Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Swooping and Canopy Control:
-Branched Castrodavid's discussion on swooping

 

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castrodavidd  (C 33299)

Feb 8, 2011, 8:18 AM
Post #1 of 110 (2470 views)
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     -Branched Castrodavid's discussion on swooping  

Quote:
At what point in someones life do they become so great, that they trully believe they have a responsibility to make decisions on what is safe or unsafe for someone else.

well lord swoopious, can you tell us what you were gonna jump and your wingloading?


Thats the point its really none of your bussines. Untill someone starts to become dangerous to himself or others Under Canopy, who is anyone to judge what they can and can not jump.


(This post was edited by ianmdrennan on Feb 8, 2011, 7:03 PM)


virgin-burner

Feb 8, 2011, 8:44 AM
Post #2 of 110 (2438 views)
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     Re: [castrodavidd] "Downfall" Hitler parody on Swooping [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Quote:
At what point in someones life do they become so great, that they trully believe they have a responsibility to make decisions on what is safe or unsafe for someone else.

well lord swoopious, can you tell us what you were gonna jump and your wingloading?


Thats the point its really none of your bussines. Untill someone starts to become dangerous to himself or others Under Canopy, who is anyone to judge what they can and can not jump.

well, they told you you couldnt, and you couldnt; so they can because they can!? Laugh


Floflo

Feb 8, 2011, 8:55 AM
Post #3 of 110 (2433 views)
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     Re: [castrodavidd] "Downfall" Hitler parody on Swooping [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Untill someone starts to become dangerous to himself or others Under Canopy, who is anyone to judge what they can and can not jump.

If I follow your logic, a student could use a Velocity 79 for his first jump ('cause he has seen it's cool on Youtube), as he has not proven he's not safe under it yet?
Nice thinking.

Oh, I saw you listed "Swooping" in your profiles disciplines, with 150 jumps. That says a lot.


jtiflyer  (D 27430)

Feb 8, 2011, 9:20 AM
Post #4 of 110 (2419 views)
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     Re: [Floflo] "Downfall" Hitler parody on Swooping [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
Untill someone starts to become dangerous to himself or others Under Canopy, who is anyone to judge what they can and can not jump.

If I follow your logic, a student could use a Velocity 79 for his first jump ('cause he has seen it's cool on Youtube), as he has not proven he's not safe under it yet?
Nice thinking.

Oh, I saw you listed "Swooping" in your profiles disciplines, with 150 jumps. That says a lot.

I noticed that also. Was it the heatwave 190 that this dropzone from jumping? If not what canopy was if I may be so bold


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Feb 8, 2011, 9:23 AM
Post #5 of 110 (2414 views)
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     Re: [castrodavidd] "Downfall" Hitler parody on Swooping [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Thats the point its really none of your bussines. Untill someone starts to become dangerous to himself or others Under Canopy, who is anyone to judge what they can and can not jump.

you do realize that you are being sympathetic to Hitler?Tongue

as well as being the stereotype of the dufus of all these types of vids - verbatim

good luck


Floflo

Feb 8, 2011, 9:31 AM
Post #6 of 110 (2410 views)
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     Re: [rehmwa] "Downfall" Hitler parody on Swooping [In reply to]  

In reply to:
you do realize that you are being sympathetic to Hitler?Tongue

LaughLaughLaugh

In reply to:
as well as being the stereotype of the dufus of all these types of vids - verbatim

good luck

Pirate


castrodavidd  (C 33299)

Feb 8, 2011, 10:18 AM
Post #7 of 110 (2400 views)
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     Re: [rehmwa] "Downfall" Hitler parody on Swooping [In reply to]  

Quote:
you do realize that you are being sympathetic to Hitler?

as well as being the stereotype of the dufus of all these types of vids - verbatim

good luck

Yep, but you guys are being the canopy Nazis.


Decodiver  (D License)

Feb 8, 2011, 10:23 AM
Post #8 of 110 (2395 views)
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     Re: [castrodavidd] "Downfall" Hitler parody on Swooping [In reply to]  

Quote:
Untill someone starts to become dangerous to himself or others Under Canopy, who is anyone to judge what they can and can not jump.

