Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
2 Needle machine question

 


gowlerk  (C 3196)

Nov 24, 2010, 9:54 AM
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2 Needle machine question Can't Post

      In researching what kind of machine to look for I've managed to come up with several models of Brother, Juki, Consew, and Singers to consider. They all seem to be based on the Singer 212 model. Except the Pfaffs, but I'm not going there.
What I am wondering about is compound feed, (drop and needle feed) versus triple feed, (with the addition of walking foot).
What do most riggers use, and is there a lot of need to go with triple feed?

Thanks
Ken


gowlerk  (C 3196)

Nov 24, 2010, 12:02 PM
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Re: [gowlerk] 2 Needle machine question [In reply to] Can't Post

Me again,
Just to be clear, I fully understand the difference between the different feed types. I'm only wondering about whether or not people find needle feed to be adequate, or if walking feet are much better and worth the extra money in a two needle machine.

Ken


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Nov 24, 2010, 12:33 PM
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Re: [gowlerk] 2 Needle machine question [In reply to] Can't Post

It really depends upon how thick the material is that you are binding.
Two or three layers of Cordura can be handle with a simple stationary foot.

At the thick end of the scale (3 layers of Cordura plus a plastic stiffener), compound feed helps.


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Nov 24, 2010, 12:52 PM
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Re: [gowlerk] 2 Needle machine question [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Ken,

Quote:
needle feed to be adequate, or if walking feet are much better and worth the extra money in a two needle machine.

That is for you to determine. I can only answer for myself & my experiences.

For nearly 30 yrs I used a Singer 212 machine and had no problems with it. However, it was an older machine & I am always looking for newer 'stuff.' I sold it to a very experienced rigger who sent me an email and said it ( the Singer ) was the best double-needle machine that he has ever used.

Last year I had the opportunity buy a used Consew 339RB-1. I checked with some people who's opinions on sewing machines I respect & bit the bullet & bought the machine. I bought a 90 degree folder ( a new device for me to use ) & other new parts to convert it to a 3/16" needle spacing. I bought all of the parts & the folder from Henderson Sewing in Alabama. The folder & the parts cost me nearly what the machine itself cost me. Tongue

It is a fantastic machine; the best double-needle that I have ever used ( but my personal experience is limited ). I asked the company selling the Consew why they were selling it & they said that they were going with Juki machines as they considered them the Cadillac of the industry ( they make safety vests, signs, etc & use the machines nearly 8 hrs everyday ).

So far the Consew is working fantastically for me.

I hope that helps in someway,

JerryBaumchen
Attachments: Binder.jpg (59.8 KB)
  Consew 339.jpg (78.6 KB)


fcajump  (D 15598)

Nov 24, 2010, 1:12 PM
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Re: [JerryBaumchen] 2 Needle machine question [In reply to] Can't Post

How's that binder work for you?
I've got a traditional Paragear special... Looks like the one you have would free up the workspace in front of the foot a bit...

JW


Beatnik  (D 1051)

Nov 24, 2010, 1:36 PM
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Re: [JerryBaumchen] 2 Needle machine question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
So far the Consew is working fantastically for me.

Same with mine. It was the best $375 on a sewing machine I ever spent. I don't think the guy realized the value of the machine.


gowlerk  (C 3196)

Nov 24, 2010, 1:49 PM
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Re: [riggerrob] 2 Needle machine question [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Rob,
Yea, that's about what I thought the answer would be. It all depends. I'm guessing if you only had room for one machine you would likely opt for walking foot then.

Ken


gowlerk  (C 3196)

Nov 24, 2010, 1:52 PM
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Re: [JerryBaumchen] 2 Needle machine question [In reply to] Can't Post

Jerry,
That looks like a nice setup. The Consew 339 is definatly on my watch list. But I am wondering about the 212 you had. They come in different versions, some with and some without walking foot. Which was yours?

Ken


gowlerk  (C 3196)

Nov 24, 2010, 2:21 PM
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Re: [Beatnik] 2 Needle machine question [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I don't think the guy realized the value of the machine.

And some how or other you managed to resist the urge to explain it to him? Hard to believe.
But seriously I'm thinking if I am patient a good machine will come to me cheaply as well. At least I hope so.

Ken


Beatnik  (D 1051)

Nov 24, 2010, 2:58 PM
Post #10 of 21 (722 views)
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Re: [gowlerk] 2 Needle machine question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
And some how or other you managed to resist the urge to explain it to him? Hard to believe.

What are you trying to imply? The guy had 7 machines in total that he was selling, I think he wanted them gone since he was wanting space. Since he was a fashion designer for years he may have known and wanted a quick sale. M]But my perception of whether he realized the value is irrelevant. He set the price in his ad and I gave him the full asking price.


RiggerLee

Nov 24, 2010, 3:07 PM
Post #11 of 21 (720 views)
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Re: [gowlerk] 2 Needle machine question [In reply to] Can't Post

Looking at the picture I'm trying to under stand how you have the binder set up. have you ground the outer foot to allow the fence to set along the inner osolating foot? Or is it just that far in front of the foot?

I have always used a neadle feed. I don't think you want a full walking foot. I've bound vertually every thing imagionable up to thick plactic stiffener and multible layers of cordura with a good right angle binder. Plan on spending $400+ on the binder. Be suspicious of any thing cheeper. It's worth the investment. The needle feed alows you to place the binder much closer in front and closer to the side then a walking foot. You should have to grind the foot down from both the front and side to place the binder.

