Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Student CYPRES limitations

 

First page Previous page 1 2 3 Next page Last page  View All

abyzet  (C 40095)

Nov 22, 2010, 9:29 AM
Post #1 of 57 (1555 views)
Shortcut
Student CYPRES limitations Can't Post

So there are plenty of posts in the forums about the parameters of a student cypres fire OVER 1000 feet. My question is, would a 180 degree turn under 1000 likely provoke a cypres fire? Would this create a situation with enough vertical speed to exceed 29 mph?


DanG  (D 22351)

Nov 22, 2010, 9:33 AM
Post #2 of 57 (1546 views)
Shortcut
Re: [abyzet] Student CYPRES limitations [In reply to] Can't Post

Ask Roger next time you see him at the DZ.

Short answer: depends, but it could.


petejones45  (C License)

Nov 22, 2010, 9:36 AM
Post #3 of 57 (1543 views)
Shortcut
Re: [abyzet] Student CYPRES limitations [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
So there are plenty of posts in the forums about the parameters of a student cypres fire OVER 1000 feet. My question is, would a 180 degree turn under 1000 likely provoke a cypres fire? Would this create a situation with enough vertical speed to exceed 29 mph?

if the dz is using appropriate size student canopies(280ish) then it shouldn't be an issue although i know of some dropzones that put the expert models into their student/rental gear since some of it has 190s down to 150s


DocPop  (C License)

Nov 22, 2010, 9:42 AM
Post #4 of 57 (1533 views)
Shortcut
Re: [petejones45] Student CYPRES limitations [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
if the dz is using appropriate size student canopies(280ish) then it shouldn't be an issue although i know of some dropzones that put the expert models into their student/rental gear since some of it has 190s down to 150s

Dude - you really do post some BS. What makes you think that 280 is the "appropriate" size for student canopies? You should probably keep quiet and learn until you know enough for your "advice" to be of value to someone.

To the OP - the answer to your question really depends on a lot of factors including wing-loading, canopy size, canopy type and how the 180 turn is performed. As a sensible rule though, no hard turns (meaning toggles below shoulder level) under your hard deck is a good one to follow to avoid not only AAD fires but also induced line twists, canopy collisions in the pattern etc..


petejones45  (C License)

Nov 22, 2010, 9:48 AM
Post #5 of 57 (1527 views)
Shortcut
Re: [DocPop] Student CYPRES limitations [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Dude - you really do post some BS. What makes you think that 280 is the "appropriate" size for student canopies? You should probably keep quiet and learn until you know enough for your "advice" to be of value to someone.

ok what size would you put them out on? ask anywhere and 280's are pretty much the standard for first jump students


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Nov 22, 2010, 9:54 AM
Post #6 of 57 (1521 views)
Shortcut
Re: [petejones45] Student CYPRES limitations [In reply to] Can't Post

>if the dz is using appropriate size student canopies(280ish) then
>it shouldn't be an issue

You can get a student cypres to fire under a Manta if you push it hard enough. However, normal student maneuvers (90 degree turns to land) will likely not cause trouble.


Superfletch  (D 26145)

Nov 22, 2010, 9:56 AM
Post #7 of 57 (1520 views)
Shortcut
Re: [petejones45] Student CYPRES limitations [In reply to] Can't Post

Well... just for your information... at our dropzone we use Navigator 200's, 220's, 240's and 260's. We have nothing smaller than a 200 for students and nothing larger than a 260. What we allow the student to jump solely depends on their weight and previous canopy control.


petejones45  (C License)

Nov 22, 2010, 9:57 AM
Post #8 of 57 (1519 views)
Shortcut
Re: [billvon] Student CYPRES limitations [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
You can get a student cypres to fire under a Manta if you push it hard enough. However, normal student maneuvers (90 degree turns to land) will likely not cause trouble.

i'm sure that would require manuevers that a student would most defenatly not do: crank the toggle to feet, front riser spirals(large amount of strengh would be required for that) etc etc


petejones45  (C License)

Nov 22, 2010, 10:00 AM
Post #9 of 57 (1510 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Superfletch] Student CYPRES limitations [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Well... just for your information... at our dropzone we use Navigator 200's, 220's, 240's and 260's. We have nothing smaller than a 200 for students and nothing larger than a 260. What we allow the student to jump solely depends on their weight and previous canopy control.

Well... just for your information... you don't represent every dropzone buddy Wink


labrys  (D 29848)

Nov 22, 2010, 10:02 AM
Post #10 of 57 (1505 views)
Shortcut
Re: [petejones45] Student CYPRES limitations [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
i'm sure that would require manuevers that a student would most defenatly not do

Dude... student MOST assuredly do that shit. All of it. You really don't have a clue what most students can and will do, do you?


wildcard451  (D License)

Nov 22, 2010, 10:04 AM
Post #11 of 57 (1501 views)
Shortcut
Re: [abyzet] Student CYPRES limitations [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
So there are plenty of posts in the forums about the parameters of a student cypres fire OVER 1000 feet. My question is, would a 180 degree turn under 1000 likely provoke a cypres fire? Would this create a situation with enough vertical speed to exceed 29 mph?

