Forums: Skydiving: Tandem Skydiving:
taking tandem students wingsuiting

 

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Premier cpoxon  (D 11665)
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Dec 3, 2010, 12:12 AM
Post #1 of 253 (6029 views)
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taking tandem students wingsuiting Can't Post

Taken from Icarus Canopies by NZ Aerosports's Facebook page.

Quote:
Here's Brett Newman running the first ever tandem wingsuit with a REAL tandem passenger at Full Moon Boogie in Oz. Maximum respect Brett, and Hayden for getting the shots!

Does anyone think this is a good idea?
Attachments: 155486_175241399172243_139399876089729_507335_3895139_n.jpg (8.80 KB)


piisfish

Dec 3, 2010, 12:30 AM
Post #2 of 253 (5973 views)
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Re: [cpoxon] taking tandem students wingsuiting [In reply to] Can't Post

in one way it's a great idea, in another way, not so much...


BobMoore  (D 13136)

Dec 3, 2010, 12:57 AM
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Re: taking tandem students wingsuiting [In reply to] Can't Post

Wow! It's a biplane!


Unstable  (D 28930)

Dec 3, 2010, 12:58 AM
Post #4 of 253 (5959 views)
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Re: [cpoxon] taking tandem students wingsuiting [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Does anyone think this is a good idea?


No. I mean, why are they even doing that? Look, a tandem is a special type of skydive with it's own special risks. Wing Suite Flying is it's own special skydive with it's own special risks. If there is one thing I've learned fro this sport, is that it's generally not a fantastic idea to mix and match risk factors.

Reason #2 ~ what does the student really get from it anyway?


piisfish

Dec 3, 2010, 1:32 AM
Post #5 of 253 (5943 views)
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Re: [Unstable] taking tandem students wingsuiting [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Reason #2 ~ what does the student really get from it anyway?
maybe a multi tandem repeater... IMO not something to do with a 1st timer


RIGGER  (D 7933)

Dec 3, 2010, 2:00 AM
Post #6 of 253 (5928 views)
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Re: [cpoxon] taking tandem students wingsuiting [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile Hi

Not a good idea at all.

There is no benifit at all for the student or the TI.

It might looks cool in the photos & for "Showing" the "Extreme" of skydiving but it is a very wrong action.

Do we have one more case when $$$ & P/R are before SAFETY ???

There is an extra amount of RISKS & the TI does not have the rights to risk the 1st time student.

No, there is no respect for "Tandem Games"

I wonder what the tandem system mfg. has to say?

TI's Be Safe & Smart


Cheers!!!


(This post was edited by RIGGER on Dec 3, 2010, 2:52 AM)


feuergnom  (D License)

Dec 3, 2010, 4:07 AM
Post #7 of 253 (5883 views)
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Re: [RIGGER] taking tandem students wingsuiting [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I wonder what the tandem system mfg. has to say?

IIRC the manufacturers standpoints have always been very clear when it came to "speciality jumps" with tandem gear


RIGGER  (D 7933)

Dec 3, 2010, 5:03 AM
Post #8 of 253 (5866 views)
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Re: [feuergnom] taking tandem students wingsuiting [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile Hi

The system looks like a Sigma Tandem System.

Drouge still in place & I wonder if that photo is after exit before drogue out or the TI is flying the pair with no drogue - if so this is a violation of the tandem mfg. instructions & the training process.

I would say that the whole jump is in violation of the tandem system mfg. policy / instructions.

Tandem mfg. can not control all TI around the world but can take action if jumps like that are made.

As a UPT & USPA T I/E I'm sorry to see that - such "Games" might lead to accidents.

Be Safe !!!


JohnRich  (D License)

Dec 3, 2010, 6:56 AM
Post #9 of 253 (5785 views)
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Re: [cpoxon] taking tandem students wingsuiting [In reply to] Can't Post

What is the rate of descent of a drogueless tandem wingsuit pair?
Does the wingsuit reduce the rate of fall to that of a normal skydive?


(This post was edited by JohnRich on Dec 3, 2010, 6:57 AM)


Grubber  (C 39556)

Dec 3, 2010, 7:08 AM
Post #10 of 253 (5770 views)
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Re: [JohnRich] taking tandem students wingsuiting [In reply to] Can't Post

Do you have to make 200 regular tandem jumps prior to making your first tandem wingsuit? Wink


Arvoitus  (D 3917)

Dec 3, 2010, 7:18 AM
Post #11 of 253 (5757 views)
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Re: [cpoxon] taking tandem students wingsuiting [In reply to] Can't Post

So we have tandem BASE and wingsuit tandems. How long until we have wingsuit BASE tandems?


normiss  (D 28356)

Dec 3, 2010, 7:22 AM
Post #12 of 253 (5752 views)
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Re: [Arvoitus] taking tandem students wingsuiting [In reply to] Can't Post

Probably about the same time tandem rig manufacturers stop making rigs.
Unsure


steveorino  (D 26782)

Dec 3, 2010, 7:30 AM
Post #13 of 253 (5742 views)
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Re: [cpoxon] taking tandem students wingsuiting [In reply to] Can't Post

Being a TI and WS flyer, I say no. I only have about 1000 tandems, but some of them had the craziest body positions despite good instruction. I can only imagine how a WS would increase the problem student exponentially.


GLIDEANGLE  (D 30292)

Dec 3, 2010, 8:06 AM
Post #14 of 253 (5705 views)
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Re: [cpoxon] taking tandem students wingsuiting [In reply to] Can't Post

I wonder if the student realized that he was being a test jumper. How could one adequately explain to a student the importance of the unknown risks in this jump?

