Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Swooping and Canopy Control:
Canopy terminal velocity and the whip

 


gainer  (D 800)

Apr 26, 2011, 1:40 AM
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Canopy terminal velocity and the whip Can't Post

I have three questions that I hope someone on here can answer:
1) When I am spinning under canopy, how do I know when I have reached the canopy's terminal velocity, assume I am doing a hop&pop from altitude and i have no speed measuring device, so no paralog.

2&3) The second question is on the whip.The whip is that last 180/90 that you do at the end of the turn so 2) Why is it so important and 3) How does rotating fast help the canopy? Why can I not just slowly carve/ rotate on my whole turn?

Thanks for any answers


rem

Apr 26, 2011, 4:39 AM
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Re: [gainer] Canopy terminal velocity and the whip [In reply to] Can't Post

1) do competition.
when you are under 2s on the speed round, you know.
whit big canopy, 120-90, 270 is enough,
when your canopy was "vertical", you dont need a lot of time to be at full speed.
with smaller canopy, 70-90, you maybe need more , from 300 to 700...

2&3) when you turn slowly, your canopy was not in full dive, he become to recovery early.
if you "snap" heavy, with the harness input? your canopy dive more faster, and can have a shorter recovery arc after.

for hitting the doors, that's pretty good,
BUT!! that's not for safety!!


(This post was edited by rem on Apr 26, 2011, 4:45 AM)


frost  (D 25011)

Apr 26, 2011, 6:37 AM
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Re: [rem] Canopy terminal velocity and the whip [In reply to] Can't Post

you dont have a clue what you're talking about, do you?


rem

Apr 26, 2011, 6:51 AM
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Re: [frost] Canopy terminal velocity and the whip [In reply to] Can't Post

may i have misinterpreted the question?
you could probably do a better answer, so dont be afraid, and teach me.


(This post was edited by rem on Apr 26, 2011, 6:53 AM)


frost  (D 25011)

Apr 26, 2011, 7:08 AM
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Re: [rem] Canopy terminal velocity and the whip [In reply to] Can't Post

 
it's possible, but whether you have or have not, not much, if anything of what you've said makes sense or is true - forget the language barrier, i am talking about the concepts. I am wondering where and how you learned all of that?


frost  (D 25011)

Apr 26, 2011, 7:23 AM
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Re: [gainer] Canopy terminal velocity and the whip [In reply to] Can't Post

So i guess now i have to be constructive too? Or all the politically correct joy-joy nazis will get on my case? Laugh

Let me try.

1. First understand that "terminal velocity" for us is not a mathematical constant or an absolute measurement. We can increase or decrease it and it will also depend on the skills. Once we agree on that and given your constraints (no speed measuring devices)- my advice is to use the sound of the relative wind as it rushes over your helmet and ears. When you dont hear the wind increase, you know that you are at the maximum speed you are capable of generating at that moment. Then work on breaking that.

2. Think of the water in the toilet bowl going faster as it goes further down the spiral. Or the figure skater doing the rotation - she increases the speed by pulling arms and legs in tightly. It reduces the rotational inertia helping to spin faster. Or another thought - after you slowly built up the energy in the early stages of the turn, snapping (speeding up the final rotation) is like focusing all that energy in one point and channeling it to forward movement.

3. see above. You can, but it might be tricky to maintain all that energy through the turn if you dont continue to consistently build it.


superstu  (D License)

Apr 26, 2011, 7:56 AM
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Re: [gainer] Canopy terminal velocity and the whip [In reply to] Can't Post

1. What Mike "frost" said. listen to your canopy

2. "whipping" the canopy has less to do with turn rate and more to do with where you are positioned under the canopy when you come on heading and start your roll-out. ideally you want to end up as high above your canopy as possible when you start your roll out so that you can maximize the pendullum effect you inevitably create when you do your turn. The main issue however is 95% of the people out there either turn too quickly and aren't able to ever generate the power to really capitalize on that pendullum effect, or they never turn fast enough to get themselves far enough out away from the canopy to again capitalize on the pendullum effect.

In short a correct turn should be so smooth that you don't notice the person accelerating the turn and there really shouldn't be a noticable "whip". anything noticable like a "whip" distorts the canopy so much that your actually losing speed, or at the very least not gaining speed. accelerating throughout the turn is important however because if you don't and your start coming back underneith the canopy then you're decelerating and again not generating the power needed for a good swoop.

smooth = fast


DocPop  (C License)

Apr 26, 2011, 12:16 PM
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Re: [superstu] Canopy terminal velocity and the whip [In reply to] Can't Post

Stu -

Would I be right in saying that you are describing a turn with a decreasing radius and an increasing rate of change of heading?

That would seem to make sense to me as it would lead to an increasing vertical speed and a progressive movement out from under the canopy due to centrifugal force.



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