Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Swooping and Canopy Control:
Do Velocities "fly big"?

 

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DocPop  (C License)

Mar 2, 2011, 6:30 AM
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Do Velocities "fly big"? Can't Post

I have heard this said before and I was wondering:

(a) if it's really true, and
(b) why this might be true as they have more or less the same aspect ratio (is the Velo less elliptical?).

For example, if the same person flew a Katana 120 and a Velocity 120, would they really feel like the Katana was a more responsive canopy?


Fab  (C License)

Mar 2, 2011, 7:08 AM
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Re: [DocPop] Do Velocities "fly big"? [In reply to] Can't Post

I have a katana 135 and demoed a velo 120, 111 and 103.

I made one jump on the velo 120 and handed it back to the pd-dude. Way too big, slow, non responsive enough. It felt like a boat. so yes...they do fly a little big so to say. I now have a velo 103..haven't made a lot of jumps on it yet but kinda miss my katana a little bit Tongue...

I don't think they have the same aspect ratio. The velo has a smaller AR as far as i know.


(This post was edited by Fab on Mar 2, 2011, 7:11 AM)


DocPop  (C License)

Mar 2, 2011, 7:16 AM
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Re: [Fab] Do Velocities "fly big"? [In reply to] Can't Post

That's interesting.

FYI, from the PD website, aspect ratios are as follows:

Katana 120 2.74:1
Velocity 120 2.71:1
Stiletto 120 2.68:1

I am sure that someone will weigh in to say that the Velo likes to be loaded and that's a fair comment, but I was really looking for a theoretical comparison between same-size canopies.


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Mar 2, 2011, 7:32 AM
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Re: [DocPop] Do Velocities "fly big"? [In reply to] Can't Post

I've jumped Velocity 103 and Katana 107 on the same day. They were close.


stayhigh  (F 111)

Mar 2, 2011, 7:41 AM
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Re: [DocPop] Do Velocities "fly big"? [In reply to] Can't Post

What do you mean by responsive????
If you are talking about turn rate, then the stilleto and diablo will be up there.

I think that people think that it flys big due to higher riser pressure.

Riser prrssure on velo 120 would be insane.


BETO74  (D License)

Mar 2, 2011, 8:49 AM
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Re: [DocPop] Do Velocities "fly big"? [In reply to] Can't Post

I had jumps Katanas 120/ 107 / 98 sizes the Katana 98 was too ground hungry I was loading it somewhere in the 2:0 Now I fly a velo 96 and I can only compare it with the Katana 107. The velo has a better glide ratio front risers feel heavier than the Katana so yes I can say Velo "flies big" compared to the Katana in my opinion


TheCaptain  (D License)

Mar 2, 2011, 9:53 AM
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Re: [DocPop] Do Velocities "fly big"? [In reply to] Can't Post

I sure hope your are not looking at buying a Velocity with 200 jumps.


DocPop  (C License)

Mar 2, 2011, 9:59 AM
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Re: [TheCaptain] Do Velocities "fly big"? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I sure hope your are not looking at buying a Velocity with 200 jumps.

Haha - no, Sir!

It was just a question asked out of curiosity. The mind wanders during the Midwest winter!


crazydiver  (D 28022)

Mar 2, 2011, 10:31 AM
Post #9 of 62 (2088 views)
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Re: [DocPop] Do Velocities "fly big"? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I have heard this said before and I was wondering:

(a) if it's really true, and
(b) why this might be true as they have more or less the same aspect ratio (is the Velo less elliptical?).

For example, if the same person flew a Katana 120 and a Velocity 120, would they really feel like the Katana was a more responsive canopy?

Other than measuring methods changing between manufacturers, "feeling like it flies big" is really a subjective matter. Responsiveness isn't what I'd measure it by. I would be saying that based on how the canopy feels above my head compared to similar sized canopies. For example, 6 years ago, I started jumping velocities after jumping a crossfire 2 of a similar size. In my observation, the velocity had steeper glide, but had WAY more lift, especially at the bottom end of the flare. I also found that the velocity, although being pretty steep in its glide, could hang with just about any other canopy out there. In that respect, they fly big.


Fast  (D 28237)

Mar 2, 2011, 10:43 AM
Post #10 of 62 (2083 views)
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Re: [DocPop] Do Velocities "fly big"? [In reply to] Can't Post

I have over 1000 jumps on my Velo 103. I have 20-30 jumps over various periods on a friends Katana 107. The difference to me is that when I'm flying the Velocity it feels like a solid wing and the Katana feels mushy. I wouldn't say that a velocity "fly's big" though. It's similarly responsive and certainly aggressive. Saying the katana feels mushy is a subjective feeling kind of thing. It's just how it "feels" to me when I'm flying it and the same can be said about my XF2 139


AggieDave  (D License)

Mar 2, 2011, 3:57 PM
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Re: [DocPop] Do Velocities "fly big"? [In reply to] Can't Post

If by "fly big" you mean "scream out of the sky when you release the brakes" and "going into near freefall speeds when you yoink a riser" then yes, they "fly big."

What gets people is how deep the range and bottom end of the canopy is, you can make them fly surprisingly slow. Much more than a lot of other canopies, especially when compared to the Katana.


wildcard451  (D License)

Mar 3, 2011, 7:09 AM
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Re: [Fast] Do Velocities "fly big"? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
...The difference to me is that when I'm flying the Velocity it feels like a solid wing and the Katana feels mushy...

