Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
hanging harness

 

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aerialcameraman  (D 27629)

Nov 12, 2010, 9:03 AM
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hanging harness Can't Post

Does anyone have pictures of a hanging harness that as the student cuts away the drop and inch or so.


pilotdave  (D License)

Nov 12, 2010, 9:56 AM
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Re: [aerialcameraman] hanging harness [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm sure I'll get in trouble for posting such a beautiful picture, but here's one that gives the basic concept of how it's built.

Dave
Attachments: hanging harness cutaway.jpg (147 KB)


petejones45  (C License)

Nov 12, 2010, 11:58 AM
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Re: [pilotdave] hanging harness [In reply to] Can't Post

id be embarrassed if i was her instructor and let this picture out while she is messing up eps


Premier NWFlyer  (D License)

Nov 12, 2010, 12:20 PM
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Re: [petejones45] hanging harness [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
id be embarrassed if i was her instructor and let this picture out while she is messing up eps

No one said she's a student.

What would you be doing differently?


Andrewwhyte  (C 1988)

Nov 12, 2010, 12:28 PM
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Re: [petejones45] hanging harness [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
id be embarrassed if i was her instructor and let this picture out while she is messing up eps
I presume you mean the position of her left hand. If she was taught to use both hands on the cut-away she could easily be transitioning from hands on the cutaway to hands on the reserve. Not the way I teach but still not wrong.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Nov 12, 2010, 12:29 PM
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Re: [petejones45] hanging harness [In reply to] Can't Post

Some schools teach students to completely strip cutaway cables before shifting eyes ad hands to reserve ripcord.


pilotdave  (D License)

Nov 12, 2010, 1:07 PM
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Re: [petejones45] hanging harness [In reply to] Can't Post

It was safety day and she's an experienced skydiver. She can do whatever she wants. Tongue

But why would an instructor be embarrased at a student messing up anyway? Should the instructor be afraid someone might think he's teaching it wrong? Most students do mess it up... at first. Smile

Dave


erdnarob  (D 364)

Nov 12, 2010, 2:16 PM
Post #8 of 68 (2052 views)
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Re: [aerialcameraman] hanging harness [In reply to] Can't Post

Not quite, mine is designed to fall on a mattress after cutting away. Something more realistic and easy to make.


petejones45  (C License)

Nov 12, 2010, 4:35 PM
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Re: [riggerrob] hanging harness [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Some schools teach students to completely strip cutaway cables before shifting eyes ad hands to reserve ripcord.

that seems like it would be alot of wasted time, i beleive you should keep one hand on the chop pilliow and one on the reserve handle.


Beatnik  (D 1051)

Nov 12, 2010, 4:44 PM
Post #10 of 68 (2002 views)
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Re: [petejones45] hanging harness [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
that seems like it would be alot of wasted time, i beleive you should keep one hand on the chop pilliow and one on the reserve handle.

There are reasons for all of this and instead of always jumping the gun and saying things, you should try to learn and ask questions. Just my observation from your posts.

Not saying with which way I train students or prefer but making sure that the canopy is cutaway, especially in cases where it could be hard to cutaway (e.g. spinning mals) before moving to the reserve would be a good thing. Having each hand on a separate handle and not being able to pull them doesn't do you a lot of good. This is just an example of why you could want to use this method.


petejones45  (C License)

Nov 12, 2010, 5:13 PM
Post #11 of 68 (1985 views)
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Re: [Beatnik] hanging harness [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
There are reasons for all of this and instead of always jumping the gun and saying things, you should try to learn and ask questions. Just my observation from your posts.

Not saying with which way I train students or prefer but making sure that the canopy is cutaway, especially in cases where it could be hard to cutaway (e.g. spinning mals) before moving to the reserve would be a good thing. Having each hand on a separate handle and not being able to pull them doesn't do you a lot of good. This is just an example of why you could want to use this method.

in the event of a spinning mal, more nylon out is better than none. even if the cutaway cable is all the way out and the main stays with you, its better to fire the reserve and hope :)


Andy9o8  (D License)

Nov 12, 2010, 6:50 PM
Post #12 of 68 (1939 views)
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Re: [petejones45] hanging harness [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
There are reasons for all of this and instead of always jumping the gun and saying things, you should try to learn and ask questions. Just my observation from your posts.

