Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Swooping and Canopy Control:
Five chamber parabolic bracing

 


LetsGoOutside  (D License)

Apr 4, 2011, 5:25 PM
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Five chamber parabolic bracing Can't Post

Interesting. Thoughts?
http://www.nzaerosports.com/news/27/


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Apr 5, 2011, 12:52 AM
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Re: [LetsGoOutside] Five chamber parabolic bracing [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

Interesting like Z-bracing.


rhys  (D 95)

Apr 5, 2011, 1:09 AM
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In reply to:
Interesting like Z-bracing.

Interesting all right, except aerosports patented this time, before any body pokes their nose in there and copies it.

cough 'z bracing' cough


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Apr 5, 2011, 2:29 AM
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Re: [rhys] Five chamber parabolic bracing [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
The Z-Brace concept:
The Z-Brace goes a step beyond the cross-brace, by diagonally bracing two additional non-loded ribs, which results in five cells between line groups. The Z-Brace concept canopy displayed at PIA was a 35 cell canopy. The Z-Brace technology and canopy is not yet available on any released products.

Well, It sounds very similar.

Non of them is in production.


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Apr 5, 2011, 5:33 AM
Post #5 of 25 (1970 views)
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Re: [rhys] Five chamber parabolic bracing [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Interesting like Z-bracing.

Interesting all right, except aerosports patented this time, before any body pokes their nose in there and copies it.

cough 'z bracing' cough

conspiracy nonsense propagated by a few misinformed people.


pchapman  (D 1014)

Apr 5, 2011, 7:37 AM
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Re: [ianmdrennan] Five chamber parabolic bracing [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Interesting like Z-bracing.

Interesting all right, except aerosports patented this time, before any body pokes their nose in there and copies it.

cough 'z bracing' cough

conspiracy nonsense propagated by a few misinformed people.

I don't know this topic well, so can you clarify where the conspiracy is:

Are you saying that comparing it to Z bracing is wrong? But where's the conspiracy in simply being wrong, unless someone is secretly orchestrating a campaign against Icarus?

Or that Icarus got a patent for the purpose of protecting their design from copying? (Right or wrong, that's something a patent is used for.) But again, who is actually conspiring?

Or that Icarus is lying about their patent? (Oddly, didn't provide any country's patent number as proof. They claimed having a patent, not having one pending or otherwise in progress.)

Just asking, as I honestly don't know.


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Apr 5, 2011, 8:22 AM
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Re: [pchapman] Five chamber parabolic bracing [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Are you saying that comparing it to Z bracing is wrong?

Not at all, it seems they're quite comparable. They seem similar in what they're trying to achieve. Difference is in the implementation details it seems.

Quote:
unless someone is secretly orchestrating a campaign against Icarus

This is the conspiracy theory I mentioned. There is a very small group of people who believe PD runs around copying everything NZ aerosports does. They also believe that PD saw a super secret prototype and then 'came up' with the z-brace. It's tinfoil hat nonsense Smile. PD (like other manufacturers) is constantly in R&D. Sometimes ideas get shelved for years, and years because materials cant support them, sometimes they make it through R&D, sometimes they never make it through, and sometimes it's not cost effective. It's not unrealistic to expect different manufacturers to be working on (or have worked on) similar ideas.

Quote:
Or that Icarus got a patent for the purpose of protecting their design from copying? (Right or wrong, that's something a patent is used for.) But again, who is actually conspiring?

Or that Icarus is lying about their patent? (Oddly, didn't provide any country's patent number as proof. They claimed having a patent, not having one pending or otherwise in progress.)

No idea on this. If I were NZ aerosports, I'd patent it too. You have to protect your intellectual property. Same as PD did with x-bracing years ago.

Ian


(This post was edited by ianmdrennan on Apr 5, 2011, 8:28 AM)


jacketsdb23  (D 29802)

Apr 5, 2011, 11:32 AM
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I can't imagine the market is really there for anything more expensive than current HP canopies. It seems that this design would be much more labor intensive = more $.

I certainly look forward to the next advance in HP technology though. R&D must be fun at these companies.


LetsGoOutside  (D License)

Apr 5, 2011, 11:37 AM
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Re: [LetsGoOutside] Five chamber parabolic bracing [In reply to] Can't Post

Attached pics from their Facebook page. One is of a JVX modded with a five-chamber center cell. The other is the "Sunshine", the concept canopy in question.

Really resembles a paraglider once it's that divided up. Probably flights great, but opens like a bomb. My theory, anyway.
Attachments: jvx_mod.jpg (22.6 KB)
  sunshine.jpg (24.6 KB)


craigbey  (C 31991)

Apr 5, 2011, 5:42 PM
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Re: [LetsGoOutside] Five chamber parabolic bracing [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Of course, it might turn out that its just more hassle. It could be a pain in the arse to debug, or it might not work at all! Or it could be brilliant!

Thanks for posting the link and pics. Cool stuff.


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
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Apr 5, 2011, 5:44 PM
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Re: [craigbey] Five chamber parabolic bracing [In reply to] Can't Post

I gotta throw out a kudo's to NZ Aerosports, btw.

I've absolutely LOVED their videos on the Summer Of Love stuff - i find it fascinating, and rare, to see that kind of R&D footage.

Blues,
Ian


Martini  (D 23756)

Apr 5, 2011, 6:49 PM
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Re: [LetsGoOutside] Five chamber parabolic bracing [In reply to] Can't Post

Why do you think it will open like a bomb?


rhys  (D 95)

Apr 6, 2011, 3:18 AM
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In reply to:
Why do you think it will open like a bomb?

Because he is thinking in the past and not the future.