I'd love to have a big bobben consew but I'd still convert it to a needle feed. Of the singers I'd look for an old 112-w-140 rather then one of the 212 I think the 112 is heavier and pounds through things better then the 212. If you were near by I could sell you a 212 head for $100. I've got about a dozen or so spare heads around if any body needs one.

Lee


gowlerk  (C 3196)

Nov 24, 2010, 3:30 PM
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Re: [Beatnik] 2 Needle machine question [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm implying that very rarely have I ever seen you pass up an opportunity to share all of your vast knowledge! Nothing wrong with getting a great deal. I would pay the man and be on my way in a heart beat.

Ken


Beatnik  (D 1051)

Nov 24, 2010, 3:38 PM
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Re: [gowlerk] 2 Needle machine question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'm implying that very rarely have I ever seen you pass up an opportunity to share all of your vast knowledge!

Ken considering that we have very rarely talked and hardly know each other. Your implications seem to be made with little first hand evidence. I never thought and never claimed I have vast knowledge. But thanks for the compliment. Laugh


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Nov 24, 2010, 4:44 PM
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Re: [fcajump] 2 Needle machine question [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Jim,

Quote:
How's that binder work for you?

As with anything, it has it good points and somethings that I don't care for.

When I was having the binder/folder made they req'd that I send them a sample of the material I would be stitching. So I sent them the heaviest situation that I run into. The binder/folder still could use some more room to get thick materials into it.

I contacted them about modifying it and they said 'NO' and that I would have to buy another one. Crazy

At $400+ I have decided that it works just fine as it is. Tongue

You have seen the results.

JerryBaumchen


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Nov 24, 2010, 4:48 PM
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Re: [gowlerk] 2 Needle machine question [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Ken,

Quote:
They come in different versions, some with and some without walking foot. Which was yours?

I spent 30 yrs enforcing very specific technical req'ments. I am a Mechanical Engineer.

Now for the good part: I really do not know what 'needle-feed' and/or 'drop feed' mean. I simply have never learned/been taught; and at this point in life, I don't care.

It was not a walking foot, that much I do know. Crazy

The Consew is a walking foot machine.

JerryBaumchen


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Nov 24, 2010, 4:56 PM
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Re: [RiggerLee] 2 Needle machine question [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Lee,

Are those questions for me?

If so, here goes:

Quote:
Looking at the picture I'm trying to under stand how you have the binder set up. have you ground the outer foot to allow the fence to set along the inner osolating foot? Or is it just that far in front of the foot?

No grinding on anything on the machine. Some slight grinding on the binder/folder to get it closer to everything.

Quote:
I don't think you want a full walking foot.

I could not disagree more after having this machine up & running for many months now.

But that might be like blondes vs redheads; to each his own. Tongue

Quote:
Plan on spending $400+ on the binder.

Yup, as with most things in life: You get what you paid for.

Quote:
The needle feed alows you to place the binder much closer in front and closer to the side then a walking foot.

Yup, but this Consew setup, as you see it, is far superior to my old Singer without walking foot. YMMV

Actually, by having the binder/folder back that much it allows me to get the heavier mat'ls in easier because I can pull them away from the binder/folder and then have the room to get them back into the T-3 tape.

JerryBaumchen


Beatnik  (D 1051)

Nov 24, 2010, 5:15 PM
Post #17 of 21 (675 views)
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Re: [JerryBaumchen] 2 Needle machine question [In reply to] Can't Post

Where did you get your binder from? I contacted a few places that people have recommended on here and they have come back with a price around $300 and the same requirement to send in the intended material to sew. I am research before I replace the binder I have.


gowlerk  (C 3196)

Nov 24, 2010, 5:37 PM
Post #18 of 21 (673 views)
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Re: [JerryBaumchen] 2 Needle machine question [In reply to] Can't Post

Simple Jerry, needle feed means the needle moves back and forth to help feed, drop feed is less intuitive, but just means feed dogs. And you have answered my question just fine thank you.

Ken


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Nov 24, 2010, 6:53 PM
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Re: [Beatnik] 2 Needle machine question [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Beatnik,

Here:

http://www.hendersonsewing.com/

So far, a very good company to deal with.

Good luck,

JerryBaumchen


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Nov 24, 2010, 6:56 PM
Post #20 of 21 (652 views)
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Re: [gowlerk] 2 Needle machine question [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Ken,

Quote:
needle feed means the needle moves back and forth to help feed, drop feed is less intuitive, but just means feed dogs.

Thanks, I'll try to remember. There isn't going to be a quiz on this stuff on Friday is there? Tongue

Quote:
And you have answered my question just fine thank you.

Glad to have helped somewhat. At the end of the day, we are all in this together.

JerryBaumchen


gowlerk  (C 3196)

Nov 25, 2010, 6:03 PM
Post #21 of 21 (607 views)
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Re: [gowlerk] 2 Needle machine question [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you all for your answers. I think I've got the idea now. What I'm taking away from this is that if the right machine at the right price comes along, needle feed should be adequate for the amount I would use it. But a walking foot machine is preferable if it is available.

Thanks
Ken



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