Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Swooping and Canopy Control:
What's the "best" setup for a 270/450 turn?

 


bofh  (D 13995)

Dec 21, 2010, 9:41 AM
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What's the "best" setup for a 270/450 turn? Can't Post

I usually fly my setup first with the landing direction, then turn 90 degrees and fly towards the initiation point, crab if needed. If the winds are high enough, I instead fly to the initiation point, break until I'm hovering above it and wait for the correct altitude.

However I'm not consistent with my setup... The higher the wind, the more I have to turn near the initiation point and that in turn makes me slightly stressed, which in turn makes me turn too quickly in the beginning.

if I instead fly upwind, then crosswind having the correct heading for my final turn (so I drift sideways as I approach the initiation point), I become more consistent in my turn, but I find it harder to hit the initiation point.

So... How do you fly your setup for a 270 or 450 turn when the landing direction is downwind, upwind and crosswind?


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
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Dec 21, 2010, 11:21 AM
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Re: [bofh] What's the "best" setup for a 270/450 turn? [In reply to] Can't Post

Turn should be 'push button' - so, if you're changing your turn you need to be practicing (altitude permitting) the same turn over and over regardless of conditions.

Put yourself in a place where you can safely do so, get references, see how it pans out, and then fix your pattern appropriately. Try to change 1 thing at a time in your setup. So, for example, first get the muscle memory, then work on the lateral accuracy (ie you're in line with the gate, but over/undershoot), then add in the last component. In the end, it's all practice, comfort, and trust in your preparation (even if the accuracy visuals are unusual due to conditions)

The entire issue, as is usually the case, seems to be stemming from your pattern. You *should* have a student pattern if you've planned accurately. While the distance *over the ground* will be different in different conditions, the TIME spent on each leg should be the same if you have your pattern solid.

Blues,
Ian


(This post was edited by ianmdrennan on Dec 21, 2010, 11:23 AM)


bofh  (D 13995)

Dec 22, 2010, 5:41 AM
Post #3 of 9 (1204 views)
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Re: [ianmdrennan] What's the "best" setup for a 270/450 turn? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The entire issue, as is usually the case, seems to be stemming from your pattern. You *should* have a student pattern if you've planned accurately.

Thanks for the answer, but I still don't think I understand you.

By student pattern, do you mean one should fly the first leg 180 degrees relative to the landing direction, then 90 degrees relative to the landing direction or do you mean one should fly downwind, then crosswind relative to the actual wind direction?


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
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Dec 22, 2010, 6:59 AM
Post #4 of 9 (1184 views)
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Re: [bofh] What's the "best" setup for a 270/450 turn? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
By student pattern, do you mean one should fly the first leg 180 degrees relative to the landing direction,

Yes. While wind direction will define the various legs in relation to one another (ie stretched out, or shrunk down) it should still be flown relative to landing direction (IMO).

Ian


davelepka  (D 21448)

Dec 22, 2010, 7:39 AM
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Re: [bofh] What's the "best" setup for a 270/450 turn? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
By student pattern, do you mean one should fly the first leg 180 degrees relative to the landing direction, then 90 degrees relative to the landing direction

Yep. The 'student' pattern, or 'classic' pattern of downwind, base and final is what it is for a reason.

The downwind leg allows you to 'hold' upwind of your LZ until you hit pattern altitude. Being upwind, of course, is where you want to be because you have the most flexibility from that position. Anytime you get downwind or crosswind of your LZ, an increase in wind speed can limit your ability to get back over your LZ when you need to be. By holding upwind, you have the wind available to you if you need it, and if you don't can always just hold longer before turning in.

The downwind leg also lets you overfly your LZ at a relaitvely low altitude and check things out one last time before you 'commit' to landing there, and more specificaly, your chosen touchdown point.

The two 90 degree turns in the pattern, onto the corsswind base leg and the into the wind final leg, allow you to use the length of both of those legs to make last minute adjustments to your flight path. By changing the length of the legs, you can alter where you will end up.

The thing to remember is that swooping is just flying a canopy like everyone else until you start your turn. Just like Joe Jumper with 100 jumps, who uses the pattern to fine tune his accuracy and try to land in the peas, you can use the pattern to fine tune your accuracy, and arrive at your turn-in point right on time.

In the case of a 270/450 where your 'final' heading before your turn is 90 degrees from what the 'final' leg of a standard landing pattern would be, simply plan to arrive at your turn-in point high and just off to the side. Then you have built in the room to 'reset' yourself from the final heading of the pattern (into the wind) to your 'final' heading before your turn (90 degress off the wind line).

All of the lessons, tricks and tips they teach students and newbies to use the pattern to help them with accuracy can work for you too. The only differnece is that their end goal is a spot on the ground in the LZ, and your final goal is a spot 700 or 800ft (or whatever) above the LZ. The techniques you use to arrive there are the same because they're all just parachutes in the end.


raymod2  (D 25630)

Dec 22, 2010, 8:39 AM
Post #6 of 9 (1154 views)
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Re: [bofh] What's the "best" setup for a 270/450 turn? [In reply to] Can't Post

For swoops landing into the wind fly a "J" pattern. For swoops landing downwind fly a "Z" pattern. In both cases you enter your pattern *upwind* of your initiation point. If you try to fly a "J" pattern (student pattern) for a downwind swoop you are going to have a very hard time judging it and you will often find yourself arriving at your initiation point too low because you are fighting the wind.

You also need to move the initiation point based on the wind speed and direction because you will drift during your turn. The drift will be more severe in stronger winds and with a higher turn.


gainer  (D 800)

Dec 22, 2010, 11:21 AM
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Re: [raymod2] What's the "best" setup for a 270/450 turn? [In reply to] Can't Post

"For swoops landing into the wind fly a "J" pattern. For swoops landing downwind fly a "Z" pattern. In both cases you enter your pattern *upwind* of your initiation point. If you try to fly a "J" pattern (student pattern) for a downwind swoop you are going to have a very hard time judging it and you will often find yourself arriving at your initiation point too low because you are fighting the wind."

I understand the J-pattern but can someone please explain the z-pattern


raymod2  (D 25630)

Dec 22, 2010, 11:41 AM
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Re: [gainer] What's the "best" setup for a 270/450 turn? [In reply to] Can't Post

Code:
(+ = pattern entry, * = initiation point)

J pattern:

---------------+
|
|
*-----

Z pattern:

+---------------
|
|
*-----


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Dec 22, 2010, 11:53 AM
Post #9 of 9 (1100 views)
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Re: [raymod2] What's the "best" setup for a 270/450 turn? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
For swoops landing into the wind fly a "J" pattern. For swoops landing downwind fly a "Z" pattern. In both cases you enter your pattern *upwind* of your initiation point. If you try to fly a "J" pattern (student pattern) for a downwind swoop you are going to have a very hard time judging it and you will often find yourself arriving at your initiation point too low because you are fighting the wind.

You also need to move the initiation point based on the wind speed and direction because you will drift during your turn. The drift will be more severe in stronger winds and with a higher turn.

Good point, although it's worth noting that the 'z' approach is avoided in all but the most extreme upper conditions.

I've used it before, will use it again, but it requires some SERIOUS uppers before I consider pulling it out of the bag of tricks.

Blues,
Ian



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