Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Swooping and Canopy Control:
riser turns and recovery arc question

 


e.a.hernandez  (B 34580)

Mar 29, 2011, 4:42 PM
Post #1 of 10 (1674 views)
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riser turns and recovery arc question Can't Post

Hi,

I have been discussing with my instructors things I can try up high (>2000) to familirize myself more with my pilot 168. Among those is double front risers...and front riser turns. Specifically, knowing the canopy recovery arc. I find it hard to see how much altitude I have lost on a front riser turn by just looking at the altimeter (analog). I have noticed that when I pay attention to how the harness feels (how hard it is pulling) I can sort of see when I am recovering from the turn. Bottom line is... any tips on how you really go about knowing your canopy recovery arc???

Thanks








DocPop  (C License)

Mar 29, 2011, 6:14 PM
Post #5 of 10 (1619 views)
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Re: [e.a.hernandez] riser turns and recovery arc question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Hi,

I have been discussing with my instructors things I can try up high (>2000) to familirize myself more with my pilot 168. Among those is double front risers...and front riser turns. Specifically, knowing the canopy recovery arc. I find it hard to see how much altitude I have lost on a front riser turn by just looking at the altimeter (analog). I have noticed that when I pay attention to how the harness feels (how hard it is pulling) I can sort of see when I am recovering from the turn. Bottom line is... any tips on how you really go about knowing your canopy recovery arc???

Thanks

My opinion...

You're really going to need a digital alti to measure this accurately. And if you're thinking of bringing it down near the ground you will want to be as accurate as possible!

I am going to assume from what you said that you can pull the risers down without the canopy bucking.

You can start by measuring altitude loss from initiation to when you feel yourself plane out with double fronts. Maybe hold the fronts for a 3-count and note the start altitude and plane out altitude. The difference is total altitude lost in that maneuver.

This does not tell you the recovery arc specifically (ie. the altitude lost from the last input to plane out) but it does give you an idea of the total altitude from initiation to plane out which you need to know before you bring it down low. Doing it near the ground is the best way to develop the sight picture to know when to release the fronts, but PLEASE don't do this without talking to at least an instructor and preferably a canopy coach. I am neither and this is just my opinion.

The next step is to find out (up high) the maximum and minimum altitudes you can lose in a given turn, say a 90. To do this you're going to want to do a few really slow carving ones for max altitude loss and then some snappy whips round for min altitude loss. This then gives you the performance envelope for your canopy, at your loading and your turn technique. The sight picture you learn from the double fronts practice will be vital for knowing when things are wrong (ie. you're low) when you start putting more energy into the system by doing turns.

Other things you can experiment with up high are bail-outs and starting the dives from full flight or in various amounts of brakes.

Again - please don't do anything near the ground without expert local advice. I hope it gave you some ideas.


e.a.hernandez  (B 34580)

Mar 30, 2011, 4:55 AM
Post #6 of 10 (1512 views)
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Re: [DocPop] riser turns and recovery arc question [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the feedback. Seems like there is a lot to do up there high to get to know the canopy.


FreeFlyer2100  (D 30975)

Mar 31, 2011, 10:45 AM
Post #7 of 10 (1310 views)
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Re: [e.a.hernandez] riser turns and recovery arc question [In reply to] Can't Post

Something else you can do is go to Skydive Sebastian and ask for Ballistic Bob. He teaches proximity flying under canopy and can really show you lots of exercises to do under canopy. He has put together an entire training program and will be in the air next to you so you can see what these controls do relative with another canopy. It is one thing to see how much altitude you lose on an altimeter but to see the difference compare to another canopy gives a better idea of altitude lost or gained from each control. Good for you to work on canopy control so early and hope you stick with it.

Todd


danielcroft  (D 31103)

Mar 31, 2011, 9:13 PM
Post #8 of 10 (1249 views)
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Re: [DocPop] riser turns and recovery arc question [In reply to] Can't Post

To follow on a little from what DocPop said, Pilots are known to have a pretty positive recovery arc meaning that you could actually gain altitude when you release your risers (depending on how you release them of course) so it's going to be really helpful if you do get a digital altimeter. Also, I'd actually suggest doing all exercises on double fronts rather than 90s but I'm the same as DocPop, not an instructor or a canopy coach so seek experienced advice.

I'd also suggest finding someone who knows what they're doing to do a clear and pull with so you can have a point of reference when trying some of this stuff out.

At some point, you're going to need to decide to bring it down low, it'd be worthwhile cornering an experienced canopy pilot and asking their advice on how to do this. Your canopy will behave differently up high as opposed to down low, having an experienced person watch you is going to be very helpful.


Skydivesg  (D 10938)

Apr 3, 2011, 10:20 AM
Post #9 of 10 (1101 views)
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Re: [e.a.hernandez] riser turns and recovery arc question [In reply to] Can't Post

If you really want to become a good canopy pilot nothing beats going to a canopy course conducted by a reputable coach. Many people don't want to make the effort or spend the money which is a real shame.

It is possible to get good coaching from local people depending on where you're from or where you jump.

Keep in mind that just because someone is an amazing canopy pilot doesn't mean they have the skills to impart that information to others. And remember some of the best canopy coaches are not USPA rated instructors.

I've attended many courses and seminars over the years the last one was just over a year ago.

If you want to stay relevant - never stop learning.


Pulse  (D 16387)

Apr 13, 2011, 9:01 PM
Post #10 of 10 (876 views)
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Re: [e.a.hernandez] riser turns and recovery arc question [In reply to] Can't Post

Quite simply, jump the same canopy A LOT. For a number of years.

Fly with other people under canopy. You don't have to be right next to them right away. Use the altimeter as 'rough' information. But use your visual cues for fine tuning.



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