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Camera Flying

 

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skyjunkie517  (B License)

Dec 12, 2010, 7:52 AM
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Camera Flying Can't Post

The SIM says that 200 jumps or a C license is "RECOMMENDED" before flying a camera. My question is - Does the DZ set the minium requirements for jumping a camera? If anyone could give me some info on this subject I would appreaciate it!


gusto77  (C 38461)

Dec 12, 2010, 8:05 AM
Post #2 of 170 (3195 views)
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Re: [skyjunkie517] Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

Are you talking about sticking a go pro to ur helmet and jumpin with it or are you talking about trying to film tandems? (FYI Im not a pro camera guy) I started jumping my go pro around 100 jumps and at my DZ doesn't have any requirements for minimum jump numbers except to refer to the SIM. I havent heard about DZ's having policies for fun jumpers jumping a camera like a go pro or contour... IMO its not a big deal but Im sure Ill get hammered by some Nazis for saying that


skyjunkie517  (B License)

Dec 12, 2010, 8:20 AM
Post #3 of 170 (3181 views)
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Re: [gusto77] Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

Im just flying a GoPro. A person I jump with got an ass chewing for having his RSL still connected while flying a contour. We both have about 125 jumps and we were told by the S&TA that we need to speak with an experienced camera flyer and then report back to him. What I dont understand is if there are no minium requirements set in the SIM who regulates this and by what guidelines?
In reply to:


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Dec 12, 2010, 8:31 AM
Post #4 of 170 (3174 views)
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Re: [skyjunkie517] Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The SIM says that 200 jumps or a C license is "RECOMMENDED" before flying a camera. My question is - Does the DZ set the minium requirements for jumping a camera? If anyone could give me some info on this subject I would appreaciate it!


The photo forum has a sticky that is called "READ ME that answers this question pretty thoroughly. Failing that, SEARCH will yield more than 1000 results.

Taking advice on attaching a camera from someone who doesn't respect the recommendations and where they came from may be hazardous to your (or other's) health.


skyjunkie517  (B License)

Dec 12, 2010, 8:38 AM
Post #5 of 170 (3169 views)
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Re: [DSE] Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

Im not saying that I am "In the right" by any means. I am just trying to find more information on the matter. Thank you for the link.


pilotdave  (D License)

Dec 12, 2010, 8:48 AM
Post #6 of 170 (3163 views)
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Re: [skyjunkie517] Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

USPA sets minimum requirements and recommendations. Dropzones may set their own rules. As soon as you say "just" a gopro, you are missing the point of the 200 jump MINIMUM recommendation. It has nothing to do with the size of the camera. Read that section of the SIM.

Dave


GLIDEANGLE  (D 30292)

Dec 12, 2010, 9:19 AM
Post #7 of 170 (3143 views)
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Re: [skyjunkie517] Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

USPA has made a reccomendation.

DZs can choose to implement that reccomendation, or a different rule (stricter or more lenient).

AND.... fellow jumpers can simply choose not to jump with you if they find your equipment choices are unsafe. This might be done overtly, or simply might be folks quietly jumping with other people instead of with you.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Dec 12, 2010, 10:02 AM
Post #8 of 170 (3121 views)
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Re: [skyjunkie517] Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The SIM says that 200 jumps or a C license is "RECOMMENDED" before flying a camera. My question is - Does the DZ set the minium requirements for jumping a camera? If anyone could give me some info on this subject I would appreciate it!

........................................................................

USPA recommendations are written in BLOOD!

Saving your own life should be second nature before strapping on any complicated gear like cameras or wingsuits or tandem students.

DZs always have the option of setting their own standards, but few DZOs have read USPA's huge statistical data base. Wise DZs set their standards slightly higher than USPA, while uwise DZs set their standards lower than USPA. When a DZ sets its standards lower than USPA, they ignore "best business practices" which means they stand alone in court if anyone gets hurt.

Junior jumpers wearing cameras was proved foolish back in the 1960s.
The debate is not over the size of the camera or the snag risk, but rather over the DISTRACTION.

How many dozen freefall cameramen have died because they fixated on their subject and lost track of altitude?
The only thing that has - changed since the 1960s - is the increased use of AADs.

Why would you want to re-learn a lesson the "bloody way?"


stratostar  (Student)

Dec 12, 2010, 10:11 AM
Post #9 of 170 (3116 views)
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Re: [riggerrob] Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

Oh but dude it's only a little go pro.....