I probably had about 100 katana jumps and near 300 on my velo. I can definitely agree with the sentiment of a more rigid wing, as x-braced is designed to be. Going back to make some video jumps on the katana when I still have it in a second rig, definitely felt mushy.

Also, agree with the ability to hang in there. Great performance in deep brakes without getting too squishy.

But hell, I'm still a newb with the more advanced WL (2.2+)


DocPop  (C License)

Mar 3, 2011, 7:57 AM
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Re: Do Velocities "fly big"? [In reply to] Can't Post

Some interesting answers. I don't really know what I meant by "flies big" but that was the terminology I heard.

To summarize what has been written here, it sounds like the Velocity is very stable esp. at low speeds, slightly less twitchy (or responsive) and with more bottom end flare than a comparably-sized Katana..

....BUT....

it loses an incredible amount of altitude in a turn.


wildcard451  (D License)

Mar 3, 2011, 8:30 AM
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Re: [DocPop] Do Velocities "fly big"? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
....BUT....

it loses an incredible amount of altitude in a turn.

If you want it to. It can be flat turned, braked landing'd quite easily when flown in a conservative manner. But it does fall out of the sky in full flight and drops like a falling rock in an agressive turn.


DocPop  (C License)

Mar 3, 2011, 8:36 AM
Post #15 of 62 (1815 views)
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Re: [wildcard451] Do Velocities "fly big"? [In reply to] Can't Post

I am looking forward to finding out this season. I have a intentional cutaway rig I can use and an old Velo 90 which the owner is happy for me to chop. Happy days!


matt002

Mar 3, 2011, 12:02 PM
Post #16 of 62 (1759 views)
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Re: [DocPop] Do Velocities "fly big"? [In reply to] Can't Post

Exiting a plane with a canopy you don't have the skills or experience to land safely thus Having to cutaway is pretty stupid, and probably carries a higher risk than just landing said canopy.
Especially as flying the canopy around in the big wide open sky with no ground reference is pretty pointless.
If you follow a reasonably sensible progression you will fly and land a velocity for the first time and wonder what the big deal was, that's how I felt the first time I flew one.
Why not just wait until you have the experience, skills and confidence to fly and land a velo 90?


(This post was edited by matt002 on Mar 3, 2011, 12:06 PM)


DocPop  (C License)

Mar 3, 2011, 12:35 PM
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Re: [matt002] Do Velocities "fly big"? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Why not just wait until you have the experience, skills and confidence to fly and land a velo 90?

Well, honestly, because I want to fly it. I also want to have a cutaway. I think there are some good learning opportunities from this jump.

I realize that this is more risky than a regular skydive, but so are many skydiving activities (eg. wingsuiting, camera flying, freeflying, swooping).

It will be planned and executed with the S&TA and several instructors and, I am sure you will agree, this is better than the uncontrolled downsizing that everyone rails against here.


matt002

Mar 3, 2011, 1:15 PM
Post #18 of 62 (1721 views)
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Re: [DocPop] Do Velocities "fly big"? [In reply to] Can't Post

Im not a member of the canopy police, because you want to is a valid reason.
But it would be smart to do your cutaway on a canopy you are competent to land, then you have more options and are not forcing your self to have to cutaway.
For example you spin up or just get carried away flying and find yourself too low to cutaway, or find yourself in traffic or many other situations.
If you really can't wait till your competent to fly a velocity then just man the fuck up and jump one, don't think that this is a better idea just because it involves a cutaway.


virgin-burner

Mar 3, 2011, 1:35 PM
Post #19 of 62 (1712 views)
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Re: [matt002] Do Velocities "fly big"? [In reply to] Can't Post

docpop can do anything; just because he is AWESOME! Unimpressed


Fab  (C License)

Mar 3, 2011, 1:40 PM
Post #20 of 62 (1712 views)
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Re: [DocPop] Do Velocities "fly big"? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I sure hope your are not looking at buying a Velocity with 200 jumps.

Haha - no, Sir!

It was just a question asked out of curiosity. The mind wanders during the Midwest winter!


DocPop  (C License)

Mar 3, 2011, 1:48 PM
Post #21 of 62 (1699 views)
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Re: [Fab] Do Velocities "fly big"? [In reply to] Can't Post

I stand by that. I have no intention of buying or landing a Velocity.


virgin-burner

Mar 3, 2011, 2:25 PM
Post #22 of 62 (1686 views)
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Re: [DocPop] Do Velocities "fly big"? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I stand by that. I have no intention of buying or landing a Velocity.

so u're just lending or renting it!?


DocPop  (C License)

Mar 3, 2011, 2:27 PM
Post #23 of 62 (1680 views)
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Re: [virgin-burner] Do Velocities "fly big"? [In reply to] Can't Post

I am borrowing it just for this jump.


virgin-burner

Mar 3, 2011, 2:49 PM
Post #24 of 62 (1668 views)
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Re: [DocPop] Do Velocities "fly big"? [In reply to] Can't Post

k...

and you come to this forum to ask about it, why!?


DocPop  (C License)

Mar 3, 2011, 3:08 PM
Post #25 of 62 (1660 views)
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Re: [virgin-burner] Do Velocities "fly big"? [In reply to] Can't Post

Because this is the forum for discussing canopy topics.

Has that upset you in some way?


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