When someone starts to become dangerous it is already too late.........it is at that point exactly where they could kill some poor innocent skydiver who was doing everything by the book with kids etc.........


virgin-burner

Feb 8, 2011, 10:23 AM
Post #9 of 110 (2395 views)
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     Re: [castrodavidd] "Downfall" Hitler parody on Swooping [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Quote:
you do realize that you are being sympathetic to Hitler?

as well as being the stereotype of the dufus of all these types of vids - verbatim

good luck

Yep, but you guys are being the canopy Nazis.

i think it's time to get the popcorn out..


wildcard451  (D License)

Feb 8, 2011, 10:27 AM
Post #10 of 110 (2389 views)
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     Re: [castrodavidd] "Downfall" Hitler parody on Swooping [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Quote:
you do realize that you are being sympathetic to Hitler?

as well as being the stereotype of the dufus of all these types of vids - verbatim

good luck

Yep, but you guys are being the canopy Nazis.

Mad Skillllllz!!1!!shiftone


davelepka  (D 21448)

Feb 8, 2011, 11:24 AM
Post #11 of 110 (2370 views)
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     Re: [castrodavidd] "Downfall" Hitler parody on Swooping [In reply to]  

Quote:
who is anyone to judge what they can and can not jump

The guy who owns the DZ, or the guy the DZO puts in charge of the DZ. It's their sandbox, they make the rules.

That said, the fact that they would not let you jump a canopy sight-unseen should be a message to you. No they did not check your canopy progression, or evern give you a chance and that shouldn't be your main gripe, that should be your main indicator that you're making a mistake.

So you went to this new DZ looking for canopy coaching? I'm going to guess you didn't go to a backwoods old-shcool DZ where everyone still does style and accuracy, but you went to a busy, modern DZ where they see a wide range of jumpers, abilities and wing loadings. With that in mind, they wouldn't even give you a chance.

So if you want to jump a big-boy canopy, start acting like a big boy and share the model and WL of canopy you're wanting to jump. I have no problem outlining any of the activities I intend to do on a skydive because I can defend my actions to the point that nobody could argue that I am aware of the risks, and have taken steps to mitigate them.

So for the third (or fourth) time, what is it that you think you're ready for and some DZO does not. I'd even like to know what DZ this was, and who it was that denied you permission to jump.


crazydiver  (D 28022)

Feb 8, 2011, 11:37 AM
Post #12 of 110 (2365 views)
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     Re: [castrodavidd] "Downfall" Hitler parody on Swooping [In reply to]  

Looks like this hitler parody was a biography about castrodavidd.


frost  (D 25011)

Feb 8, 2011, 12:22 PM
Post #13 of 110 (2349 views)
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     Re: [crazydiver] "Downfall" Hitler parody on Swooping [In reply to]  

Him and dozens if not hundreds of others like him.

Having said that, who am I to hold them back?? Not to mention that the SoFPiDaRF page has been somewhat empty without more brave new pilots and their contributions.

Castro, do you feel you have been mistreated by the DZ personnel that did not allow you to jump that wing? Do you feel that nobody wants to listen to you or take you seriously? Are people holding you back? Then you should join the School of Fast Progress in Downsizing and Radical Flying! Why? Because you are a grown ass man and can make your own decisions!

SoFPiDaRF is the ultimate modern day canopy piloting school comprised of like-minded individuals, who will NOT hold you back like the anchors of progress here on dz.com. SoFPiDaRF instructors will tell you EXACTLY what you want to hear. They will encourage you to push the limits, assist you in finding that ultimate edge of canopy performance and help you step over it, gently guiding you towards the light of canopy greatness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2ZodAzECeU


castrodavidd  (C 33299)

Feb 8, 2011, 3:41 PM
Post #14 of 110 (2298 views)
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     Re: [davelepka] "Downfall" Hitler parody on Swooping [In reply to]  

Quote:
So if you want to jump a big-boy canopy, start acting like a big boy and share the model and WL of canopy you're wanting to jump. I have no problem outlining any of the activities I intend to do on a skydive because I can defend my actions to the point that nobody could argue that I am aware of the risks, and have taken steps to mitigate them
.
Crossfire II 169 Loaded at 1.54. and I know the risk lord knows I've heard it enough. Don't think that I'm going to jump straight into this canopy and start tugging on risers. Doings some hop and pops and learning the canopy up high. Followed by flying it dosal in the pattern like "harnes turns only" isn't going to make me majically go into a steep turn just above the ground.
Trying to get coaching should also show that I'm not a know it it all, and I still want to learn. I know my limits and I stay under them.


