data card (PDC) with a new entry, without ever actually repacking the reserve canopy.


(This post was edited by JohnRich on May 3, 2011, 8:07 PM)


pchapman  (D 1014)

May 3, 2011, 8:46 PM
Post #3 of 61 (2639 views)
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Re: [NovaTTT] Pencil-Whipping Fail [In reply to] Can't Post

A pencil whipping story of mine:
It isn't a big deal, but nowadays I made sure to always write the day of the month with two digits, e.g., "03 May" not "3 May". One time before that, a rig came back to me where my last repack of the 3rd of some month had mysteriously become the 23rd of the month on the card.

I told the jumper that I was charging him an extra $30 that repack as a fine. He asked where the fine money would go, such as to the CSPA. No, I told him, I just made it up, and the money was going to my personal beer fund.

He shut up & paid up, and we've stayed on good terms since, without problems.

Sometimes crime does pay... for someone.


DBCOOPER  (D 24112)

May 4, 2011, 5:12 AM
Post #4 of 61 (2519 views)
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Re: [pchapman] Pencil-Whipping Fail [In reply to] Can't Post

WTF isn't the expiration date of the pack job put on the pdc along with the date it was packed? Might eliminate the need for a pencil a lot of times.


NovaTTT  (D 17887)

May 4, 2011, 9:47 AM
Post #5 of 61 (2385 views)
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Re: [DBCOOPER] Pencil-Whipping Fail [In reply to] Can't Post

I've never seen a card with a " next I&R due no later than" space.

But when I return a rig it comes with a little paperwork and prominently featured on that paperwork is that very date.

And let's not forget that it is the gear owner's responsibility to keep up with that. It's not like the repack cycle is a kept secret. Wink


masterrig  (D License)

May 4, 2011, 11:00 AM
Post #6 of 61 (2354 views)
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Re: [NovaTTT] Pencil-Whipping Fail [In reply to] Can't Post

I always put a 'due date' on the packing data card as well as a bright colored sticker on the reserve handle with the due date. The reason for the sticker was for those who didn't check the data card very often.


Chuck


Unstable  (D 28930)

May 4, 2011, 11:08 AM
Post #7 of 61 (2346 views)
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Re: [NovaTTT] Pencil-Whipping Fail [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Note to self: That stamper was a good idea!

I'd agree ~ but I find that there are too many different variations of packing data cards in use to make an efficient purchase. I learned to sign cards in a unique enough way to reduce the chances of an effective pencil pack. Mediocre solution, but it works. Crazy


NovaTTT  (D 17887)

May 4, 2011, 11:54 AM
Post #8 of 61 (2316 views)
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Re: [Unstable] Pencil-Whipping Fail [In reply to] Can't Post

When this came up, I considered a "Colour of the Month" pen as a possible solution.

Who wants to keep track of that, though? That's not where I want to spend my time and thoughts, and it's not a big concern of mine in the first place.

So I chose a stamper and put the info in the most common (as seen on PDCs) layout and I just stamp 'em all that way.

Works for me - fits neatly into my sealing/logging ritual. Not that I'm OCD about that or anything. Angelic Laugh


councilman24  (D 8631)

May 4, 2011, 12:19 PM
Post #9 of 61 (2294 views)
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Re: [NovaTTT] Pencil-Whipping Fail [In reply to] Can't Post

As I've said before, along with a stamp of my seal code I number all of my pack jobs. Both on the card and in my log. That way if someone even figures out that there should be a number it won't match my log and I can say to an investigator/FAA/jury "no, number xxxx was for this rig, not the rig in question. Here's the document."

People who forge my name are called ex-customers. I'm not here to keep someone from pencil packing, but DON'T forge my name!


DBCOOPER  (D 24112)

May 4, 2011, 2:32 PM
Post #10 of 61 (2242 views)
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Re: [pchapman] Pencil-Whipping Fail [In reply to] Can't Post

You know if there was an easy way to look at a PDC and tell when it was exipred I would agree with you. Its an antiquated system, left over from the military that based things on the Julian calendar. Everything else in aviation expires at the end of the month from the date it was done.Get your annual signed off on July 1st and you get an annual thats due July 31st the next year. If I pulled my data packing card out I couldn't tell you within 6 days of when it pumpkined out without finding a calendar or looking on the internet. Hell I've been told that the wiz wheel that they give out at boogies isn't accurate. So as long as somebody uses the right color pen to add a 1 or a 2 for 10 or 20 days who caresUnsure


firemedic  (D 29776)

May 4, 2011, 2:54 PM
Post #11 of 61 (2222 views)
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Re: [NovaTTT] Pencil-Whipping Fail [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I use a stamper when I sign PDCs. Just got word that this past weekend a jumper pencil-whipped a different rigger's name and info and tried to check his gear at manifest with my seal still on the rig.

He jumped rental gear that day.

Note to self: That stamper was a good idea! Laugh

I was using one also and an FAA guy showed up at my DZ one day doing a ramp check. He looked at the PDC on a rig and said that the signature has to be written. I bet that if you were to ask 10 FAA guys about that you would get 10 different answers.


masterrig  (D License)

May 4, 2011, 3:19 PM
Post #12 of 61 (2206 views)
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Re: [firemedic] Pencil-Whipping Fail [In reply to] Can't Post

I was told also, by a DPRE that the FAA would not accept a stampedsignature. The reasoning was the old story... 'What if, someone steals your stamp?'
I like the idea of numbering pack jobs.


Chuck


BrianM  (D 661)

May 4, 2011, 3:43 PM
Post #13 of 61 (2193 views)
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Re: [firemedic] Pencil-Whipping Fail [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I use a stamper when I sign PDCs. Just got word that this past weekend a jumper pencil-whipped a different rigger's name and info and tried to check his gear at manifest with my seal still on the rig.

