Mar 11, 2011, 6:08 AM
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Re: [skydiverek] Venom from PF is here!
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What a suit and probably what a leap forward in WS performance! I also like Phoenix-Fly going the safe way both with new features and advice:
"Due to the large wing surface area the VENOM is not suitable for low experience pilots. We recommend a MINIMUM of 180 to 250 wingsuit jumps before trying the VENOM.
The increased wingsize doesnt allow for the placement of a special B.A.S.E. leg pouch, as the wing would cover the location during deployment. Though the BOC is accesable with relative ease, we urge to account for the larger burble and minor delays in deployment with this type/size wingsuit when used in a B.A.S.E. enviroment. Adjusting your deployment altitude upward is high recommended."
Mar 11, 2011, 8:18 AM
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Re: [gzimmermann] Venom from PF is here!
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Actually just updated the page with some more pictures of the sleeve, with cutaway and the final stretching sleeve that robi was experimenting with the past year. Works like a charm.
Mar 12, 2011, 9:24 AM
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Re: [mccordia] Venom from PF is here!
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Actually just updated the page with some more pictures of the sleeve, with cutaway and the final stretching sleeve that robi was experimenting with the past year. Works like a charm.
Love the thinking behind the stretchy sleeve, keeps the wing profile shape like the designer wants it to be and also allows quick riser grab functionality. What's the optional foam insert, Jarno?
Mar 13, 2011, 3:11 AM
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Re: [skydiverek] Venom from PF is here!
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Past saturday I had 2 test jumps on Venom (demo-wingsuit) in skydive-environment. Great wingsuit! In comparison to X-Bird, the biggest difference was for me in huge stability during the flights. On X-Bird I had in past time lot of instabilitis in horizontal plane. On Venom - stable body position from first jump! Great work, Robi & Jarno!
A week ago I have mine, and had never had a wingsuit fabric surround me, and adaptation has been very good, is a fantastic wingsuit! I only fly the Venom, I do not want another.
Mar 13, 2011, 7:10 PM
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Re: [mccordia] Venom from PF is here!
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Quote:
Actually just updated the page with some more pictures of the sleeve, with cutaway and the final stretching sleeve that robi was experimenting with the past year. Works like a charm.
I am curious if this is the same basic thing as the Tonysuit safety sleeve.
(This post was edited by Skwrl on Mar 13, 2011, 7:10 PM)
In terms of reaching risers its a system that has the same goal, however in construction/function it works quite different and has a normal/tighter sleeve during flight as the basis.
The sleeve stretches in parts, whereas the other system you mention is a wide sleeve in setup. This stretching sleeve had now been used in base for almost a year now on several PF prototypes, with good results.
Due to it needing some degree of lifting legs for full reach (which is not possible on per example a heavily spinning reserve or base canopy) there is still a normal cutaway for emergencies.
DSE (D 29060)
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Mar 14, 2011, 10:57 AM
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Actually just updated the page with some more pictures of the sleeve, with cutaway and the final stretching sleeve that robi was experimenting with the past year. Works like a charm.
I am curious if this is the same basic thing as the Tonysuit safety sleeve.
The safety sleeve TS has now (post seeing the PF sleeve at PIA) or the one TS had before PIA?
i am wondering does pf have to pay an amount to tony now everytime they put on the escape sleeve to a suit they sell? like back in the days everybody paid bill booth for being allowed to use the 3 ring system on their rigs? ;-)
Mar 14, 2011, 11:50 AM
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Re: [Sam_Adams] Venom from PF is here!
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i am wondering does pf have to pay an amount to tony now everytime they put on the escape sleeve to a suit they sell?
Actually the PF prodigy was the first suit that allowed reaching the risers. Tony didnt invent that.
The IDEA of reaching risers was pioneered by Robert. The method in which its done is different for Tony and the Venom uses another method of the 'reach risers' concept that (again) ROBERT HIMSELF first made real.
Regarding the Venom, Its quite a difference from the setup tony has a wide sleeve vs stretching geometry. Plus this also has a cutaway for reasons others are not willing to discuss. Yet the change in setup, mimicking what Roberts doing shows the initial setup is (as many practical cases show) far from perfect, otherwise there wouldnt be a need to copy. But in light of that statement fun to see that the latest pictures of the Apache show Tony copied Robi's setup with the stretching parts. Including a similar cut of the stretching fabric. The eyeballing Matt gerdes did on the prototype Yuri flew several months back, and the pix Tony took of the suit at the PIA definately where used properly Which reminds me of a flock and dock 6 situation with a V3 and Stealth3, and sudden change in inlet design 2 months later for 'the other company'.
Should I mail Robi's bank account for royalties as well? Not a single idea is new, but the way in which things are executed definately vary a lot. As well as the experience levels to which the suits are sold.
Come on, does this childish bitching never end. And why only against PF? Where where you guys when the PF ram-air inlets that Robi designed where showing up on other suits. And where where you when TS copied the zipper setup from the S-Fly? And where where you guys condemning Birdman for copying the basic setup of the suit DeGayardon made?
Nice Blade you're flying there....real curious who you think designed that one
Mar 14, 2011, 11:57 AM
Post #18 of 70
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Re: [Sam_Adams] Venom from PF is here!
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i am wondering does pf have to pay an amount to tony now everytime they put on the escape sleeve to a suit they sell? like back in the days everybody paid bill booth for being allowed to use the 3 ring system on their rigs? ;-)
Most likely it the same amount every wingsuit maker pays Patrick de Gayardon.....
Mar 14, 2011, 12:21 PM
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Re: [mccordia] Venom from PF is here!
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...and: Let us not forget one important thing here please. The cost of material for a wingsuit are rather high. Not to mention the cost for labour, the suits are made to order, measurement. Add the research effort (definitely to be calculated as leisure here, probably) into the calculation and come to USD 1000-1500? I am paying the same for 2 cotton business suits, standard size made in hundred thousands. Personally: I appreciate the fact that competition is here and the wish/need to convert an idealistic business model into a more profitable mass business has not happened yet...
Actually just updated the page with some more pictures of the sleeve, with cutaway and the final stretching sleeve that robi was experimenting with the past year. Works like a charm.
I am curious if this is the same basic thing as the Tonysuit safety sleeve.
The safety sleeve TS has now (post seeing the PF sleeve at PIA) or the one TS had before PIA?
u mean kind of like the XEROX-bird, err, APACHE, that tony came out with, oh wait, must have been WAY before PIA, because robi copied it!? you''re indian, you should know such stuff!
Mar 14, 2011, 12:50 PM
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Re: [Tony-tonysuits] Venom from PF is here!
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Quote..and the pix Tony took of the suit at the PIA definately where used properly
that is a lie jarno, I did not take pix of any of your companys suit,.. not then.. not ever,
Do not tell lies jarno
Tony didn't take any pics of the Venom when he looked at the suit standing in front of me at PIA. But he did eye it up pretty good.
We are getting incredible suits with the most range in performance from various manufacturers. If it wasn't for that competition, there would never have been the push to go beyond a souped up classic.
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