This MIGHT make sense if it was preceded by a couple hundred wingsuit tandem jumps where both jumpers are TIs and experienced WS jumpers who test every bad scenario they can imagine.


ShotterMG  (Student)

Dec 3, 2010, 11:11 AM
Post #15 of 253 (5598 views)
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Re: [cpoxon] taking tandem students wingsuiting [In reply to] Can't Post

Awesome! Great spirits will always encounter violent opposition from mediocre minded dz.comer lemmings. But consenting adults who know the risks should be allowed to do what they want. IMO.


Ron

Dec 3, 2010, 11:35 AM
Post #16 of 253 (5588 views)
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Re: [ShotterMG] taking tandem students wingsuiting [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
But consenting adults who know the risks should be allowed to do what they want. IMO.

Do you know the Pax knew the additional risks?


D22369  (D 22369)

Dec 3, 2010, 1:10 PM
Post #17 of 253 (5554 views)
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Re: [ShotterMG] taking tandem students wingsuiting [In reply to] Can't Post

An experienced jumper would know the risks, I doubt a passenger on his 1st would grasp the additional danger.

mediocre minded? Add me to this list, I will accept that label gladly in addition to canopy nazi.

this was done to amuse the TI only, I have worked with TI's who have grown bored with hauling meat - they tend to do stupid things to liven up their job.

this was stupid and irresponsible

Roy


diablopilot  (D License)

Dec 3, 2010, 1:29 PM
Post #18 of 253 (5538 views)
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Re: [ShotterMG] taking tandem students wingsuiting [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Awesome! Great spirits will always encounter violent opposition from mediocre minded dz.comer lemmings. But consenting adults who know the risks should be allowed to do what they want. IMO.

Spoken like a newb. When you have a SIGNIFICANT amount of experience in Tandems, Wingsuits, and Skydiving, MAYBE I and other safety conscientious TI's, IE's, and Manufacturer's might listen to your FUBAR point of view, but for now, you're out to lunch.

Your actions, do affect the rest of us in the industry.


ShotterMG  (Student)

Dec 3, 2010, 1:47 PM
Post #19 of 253 (5525 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] taking tandem students wingsuiting [In reply to] Can't Post

  I don't have much to say because your posts speak for themselves. It's obvious to everyone you are a typical trailer park sky god who can barely skydive other than throw a drogue. And yet you shout down everybody on every single topic. IMO....you embody everything that right minded, normal, humble, educated people hate about skydiving. Thankfully there are not many of you left.


gjhdiver  (D 7731)

Dec 3, 2010, 2:51 PM
Post #20 of 253 (5484 views)
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Re: [ShotterMG] taking tandem students wingsuiting [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I don't have much to say because your posts speak for themselves..

As do your, which is why you see all the other posters boots in your ass.

As regards the original question about wingsuit tandem, it's a fucking stupid idea.

It adds an extra level of complexity and danger to an already complex and dangerous activity, and gives absolutely nothing in return for that risk. It also places the TI and their DZ in a very questionable legal area with regards to consent and liability.

It's not about fun for the TI, it's about the passenger. Those of use who've been around long enough have seen how bad the shitstorm gets when a bored or careless TI gets unlucky.

If you're unsure, call up Bill Booth or Ted Strong and ask them what they think about it.


TheCaptain  (D License)

Dec 3, 2010, 3:16 PM
Post #21 of 253 (5466 views)
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Re: [gjhdiver] taking tandem students wingsuiting [In reply to] Can't Post

100% agree with you.
Just imagine the student dropping one knee or one leg which happens quite often during normal tandems along with body positions I can hardly imagine the human body contort to without harm. The wingsuit also limits the instructor being able to ankle lock the student if needed.


normiss  (D 28356)

Dec 3, 2010, 3:17 PM
Post #22 of 253 (5464 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] taking tandem students wingsuiting [In reply to] Can't Post

Feed the troll.

The image on their FB page clearly states this was a first time tandem PAX.
CrazyCrazyCrazy

This DZ should lose their tandem rigs.


stratostar  (Student)

Dec 3, 2010, 3:19 PM
Post #23 of 253 (5461 views)
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Re: [gjhdiver] taking tandem students wingsuiting [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't know why all you guys have to be all dickhead like and try to hold back progress man, I mean so what if it's dangerous, sky jumping is dangerous, hell there is nothing wrong with a little added excitement for the right price, we all need to band together and start wingsuit base jumping so everyone can enjoy proximity flying at it's best and this is a good start to get everyone on the same page, just think of all the new people this will bring into the sport and bridge day too.

Hell everyone said the Wright brothers were nutcases and dangerous too and now look where we are... ye all need to stop being such a bunch of wadded up panties in your crack north American wankers and get on with the rest of the worlds progress in aero sports..... dude! Hurry up and suit man, I'll video.






Wink


(This post was edited by stratostar on Dec 3, 2010, 7:14 PM)


airtwardo  (D License)

Dec 3, 2010, 3:31 PM
Post #24 of 253 (5454 views)
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Re: [stratostar] taking tandem students wingsuiting [In reply to] Can't Post

 Hurry up and suit man, I'll video.






Wink

I'll watch from the ground...1st one to the crater, gets all the good stuff! Smile


baseknut  (D 29908)

Dec 3, 2010, 5:04 PM
Post #25 of 253 (5420 views)
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Re: [RIGGER] taking tandem students wingsuiting [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
There is no benifit at all for the student or the TI.

Then what is the benefit of a funjumper doing a wingsuit jump, or even a skydive for that matter. nothing its pointless act, other than ones own enjoyment.

i think it looks awesome, and if they both enjoyed themselves then it was worth it, as long as the passanger understood the risks.


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