virgin-burner

Feb 8, 2011, 4:07 PM
Post #15 of 110 (2290 views)
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     Re: [castrodavidd] "Downfall" Hitler parody on Swooping [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Quote:
So if you want to jump a big-boy canopy, start acting like a big boy and share the model and WL of canopy you're wanting to jump. I have no problem outlining any of the activities I intend to do on a skydive because I can defend my actions to the point that nobody could argue that I am aware of the risks, and have taken steps to mitigate them
.
Crossfire II 169 Loaded at 1.54. and I know the risk lord knows I've heard it enough. Don't think that I'm going to jump straight into this canopy and start tugging on risers. Doings some hop and pops and learning the canopy up high. Followed by flying it dosal in the pattern like "harnes turns only" isn't going to make me majically go into a steep turn just above the ground.
Trying to get coaching should also show that I'm not a know it it all, and I still want to learn. I know my limits and I stay under them.

dude, i'm really everything but the poster-boy for sane canopy-progression, or at least what it's considered here by the "canopy-nazis". but an XF, at 150 jumps? good luck, you certainly have more guts than i have! Shocked


jacketsdb23  (D 29802)

Feb 8, 2011, 4:07 PM
Post #16 of 110 (2290 views)
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     Re: [castrodavidd] "Downfall" Hitler parody on Swooping [In reply to]  

Everything is gravy when things are going right....

Now imagine you get stuck in traffic, or boxed in. You need to make decisions quickly but the canopy is out flying your ability to make the correct decisions.

You try to turn to final, a little to late. Canopy is diving and you stab your brakes to arrest the diving canopy. Now you've just done a front flip through your risers. If your lucky - you walk back to the hanger with your tail between your legs because you just walked by 10 people who told you not to jump that canopy. If you are not lucky - you are in an ambulance to the nearest hospital. If you are really really unlucky, you just took another buddy of yours and mine out while making that late turn prior to hitting the ground because you had tunnel vision and you were reacting to the canopy instead of proactively avoiding this position you just put yourself into.

This is the exact scenario that played out at my home DZ not to long ago. He was very lucky, you may not be.

A crossfire at any wingloading is a poor canopy choice for someone with 150 jumps, even a highly skilled jumper. Nobody is saying you are not talented. Give yourself another 150 jumps on something semi elliptical, the benefits to you will be tremendous. Seek the same canopy coaching you seek now, with the less aggressive canopy.

Have fun and be safe.


castrodavidd  (C 33299)

Feb 8, 2011, 4:25 PM
Post #17 of 110 (2285 views)
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     Re: [jacketsdb23] "Downfall" Hitler parody on Swooping [In reply to]  

In the words of Chairle Sheen tonight. " There are no bad ideas, theres just a lack of will to execute them."


virgin-burner

Feb 8, 2011, 4:30 PM
Post #18 of 110 (2278 views)
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     Re: [castrodavidd] "Downfall" Hitler parody on Swooping [In reply to]  

the common conception is that an XF should be loaded at 1.8; probably that's why they didnt let you jump it. they had concerns it wouldnt perform as advertised.. Crazy


davelepka  (D 21448)

Feb 8, 2011, 4:41 PM
Post #19 of 110 (2275 views)
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     Re: [castrodavidd] "Downfall" Hitler parody on Swooping [In reply to]  

Quote:
I know the risk lord knows I've heard it enough

I don't think you do, or you wouldn't hear it so much. For example, if you walk around with your shoe untied, you're going to hear, 'Hey, your shoe is untied' all the time, and the reason is that your shoe is indeed untied. Now consider that you have heard that your canopy is too aggresive and loaded too much all the time, and where does that leave you? That's right, you hear it all the time because it's true.

Just to throw something out there, you complained that nobody ever checked your logbook to see what your canopy progression was, but I would suggest that there is no progression that could propel you from zero to an X-fire 2 @ 1.5 in just 150 jumps.

I'll just guess that your first 20 or 25 jumps were done on student rigs, with no real WL to speak of. So if you knock that right off the top, you're left with 125 jumps to get to where you think you should be. How many jumps can you really put on a canopy before advancing if you only have 125 jumps to get to an eliptical at 1.5? Even if you put 50 jumps on each size, that only leaves you 2.5 steps between a rental rig and a well loaded eliptical, which means you skipped over several steps (sizes) in the process.