Not saying with which way I train students or prefer but making sure that the canopy is cutaway, especially in cases where it could be hard to cutaway (e.g. spinning mals) before moving to the reserve would be a good thing. Having each hand on a separate handle and not being able to pull them doesn't do you a lot of good. This is just an example of why you could want to use this method.

in the event of a spinning mal, more nylon out is better than none. even if the cutaway cable is all the way out and the main stays with you, its better to fire the reserve and hope :)

There are many instructors at many DZs with hundreds or thousands of jumps who believe otherwise, and thus teach this method to reduce the risk of a main/reserve entanglement.

The discussion is important, as is your participation in it, and as is your actively analyzing the issues for yourself. But experience - or lack of it - do have relevance to the discussion. May I suggest that someone with under 100 jumps and 1 year in the sport is probably best served (and best received) by approaching the discussion mainly with probing questions, an open mind and a listening ear.


(This post was edited by Andy9o8 on Nov 12, 2010, 6:51 PM)


petejones45  (C License)

Nov 12, 2010, 7:27 PM
Post #13 of 68 (1927 views)
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Re: [Andy9o8] hanging harness [In reply to] Can't Post

you are true but hypothetically if a person with under a hundred jumps has two cutaways and a person with a thousand only has 1 or less, wouldn't the more exeperienced person have a better input with dealing with mals


Beatnik  (D 1051)

Nov 12, 2010, 7:45 PM
Post #14 of 68 (1923 views)
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Re: [petejones45] hanging harness [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
in the event of a spinning mal, more nylon out is better than none. even if the cutaway cable is all the way out and the main stays with you, its better to fire the reserve and hope :)

Again, I think you should ask more questions rather than coming up with situations that don't really represent what is being said. Listening to people who have been in the sport will do more than challenging them.

As for your theory, it doesn't really have anything to do with what I mentioned before. Again the idea of using two hands was if there is a tough pull and you couldn't get the handle all the way out. Then you do the same with the other handle. I think you missed the point of what was being said because it doesn't address what I posted previously and has some new situation that isn't relevant.


Beatnik  (D 1051)

Nov 12, 2010, 7:55 PM
Post #15 of 68 (1921 views)
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Re: [petejones45] hanging harness [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
you are true but hypothetically if a person with under a hundred jumps has two cutaways and a person with a thousand only has 1 or less, wouldn't the more exeperienced person have a better input with dealing with mals

How would you know how many cutaways another person has especially on the internet? It is probably better not to assume. I am not sure how many cutaways you have but if this reply has to do with the posts between you and I, I can almost say for certain that I have more experience than you in this area.

To answer your question it would depend on a lot of things more than just the number of cutaways. If the person had two cutaways in the single digit jump numbers the information they have may not be as accurate as someone who had one cutaway at higher numbers who is able to recall more information and is more experienced with jumping. There is more to it than your analysis of it.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Nov 12, 2010, 8:53 PM
Post #16 of 68 (1910 views)
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Re: [petejones45] hanging harness [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Some schools teach students to completely strip cutaway cables before shifting eyes ad hands to reserve ripcord.

that seems like it would be alot of wasted time, i beleive you should keep one hand on the chop pilliow and one on the reserve handle.

....................................................................

Back in 1984, one of my students almost died because he did not do a "full-pull" on an S.O.S. handle.

Australians learned the same lesson, five years earlier ... the bloody way.

That is why many schools teach stripping both cutaway cables before shifting eyes and hands to the reserve ripcord handle.

Smart skydivers learn from the mistakes of others, because they will never live long enough to survive learning all those lessons the hard way.

Rob Warner
5 solo reserve rides and I quit counting after 20 tandem reserve rides.