FB1609  (C 1409)

Apr 6, 2011, 11:53 AM
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Re: [rhys] Five chamber parabolic bracing [In reply to] Can't Post

Interesting, canopies will evolve a lot in the next few years I think. Jalbert would be pretty impressed by today's canopies performance, still I'm pretty impressed with Jalbert's original brilliant design!

EDIT: That sunshine looks pretty cool, be great to have even less lines


(This post was edited by FB1609 on Apr 6, 2011, 11:57 AM)


LetsGoOutside  (D License)

Apr 6, 2011, 1:02 PM
Post #15 of 25 (1579 views)
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Re: [rhys] Five chamber parabolic bracing [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Why do you think it will open like a bomb?

Because he is thinking in the past and not the future.

Actually it's because I'm thinking of how easily somewhat similarly constructed paragliders inflate. The closed nose would obviously inhibit openings relative to PGs, but more material/guts means less space to inflate. Less space inflates more quickly. Just my experience with PGs (which have as many cells and X-bracing).

Just a theory on the design as-is. Openings are a critical part of any canopy that gets on the market which I of course assume NZ Aerosports would address.


(This post was edited by LetsGoOutside on Apr 6, 2011, 1:03 PM)


rhys  (D 95)

Apr 6, 2011, 1:29 PM
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Re: [LetsGoOutside] Five chamber parabolic bracing [In reply to] Can't Post

lets just wait and see...

this is not a paraglider it is a parachute, opening is an essential aspect of a parachute design and aerosports have not let us down in the past so no need to assume they will with this design.

who knows, but them.


danielcroft  (D 31103)

Apr 6, 2011, 6:48 PM
Post #17 of 25 (1518 views)
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Re: [ianmdrennan] Five chamber parabolic bracing [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I gotta throw out a kudo's to NZ Aerosports, btw.

I've absolutely LOVED their videos on the Summer Of Love stuff - i find it fascinating, and rare, to see that kind of R&D footage.

Blues,
Ian
I really wish that PD and other canopy manufacturers would do this too. Obviously they don't want to give away too much (although, having said that, I don't really know what could be gained at the stage they're flying prototypes) but it really was amazing to watch. Especially when they were having crazy behavior. I'm personally used to flying pretty docile canopies so seeing some of the craziness the test pilots had to put up with was eye-opening. Thanks guys!


mchamp  (D 32129)

Apr 7, 2011, 9:20 AM
Post #18 of 25 (1440 views)
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Re: [danielcroft] Five chamber parabolic bracing [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I gotta throw out a kudo's to NZ Aerosports, btw.

I've absolutely LOVED their videos on the Summer Of Love stuff - i find it fascinating, and rare, to see that kind of R&D footage.

Blues,
Ian
I really wish that PD and other canopy manufacturers would do this too. Obviously they don't want to give away too much (although, having said that, I don't really know what could be gained at the stage they're flying prototypes) but it really was amazing to watch. Especially when they were having crazy behavior. I'm personally used to flying pretty docile canopies so seeing some of the craziness the test pilots had to put up with was eye-opening. Thanks guys!

Not quite the same, but they do have the office!
http://www.youtube.com/...Qo&feature=feedu


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Apr 7, 2011, 9:49 AM
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Re: [mchamp] Five chamber parabolic bracing [In reply to] Can't Post

awesome Smile


danielcroft  (D 31103)

Apr 7, 2011, 1:08 PM
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Re: [mchamp] Five chamber parabolic bracing [In reply to] Can't Post

PD post some great videos, like the CP meet videos they've done and this one is great. They also have posted several interesting instructional/learning videos on line type with John LeBlanc himself (who is also awesome). I'm more talking about me having an interest in seeing something (namely canopy R&D) that is rarely seen outside the companies who make canopies and the people who get to fly them.

Props to PD for being awesome with videos and with their blog, factory team and instructional stuff but I'd love to see some of their test flights.


Rigless

Apr 7, 2011, 5:05 PM
Post #21 of 25 (1323 views)
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Re: [danielcroft] Five chamber parabolic bracing [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Props to PD for being awesome with videos and with their blog, factory team and instructional stuff but I'd love to see some of their test flights.

You probably won't, it's PD, no one can have their "secrets" Laugh


AggieDave  (D License)

Apr 7, 2011, 7:35 PM
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Re: [danielcroft] Five chamber parabolic bracing [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I'd love to see some of their test flights.

You can't see them. The jumps are done wearing all black, with black rigs, jumping black canopies out of black helicopters on moonless nights. That's how Ian really broke his leg last year.


gaz511  (D 107859)

Apr 18, 2011, 2:32 PM
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Re: [LetsGoOutside] Five chamber parabolic bracing [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

I reckon with the production cost and extra pack volume such a canopy would take a long time to become accepted, I think thats why Z bracing didn't take off before. I wonder how ridged such a canopy would be? I.e seriously high riser pressure, and perhaps a short recovery arc due to the extra lift etc etc. Clearly thats something they are working on and on the flip side there are advantages too to have such a ridged wing with less lines. It's exciting to see just how HP canopies are evolving. I hope we get more and more swoopers which will give HP canopies a bigger market share and hopefully companies will spend more on R&D and possibly reduce the cost as they will sell more of them.


yoink

Apr 18, 2011, 4:10 PM
Post #24 of 25 (1035 views)
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Re: [gaz511] Five chamber parabolic bracing [In reply to] Can't Post

I want to see a GL canopy with it. More lift for the same surface area? Cool


polarbear  (D 25673)

Apr 18, 2011, 4:34 PM
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Re: [AggieDave] Five chamber parabolic bracing [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
You can't see them. The jumps are done wearing all black, with black rigs, jumping black canopies out of black helicopters on moonless nights. That's how Ian really broke his leg last year.

They generally fly in whisper mode, too.



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