Andy, I grabbed a rental Sabre2 170 one day, at the time I was loading it maybe 1.3-1.4. It had a student cypres in it, but I was just doing a hop and pop while my gear was on order from a wrap. In hindsight I should have turned it off, but lesson learned.

I fired a student cypress flying straight and doing (what I thought at 297 jumps to be) gentle 90s and landed the two out in a stable biplane. So yes, you should easily be able to exceed the firing parameters with a student cypres and a 180 degree toggle turn.


(This post was edited by wildcard451 on Nov 22, 2010, 10:07 AM)


MorfiusX  (D 32647)

Nov 22, 2010, 10:04 AM
Post #12 of 57 (1501 views)
Shortcut
Re: [petejones45] Student CYPRES limitations [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
You can get a student cypres to fire under a Manta if you push it hard enough. However, normal student maneuvers (90 degree turns to land) will likely not cause trouble.

i'm sure that would require manuevers that a student would most defenatly not do: crank the toggle to feet, front riser spirals(large amount of strengh would be required for that) etc etc

Students aren't the only ones who might use a student cypress. My DZ's rental gear is also the student gear. It is all Navigator 200-280s, all have the student cypress (actually, they are Vigil's). Lots of people rent the rigs, not just students.

Also, I was just looking through the classifieds, someone is selling a complete rig with a Spectre and a student cypress.

An experienced jumper may end up using one, it would just depend on the situation.


(This post was edited by MorfiusX on Nov 22, 2010, 10:05 AM)


petejones45  (C License)

Nov 22, 2010, 10:07 AM
Post #13 of 57 (1492 views)
Shortcut
Re: [labrys] Student CYPRES limitations [In reply to] Can't Post

I have seen hundreds of students jump and not one has been able to do a fully front riser spiral or crank the toggle so hard that they fire a student cypres


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Nov 22, 2010, 10:08 AM
Post #14 of 57 (1491 views)
Shortcut
Re: [petejones45] Student CYPRES limitations [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
You can get a student cypres to fire under a Manta if you push it hard enough. However, normal student maneuvers (90 degree turns to land) will likely not cause trouble.

i'm sure that would require manuevers that a student would most defenatly not do: crank the toggle to feet, front riser spirals(large amount of strengh would be required for that) etc etc

In reply to:
In reply to:
Well... just for your information... at our dropzone we use Navigator 200's, 220's, 240's and 260's. We have nothing smaller than a 200 for students and nothing larger than a 260. What we allow the student to jump solely depends on their weight and previous canopy control.

Well... just for your information... you don't represent every dropzone buddy Wink



There are Students who have done those exact things, just "cause" or they had a conversation with some one at the Bon Fire , read it online etc, etc.

There are very few Drop Zones that do not have at least a small assortment of student gear with different sized mains. In my experience I have not seen a DZ yet with only one size Student Main.

Matt


petejones45  (C License)

Nov 22, 2010, 10:10 AM
Post #15 of 57 (1486 views)
Shortcut
Re: [MorfiusX] Student CYPRES limitations [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
You can get a student cypres to fire under a Manta if you push it hard enough. However, normal student maneuvers (90 degree turns to land) will likely not cause trouble.

i'm sure that would require manuevers that a student would most defenatly not do: crank the toggle to feet, front riser spirals(large amount of strengh would be required for that) etc etc

Students aren't the only ones who might use a student cypress. My DZ's rental gear is also the student gear. It is all Navigator 200-280s, all have the student cypress (actually, they are Vigil's). Lots of people rent the rigs, not just students.

Also, I was just looking through the classifieds, someone is selling a complete rig with a Spectre and a student cypress.

An experienced jumper may end up using one, it would just depend on the situation.

You are right but an experienced jumper should know the limitaions of the gear and not try to push their luck


DocPop  (C License)

Nov 22, 2010, 10:11 AM
Post #16 of 57 (1483 views)
Shortcut
Re: [petejones45] Student CYPRES limitations [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

ok what size would you put them out on? ask anywhere and 280's are pretty much the standard for first jump students

Personally, not being an instructor, I wouldn't make any canopy recommendations for students - and I suggest you do the same. However, the appropriate size canopy for a first jump student depends on their bodyweight. If you were to put a 100lb girl on a 280 it is possible that they would not have the strength to flare it. Did you consider that?