(This post was edited by riggerrob on Nov 12, 2010, 8:59 PM)


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Nov 12, 2010, 10:21 PM
Post #17 of 68 (1892 views)
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Re: [petejones45] hanging harness [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
you are true but hypothetically if a person with under a hundred jumps has two cutaways and a person with a thousand only has 1 or less, wouldn't the more exeperienced person have a better input with dealing with mals

In a word...No.


petejones45  (C License)

Nov 12, 2010, 11:23 PM
Post #18 of 68 (1884 views)
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Re: [Beatnik] hanging harness [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
How would you know how many cutaways another person has especially on the internet? It is probably better not to assume. I am not sure how many cutaways you have but if this reply has to do with the posts between you and I, I can almost say for certain that I have more experience than you in this area.

To answer your question it would depend on a lot of things more than just the number of cutaways. If the person had two cutaways in the single digit jump numbers the information they have may not be as accurate as someone who had one cutaway at higher numbers who is able to recall more information and is more experienced with jumping. There is more to it than your analysis of it.

if you would've actually read my post it was a hypothetical question, i wasn't judging your experience over mine....

you being condescending to me is going to do nothing but put a red flag to anyone reading this form


Slurp56

Nov 13, 2010, 1:42 AM
Post #19 of 68 (1868 views)
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Re: [petejones45] hanging harness [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
There are reasons for all of this and instead of always jumping the gun and saying things, you should try to learn and ask questions. Just my observation from your posts.

Not saying with which way I train students or prefer but making sure that the canopy is cutaway, especially in cases where it could be hard to cutaway (e.g. spinning mals) before moving to the reserve would be a good thing. Having each hand on a separate handle and not being able to pull them doesn't do you a lot of good. This is just an example of why you could want to use this method.

in the event of a spinning mal, more nylon out is better than none. even if the cutaway cable is all the way out and the main stays with you, its better to fire the reserve and hope :)

Pete, you exhibit the personality of a very new and very eager jumper. I understand your mentality, it's probably just as you were taught in your first jump course. However, as time goes by, you will start to understand situations more and make the realization that it is not always a black and white decision process.

Sure, I can think of situations where your statement is correct, but I can also think of situations where its not. There is a time to handle malfunctions and there is a time to just get fabric over your head. How you deduced the proper course of action based off a photo of someone in a training harness is beyond me.

The only person in this thread with a red flag over their head is you. Try to do a bit more learning before offering up advice. Other new jumpers are probably reading this thread, trying to absorb as much information as they can, and to be honest, you aren't the best example to follow.

It's not about being right. It's about being safe.


timmyfitz  (D License)

Nov 13, 2010, 5:18 AM
Post #20 of 68 (1847 views)
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Re: [petejones45] hanging harness [In reply to] Can't Post

I always get a chuckle about your "advise". Laugh


jimmytavino  (A 3914)

Nov 13, 2010, 5:33 AM
Post #21 of 68 (1844 views)
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Re: [pilotdave] hanging harness [In reply to] Can't Post

there you go Dave...
try to help out and post a sensible and thread worthy picture in an effort to answer a question.....
and sometimes, people need to turn it into a "demonstration" of what they THINK they know...... and of how they are more knowledgeable about a subject, ( which has many layers of complexity ) than maybe they really are....

what we really needed... was the Complete VIDEO!!!!! of that practice cutaway..!!!

hahahah

petejones.....
The lesson here,, just MAY be....
Follow all the teachings and recommendations of YOUR intructors... and do things as YOU were taught.... but stop short of insisting that alllll others need to follow those same guidelines...
What i might Do.. is On ME... and is based on many MANY considerations which some never even THINK about...
PUll PULL!!????
bang bang....??? NOt always...Unimpressed
i'm sure... that i do NOT wanna simply get as much fabric OUT as i can... unless, i am super down & dirty, and have encounterd a horseshoe
but you may do as you choose...