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Dec 12, 2010, 11:03 AM
Post #10 of 170 (3091 views)
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Re: [skyjunkie517] Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Im just flying a GoPro.
In reply to:

The size of the fire doesn't matter much when you're rolling around in it.


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Dec 12, 2010, 12:52 PM
Post #11 of 170 (3039 views)
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Re: [skyjunkie517] Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

I look for that "recommendation" to be changed to a BSR requirement to have at least 200 jumps in the next year or so. I know I have taken a few people aside and told them to leave the cameras on the ground since they don't have the first clue about what they are doing as is and the camera is only making it worse.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Dec 12, 2010, 3:53 PM
Post #12 of 170 (2973 views)
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Re: [gusto77] Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
...IMO its not a big deal but Im sure Ill get hammered by some Nazis for saying that

Consider yourself hammered then.
If you're purposely willing to jeopordize your life AND my life by ignoring recommendations, then yes, consider yourself really, really hammered.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Dec 12, 2010, 4:09 PM
Post #13 of 170 (2963 views)
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Re: [skyjunkie517] Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What I dont understand is if there are no minium requirements set in the SIM who regulates this and by what guidelines?
In reply to:

YOU do. YOU choose to take those recommendations/guidelines to heart or you choose to ignore them. Simple as that.

The smarter ones take heed, the less smart ignore.

The less smart seem to think that those recommendations were simply dreamed up one night around the bonfire. Oh, so sadly mistaken.

The less smart seem to have it that their logic says the recommendations don't make sense. Oh, so sadly mistaken.

The less smart seem to think their Mad Skillz override recommendations. Oh, so sadly mistaken.

Good news: Some DZOs take those recommendations to heart.
Bad news: Some don't.


Some jumpers who choose to ignore recommendations scream about "freedom to do as I want". These are the immature in our midst. They are not mature enough to make good decisions for themselves. We are all free to do what we want...the smarter ones do it with prior knowledge, deep understanding, real skill and a strong sense of safety.


labrys  (D 29848)

Dec 12, 2010, 4:17 PM
Post #14 of 170 (2955 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

Right on, Andy.


Ron

Dec 12, 2010, 5:02 PM
Post #15 of 170 (2933 views)
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Re: [skyjunkie517] Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
The SIM says that 200 jumps or a C license is "RECOMMENDED" before flying a camera. My question is - Does the DZ set the minium requirements for jumping a camera? If anyone could give me some info on this subject I would appreaciate it!

The SIM says 200 jumps is a recommendation. It is a damn good recommendation.

Some DZO's and S&TA's follow it as a flat rule, others do not.

In the end it is up to the individual jumper to not die. The individual has to make choices that prevent them from becoming a set of grid coordinates on a DZ.

Everyone likes to think they are above average and will not screw up. But a quick read of the "incidents" section clearly shows that is not the case. Not a single one of the people that have died thought they were not going to be able to handle the situation.... Yet they all still died.

I'll gladly tell you that my first camera jump almost ended up with me getting myself killed. Of course, I thought I was skilled enough that it would not happen, yet it almost killed me anyway.

I hope the USPA makes the 200 jumps before a camera as a BSR that is not waiver-able.

DSE has done a good job in the video forum about listing incidents where a small camera caused problems. Well worth a read.

While reading it, try to understand that each and every individual on that list thought they had the skills to pull it off.


jimmytavino  (A 3914)

Dec 12, 2010, 7:01 PM
Post #16 of 170 (2883 views)
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Re: [Ron] Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

To the O P

...Regardless of whether it is a Recommendation.......
OR a BSR.....

It could be wise to consider this...

once a person reaches any such > " Magic Number"..... that alone does Not Automatically Qualify one, to do ANYTHING....

some need twice the number. some ten times the number...ShockedUnimpressed
One reason why "just a # "... should NOT be the determining factor..

with camera(s).. it takes an awful lot MORE....like good judgement, SECOND nature.. flying skills...
( and THAT often takes a ton of jumps...)
an Open Eye and an open Mind, and the ability to not allow our enthusiasm to overshadow our common sense..
It's the type of discipline where,,, at first at least, those who are always at the EDGE of the envelope,,Unsure need not apply.Unimpressed

imo
jmy


davelepka  (D 21448)

Dec 12, 2010, 8:16 PM
Post #17 of 170 (2841 views)
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Re: [skyjunkie517] Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
What I dont understand is if there are no minium requirements set in the SIM who regulates this and by what guidelines?

Simple answer - the DZO, or his appointed officer, will use their experience and superior knowledge of skydiving to determine what will, or will not, occur at their DZ.