I personally have never jumped anything bigger than the 200 I started on.


petejones45  (C License)

Nov 22, 2010, 10:11 AM
Post #17 of 57 (1482 views)
Shortcut
Re: [matthewcline] Student CYPRES limitations [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
You can get a student cypres to fire under a Manta if you push it hard enough. However, normal student maneuvers (90 degree turns to land) will likely not cause trouble.

i'm sure that would require manuevers that a student would most defenatly not do: crank the toggle to feet, front riser spirals(large amount of strengh would be required for that) etc etc

In reply to:
In reply to:
Well... just for your information... at our dropzone we use Navigator 200's, 220's, 240's and 260's. We have nothing smaller than a 200 for students and nothing larger than a 260. What we allow the student to jump solely depends on their weight and previous canopy control.

Well... just for your information... you don't represent every dropzone buddy Wink



There are Students who have done those exact things, just "cause" or they had a conversation with some one at the Bon Fire , read it online etc, etc.

There are very few Drop Zones that do not have at least a small assortment of student gear with different sized mains. In my experience I have not seen a DZ yet with only one size Student Main.

Matt

I stated that in my first post


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Nov 22, 2010, 10:12 AM
Post #18 of 57 (1480 views)
Shortcut
Re: [petejones45] Student CYPRES limitations [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I have seen hundreds of students jump and not one has been able to do a fully front riser spiral or crank the toggle so hard that they fire a student cypres

Well then your Profiles Experience is not matching your Real Experience, hence the responses your getting.

I have seen Cat B and C students spiral with the Fronts.

I have even seen a Cat A Flare the Rears, fronts, not flare at all.

Point being, if you can think it up, a student can think up more and do it!

Matt


petejones45  (C License)

Nov 22, 2010, 10:13 AM
Post #19 of 57 (1478 views)
Shortcut
Re: [DocPop] Student CYPRES limitations [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:

ok what size would you put them out on? ask anywhere and 280's are pretty much the standard for first jump students

Personally, not being an instructor, I wouldn't make any canopy recommendations for students - and I suggest you do the same. However, the appropriate size canopy for a first jump student depends on their bodyweight. If you were to put a 100lb girl on a 280 it is possible that they would not have the strength to flare it. Did you consider that?

I personally have never jumped anything bigger than the 200 I started on.

I never made any recommendations just stated observations


petejones45  (C License)

Nov 22, 2010, 10:14 AM
Post #20 of 57 (1476 views)
Shortcut
Re: [matthewcline] Student CYPRES limitations [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I have seen hundreds of students jump and not one has been able to do a fully front riser spiral or crank the toggle so hard that they fire a student cypres

Well then your Profiles Experience is not matching your Real Experience, hence the responses your getting.

I have seen Cat B and C students spiral with the Fronts.

I have even seen a Cat A Flare the Rears, fronts, not flare at all.

Point being, if you can think it up, a student can think up more and do it!

Quote:
I have seen Cat B and C students spiral with the Fronts.

on a 280?

Matt


DocPop  (C License)

Nov 22, 2010, 10:14 AM
Post #21 of 57 (1477 views)
Shortcut
Re: [petejones45] Student CYPRES limitations [In reply to] Can't Post

And I am telling you that your "observations" are wrong in this case.


petejones45  (C License)

Nov 22, 2010, 10:17 AM
Post #22 of 57 (1467 views)
Shortcut
Re: [DocPop] Student CYPRES limitations [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
And I am telling you that your "observations" are wrong in this case.

you are telling me that something i've witnessed and saw with me own eyes is a fabrication of truth and reality? hypotheticaly That would be like me telling you that you have a small john thomas without actually seeing it, only you would know the truth


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Nov 22, 2010, 10:20 AM
Post #23 of 57 (1463 views)
Shortcut
Re: [petejones45] Student CYPRES limitations [In reply to] Can't Post

As well as on larger and smaller canopies.

Matt


DocPop  (C License)

Nov 22, 2010, 10:21 AM
Post #24 of 57 (1462 views)
Shortcut
Re: [petejones45] Student CYPRES limitations [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
ask anywhere and 280's are pretty much the standard for first jump students

Ok, name 10 dropzones where they have told you they only use 280s for first jump students.

If it is really true that you can "ask anywhere" and get this answer you should have no trouble with this task.


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Nov 22, 2010, 10:21 AM
Post #25 of 57 (1460 views)
Shortcut
Re: [petejones45] Student CYPRES limitations [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
And I am telling you that your "observations" are wrong in this case.

you are telling me that something i've witnessed and saw with me own eyes is a fabrication of truth and reality? hypotheticaly That would be like me telling you that you have a small john thomas without actually seeing it, only you would know the truth

AH HA! Right to the "my dick is bigger than your dick!" argument!

Crazy

Matt


First page Previous page 1 2 3 Next page Last page  View All

Forums : Skydiving : Safety and Training

 


Search for (options)