If you pull at a decent altitude and are Gear saavy you should be able to cutaway a Mal.. And get the reserve out with plenty of altitude to spare..
BUT if you go.. Yank YANK!!! REAL quick.. AND if the Main does NOT separate.. cause you didn't pull the cables FAR enough...
Now you have upwards of 2000 feet to "figure out" what to do...and sometimes THAT sorta scenario ( your main & reserve Dancing with each other...) MAY NOT be fixable....even IF you follow through and get the cables completely extracted...Unsure in fact That could mess things Up,,, even worse!!!

the first step in dealing with a mal,,,,, would be to Completely LOSE the main...
a weak One handed tug on the cutaway pillow, may or may not accomplish that...
jt
A 3914
D 12122


Beatnik  (D 1051)

Nov 13, 2010, 5:45 AM
Post #22 of 68 (1838 views)
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Re: [petejones45] hanging harness [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In Reply To
How would you know how many cutaways another person has especially on the internet? It is probably better not to assume. I am not sure how many cutaways you have but if this reply has to do with the posts between you and I, I can almost say for certain that I have more experience than you in this area.

To answer your question it would depend on a lot of things more than just the number of cutaways. If the person had two cutaways in the single digit jump numbers the information they have may not be as accurate as someone who had one cutaway at higher numbers who is able to recall more information and is more experienced with jumping. There is more to it than your analysis of it.

if you would've actually read my post it was a hypothetical question, i wasn't judging your experience over mine....

you being condescending to me is going to do nothing but put a red flag to anyone reading this form

Are you able to comprehend what others post? I don't think you are because all of your replies try to misdirect people. I read your reply and if you would read mine, I gave a possible answer and didn't assume that you were directly judging. But on the chance you were, there was an answer. Please read the posts and think about your replies. Some people are actually trying to help you and all you can do is get into some argument trying to prove that you are better than everyone. But misdirecting any reply doesn't do anything. You end up just making people go around in circles.

There are many people with a lot of knowledge on this site and trying to top them every chance you get will rob you of many valuable chances to learn. Again, please read and think about what you are posting.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Nov 13, 2010, 1:14 PM
Post #23 of 68 (1789 views)
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Re: [petejones45] hanging harness [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
id be embarrassed if i was her instructor and let this picture out while she is messing up eps

....................................................................

Sorry, but I do not understand what is wrong with her procedures. She has pulled her cutaway handle far enough to release her main, is looking towards her reserve ripcord.
She was half-way through emergency procedures when the photo was snapped.
Her next step will be to grab and pull her reserve ripcord.

What is wrong with that??????

Rob Warner
FAA Master Rigger
Storng Tandem Examiner
survivor of more than 20 reserve rides.


airtwardo  (D License)

Nov 13, 2010, 1:36 PM
Post #24 of 68 (1778 views)
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Re: [petejones45] hanging harness [In reply to] Can't Post

 
in the event of a spinning mal, more nylon out is better than none. even if the cutaway cable is all the way out and the main stays with you, its better to fire the reserve and hope :)
THAT'S really BAD advise. Crazy

No offence intended, but until YOU are a well qualified and current INSTRUCTOR, please do yourself and the sport a favor and refrain from giving instructional advise.


erdnarob  (D 364)

Nov 13, 2010, 1:46 PM
Post #25 of 68 (1775 views)
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Re: [petejones45] hanging harness [In reply to] Can't Post

in the event of a spinning mal, more nylon out is better than none

A cut away done in the proper sequence, spinning mal or not, is way better than just more nylon approach. I made 4 cutaways and had two totals (couldn't find the main handle).
A yearly practice in a suspended harness will reinforce your memory muscles and brain and makes you more ready for the possible real cutaway. If you don't do that, expect to get big surprises at a time you don't want any of them. At my DZ we ask the students to look at and grab with two hands the cut away handle, then while pulling it to keep eye contact with the reserve ripcord handle to finally grab with two hands this silver handle. All happens suddenly and even a normal force to pull the handles can seem hard to do when not prepared.


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