He jumped rental gear that day.

Note to self: That stamper was a good idea! Laugh

I was using one also and an FAA guy showed up at my DZ one day doing a ramp check. He looked at the PDC on a rig and said that the signature has to be written. I bet that if you were to ask 10 FAA guys about that you would get 10 different answers.

My stamp - like most I've seen - is my certificate and seal numbers. I still sign with a pen.

I have seen a few that also include the name, but the rigger also signs with a pen - sometimes right over top of the stamped signture. Gives you a legal signature, but also a name you can actually read.


NovaTTT  (D 17887)

May 4, 2011, 4:56 PM
Post #14 of 61 (2151 views)
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Re: [BrianM] Pencil-Whipping Fail [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
the rigger also signs with a pen - sometimes right over top of the stamped signture. Gives you a legal signature, but also a name you can actually read.

Exactly. I sign under the stamp.

As far as I know there is no concensus on the use of stamps. I've heard 'yes' and 'no' from reliable sources. Best I can figure, it's a case-by-case situtation and I'm prepared to show that my PDCs are legal. Cool


obelixtim  (D 84)

May 4, 2011, 5:03 PM
Post #15 of 61 (2144 views)
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Re: [NovaTTT] Pencil-Whipping Fail [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Just got word that this past weekend a jumper pencil-whipped a different rigger's name and info and tried to check his gear at manifest with my seal still on the rig.

I would have shoved the pencil up his butt....sideways.


NovaTTT  (D 17887)

May 4, 2011, 5:34 PM
Post #16 of 61 (2125 views)
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Re: [JohnRich] Pencil-Whipping Fail [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Maybe he should have been grounded for the day, instead of just letting him incur a monetary penalty.

I think they should have done. Of course that doesn't help pay off rental gear. Crazy


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
May 4, 2011, 6:36 PM
Post #17 of 61 (2091 views)
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Re: [councilman24] Pencil-Whipping Fail [In reply to] Can't Post

I scratched the repack date into the lead seal on a few rigs that I suspect will be pencil packed as a second way of covering my self.


theonlyski  (D License)

May 4, 2011, 8:34 PM
Post #18 of 61 (2048 views)
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Re: [PhreeZone] Pencil-Whipping Fail [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I scratched the repack date into the lead seal on a few rigs that I suspect will be pencil packed as a second way of covering my self.

From what I've seen, it's fairly rare for someone to actually look that closely at the seal, much less the back. I can think of a place or two that I just had to bring my reserve card to manifest, no need to carry the rig up there and get checked.

I do like numbering the packjobs, maybe even start numbering the seal would work... if I could only figure that out!


airtwardo  (D License)

May 4, 2011, 9:05 PM
Post #19 of 61 (2036 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] Pencil-Whipping Fail [In reply to] Can't Post

 
I do like numbering the packjobs, maybe even start numbering the seal would work... if I could only figure that out!


1.....2.....3....Tongue


theonlyski  (D License)

May 4, 2011, 9:22 PM
Post #20 of 61 (2025 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Pencil-Whipping Fail [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I do like numbering the packjobs, maybe even start numbering the seal would work... if I could only figure that out!



1.....2.....3....Tongue

That's really gonna fuck up your pencil packing with my seal though.Laugh


piisfish

May 5, 2011, 12:18 AM
Post #21 of 61 (1997 views)
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Re: [DBCOOPER] Pencil-Whipping Fail [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
WTF isn't the expiration date of the pack job put on the pdc along with the date it was packed? Might eliminate the need for a pencil a lot of times.
we have a "free text" zone and/or an expiry date zone on our cards here in switz...
on american cards, in the "work performed" area, I usually write down I+R and "exp dd/mmm/yy"

in my neck of the woods morst repacks are valid for 1year, so if your AAD revision/batteries fall in middle of that, I can pack the rig with the actual date and an expiry earlier than the "normal" 1 year"


tdog  (D 28800)

May 5, 2011, 8:00 AM
Post #22 of 61 (1903 views)
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Re: [councilman24] Pencil-Whipping Fail [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'm not here to keep someone from pencil packing, but DON'T forge my name!

I AGREE... If you pencil pack, make up a rigger's name and seal. Don't take me down with you when something happens...


tdog  (D 28800)

May 5, 2011, 8:06 AM
Post #23 of 61 (1895 views)
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Re: [NovaTTT] Pencil-Whipping Fail [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Note to self: That stamper was a good idea! Laugh

I learned the hard way that ink from rubber stamps can wash off. A world champion swooper called me from a competition yelling at me, "dude, you did not sign my card!" When he got home I found out that the card got very wet in a pond swoop and the ink washed off.

I have a brand name rubber stamp with premium ink. It still washed off.

It does have a added positive side effect. The second my reserve packjob gets soaked in a pond, it is immediately invalid when the packing datacard goes suddenly blank.

So now for swoopers I use a sharpie magic marker instead.

Perhaps someone with a tad more time than I can play with different inks found at office supply stores and post here what ink works well so I can reink my stamp with ink that won't wash off??? FYI, I use red because I like the color to be a 'color'...


councilman24  (D 8631)

May 5, 2011, 11:09 AM
Post #24 of 61 (1836 views)
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Re: [PhreeZone] Pencil-Whipping Fail [In reply to] Can't Post

There is a two piece single die that has the center able to rotate and point at a month. I think center is the year.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
May 5, 2011, 12:46 PM
Post #25 of 61 (1798 views)
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Re: [tdog] Pencil-Whipping Fail [In reply to] Can't Post

>I AGREE... If you pencil pack, make up a rigger's name and seal.

Hell, sign your own name and SS#. That way if you go in they won't waste time trying to track down the rigger - they'll know who to blame.


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