If you don't like it, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.


skycamefalling  (A 58345)

Dec 12, 2010, 8:20 PM
Post #18 of 170 (2838 views)
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Re: [skyjunkie517] Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

I dont understand why people would choose to and jump with a camera before they are ready. There have been jumps where I would have loved to get footage of. But then I think about it, if I was jumping with a camera and someone were to ask how many jumps I had, I may have not been on those jumps. Also, I think jumping with a camera should be like getting your drivers license, it is a earned privilege and not a right. Enjoy the learning process one step at a time.

Just my .02


brucet7  (C 38954)

Dec 12, 2010, 8:32 PM
Post #19 of 170 (2827 views)
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Re: [skyjunkie517] Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

Seems everyone is in such a hurry to fly with a camera. While they are cool and I like seeing myself on other people's cameras, I figure a camera is 10 to 20 jumps.
Frankly, I need the practice and experience more than showing other people what they look like in the air. Angelic


KevinP  (Student)

Dec 12, 2010, 8:35 PM
Post #20 of 170 (2827 views)
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Re: [Ron] Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm kinda late to this (and really inexperienced), but what's wrong with asking an experienced camera dude to jump with you and video/photo you? Seems safer. How much would it cost? Seems like I have read that some camera qualified dude will do it for the cost of their ticket and a nominal extra kick. I would love to fly a camera and one day film tandems, but my patience (and self-preservation) overrides that desire when I think of killing someone due to inexperience.

Just my .02. And that's probably about what it's worth, but there it is.


almeister112  (D 31305)

Dec 12, 2010, 9:05 PM
Post #21 of 170 (2808 views)
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Re: [skyjunkie517] Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

As a 250-jump wonder, I figured I'd toss my 2 cents' worth in, too.

I've been reading the forums since I got my license last January, and I've seen the arguments about GoPros time and again. So I decided, as I've done pretty much every step of the way, to play it safe. I got a GoPro around jump 205 or so and spent half a day doing hop-n-pops with it to make sure it wasn't a snag hazard. Then I ended up taking it on some jumps, and it's been fine.

Would I have been fine strapping it on earlier? Probably. But I always assume that the people making the recommendations know a helluva lot more about what they're talking about than I do, and I'm really glad I waited to jump a camera as long as I did. It wasn't a big deal when I got it since I was used to being altitude aware, keeping track of where people were tracking, etc. I plan to be jumping for years, so I'm in no hurry to kill myself trying everything now.


pilot-one  (D 30000)

Dec 12, 2010, 9:30 PM
Post #22 of 170 (2794 views)
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Re: [skyjunkie517] Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Im not saying that I am "In the right" by any means. I am just trying to find more information on the matter. Thank you for the link.

All you have to do is talk to Paul (DZO of SSM) since he sets the rules where you are jumping.
Also when a substantially more experienced jumper says you should have your RSL disconnected you should check into it before ignoring the advice.

'nuf said


skycamefalling  (A 58345)

Dec 12, 2010, 9:31 PM
Post #23 of 170 (2794 views)
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Re: [almeister112] Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

I am suprised that with all of the threads talking about Gopros on this forum, there is not a way that people who put the word Gopro in there title, that it will redirect them to a page that has all of the other threads on that camera. That way, we wont have to read any more threads about the Gopro. We would all be sparedWink.......

There, problem solved. Lock this thread up nowTongue


(This post was edited by skycamefalling on Dec 12, 2010, 9:33 PM)


pilot-one  (D 30000)

Dec 12, 2010, 9:39 PM
Post #24 of 170 (2785 views)
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Re: [skyjunkie517] Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Im just flying a GoPro. A person I jump with got an ass chewing for having his RSL still connected while flying a contour. We both have about 125 jumps and we were told by the S&TA that we need to speak with an experienced camera flyer and then report back to him. What I dont understand is if there are no minium requirements set in the SIM who regulates this and by what guidelines?
In reply to:

Here's another link for you guys to read too:
http://www.dropzone.com/...;;page=unread#unread


champu  (D 28302)

Dec 12, 2010, 10:18 PM
Post #25 of 170 (2761 views)
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Re: [skyjunkie517] Camera Flying [In reply to] Can't Post

Ah, go pros... you do realize how dorky those things look right?

By the way, another thing I've noticed when it comes to <insert thing people tell you to wait to do> is that people who fast track their way through all the toys tend to fast track their way to being burnt out on the sport too. If you want to get better or, dare I say, good at anything you should be prepared to set goals that extend hundreds of jumps out.
Attachments: go_pros.jpg (65.2 KB)


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