Just give it up. Nothing you say is going to convince anyone that you're anywhere near right or deserving of any chance to prove anything. Make a suggestion that could be 'remotely' possible in terms of what you think you're ready to jump and you might get some sympathy, but what you're suggesting is absurd.

Just for reference, Brian Germain would have you jumping that canopy at that WL in the neighborhood of 500 jumps. Even if you want to call his WL chart conservative, and push the limits by 10% or 20%, you're still way off from where you should be with less than half the jumps he would reccomend.

Don't be stupid. 70-some percent of all fatalites in the US were under open canopies because it's a real problem, and not one you solve by pissing in the face of conventional wisdom. Even if the majority of the accidents involve higher-time jumpers, there are still low time jumpers on that list, and if you end up being one of them, the average will be of no comfort to your friends and family.


(This post was edited by davelepka on Feb 8, 2011, 4:44 PM)


AggieDave  (D License)

Feb 8, 2011, 4:49 PM
Post #20 of 110 (2269 views)
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     Re: [castrodavidd] "Downfall" Hitler parody on Swooping [In reply to]  

This thread has now been bookmarked, so I can reference this post in the incidents forum. As a canopy coach, I would turn you away unless you were willing to jump a different and much more appropriately loaded canopy. I wouldn't want your blood on my hands, since you obviously don't listen to those who have gone before you, you obviously won't listen to a canopy coach either.


(This post was edited by AggieDave on Feb 8, 2011, 6:06 PM)


davelepka  (D 21448)

Feb 8, 2011, 6:02 PM
Post #21 of 110 (2250 views)
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     Re: [castrodavidd] "Downfall" Hitler parody on Swooping [In reply to]  

Quote:
There are no bad ideas, theres just a lack of will to execute them

I'm also curious, did you buy this canopy in-person, or was it over the internet? Was the seller fully aware of your experience and weight? Did those subjects even come up? Had the seller ever seen you fly your previous canopy?


JSE  (D 28998)

Feb 8, 2011, 7:43 PM
Post #22 of 110 (2222 views)
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     Re: [castrodavidd] -Branched Castrodavid's discussion on swooping [In reply to]  

Assuming this guy isn't trolling...

You've got to ask yourself, why is everyone saying that I shouldn't/ can't do what I want. There are two possibilities:
1. Everyone is out to ruin my fun and there is some type of conspiracy to hold me back. Every other jumper out there must derive pleasure in holding me back.
OR
2. People who have been in the sport of a very long time and have seen more people than they care to count get hurt. They don't want to see me get hurt. Its dangerous for me and for others when I get in over my head.

Think about which one of these makes more sense.
Also think about how much of a fool you will feel like lying broken in a hospital. Don't believe me? I'd be happy to give you the phone numbers for several people who thought they were exceptions as well. You can ask the ones who are still here how that worked out.


buff  (D 30567)

Feb 8, 2011, 9:18 PM
Post #23 of 110 (2196 views)
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     Re: [JSE] -Branched Castrodavid's discussion on swooping [In reply to]  

I know a DZO that ain't letting you on their DZ with a reserve loaded at 1.5 no matter if you were a swoop god prodigy with a 230 main at your experience.


danielcroft  (D 31103)

Feb 8, 2011, 10:08 PM
Post #24 of 110 (2178 views)
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     Re: -Branched Castrodavid's discussion on swooping [In reply to]  

The proximity of this topic to the release of the "Downfall" video is auspicious to say the least.

There's a canopy progression that might account for it: He did his first 150 jumps on a Sabre 2 170 and is merely going elliptical. Laugh

Wing loading for rockstars: exit weight / (canopy ft^2 + ego) = WL
Wing loading for normal people: (exit weight + ego) / canopy ft^2 = WL


(This post was edited by danielcroft on Feb 8, 2011, 10:12 PM)


castrodavidd  (C 33299)

Feb 8, 2011, 10:19 PM
Post #25 of 110 (2171 views)
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     Re: [JSE] -Branched Castrodavid's discussion on swooping [In reply to]  

I'm not one of those people who think others are out to screw me. I'm sure that they have serious concerns. However, I feel that if I take precautions not to endanger others it should be my choice what I fly. If we all just want to make this sport safer than should we just ban high performance canopies all together.


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