Forums: Skydiving: Incidents:
Near Miss Incident DZ Teuge, The Netherlands 7th November 2010

 

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Skyper

Nov 7, 2010, 11:44 AM
Post #1 of 28 (3043 views)
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     Near Miss Incident DZ Teuge, The Netherlands 7th November 2010  

at the moment that incident took place there were at least 10 ppl in the plane - Cessna C208B Grand Caravan. Altitude - 12.000ft

First the camera man steped out. He was standing between the door and rear wing of the plane and supposed to make a video of a 4-way run. Than two more guys came hanging on the outside of the door. Between those two guys and the camera man the third guy walked to the door and than turned. While turning he brushed the edge of the door with his rig. At this very moment the PC of his reserve popped out(!)

The PC flew stright to camera man and bounced from him. The PC pulled the lines (line strech) and draged the third guy out of the plane. He brushed the camera man who remained attached to the plane. The plane made a hard and sudden turn to left since the aerodynamics of the plane was disordered.

It is unclear if any part of the chute or the third guy were attached to rear wing for a while. Anyway he flew like a rocket out of the plane and above the rare wing. There is also a video footage of this event made by camera man.

this is the second hand story so please excuse me if some details are not 100% correct.


(This post was edited by Skyper on Nov 7, 2010, 12:36 PM)


skyrider  (D 14710)

Nov 7, 2010, 11:49 AM
Post #2 of 28 (3015 views)
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     Re: [Skyper] Near Miss Incident DZ Teuge, The Netherlands 7th November 2010 [In reply to]  

In reply to:
at the moment that incident took place there were at least 10 ppl in the plane - Cessna C208B Grand Caravan. Altitude - 12.000ft

First the camera man steped out. He was standing between the door and rare wing of the plane and supposed to make a video of a 4-way run. Than two more guys came hanging on the outside of the door. Between those two guys and the camera man the third guy walked to the door and than turned. While turning he brushed the edge of the door with his rig. At this very moment the PC of his reserve popped out(!)

The PC flew stright to camera man and bounced from him. The PC pulled the lines (line strech) and draged the third guy out of the plane. He brushed the camera man who remained attached to the plane. The plane made a hard and sudden turn to left since the aerodynamics of the plane was disordered.

It is unclear if any part of the chute or the third guy were attached to rare wing for a while. Anyway he flew like a rocket out of the plane and above the rare wing. There is also a video footage of this event made by camera man.

this is the second hand story so please excuse me if some details are not 100% correct.

I gotta see that clip..

BUT..."flew above the wing?????That means a plane in a very serious dive....that makes no senseUnsure


skyrider  (D 14710)

Nov 7, 2010, 11:51 AM
Post #3 of 28 (3011 views)
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     Re: [Skyper] Near Miss Incident DZ Teuge, The Netherlands 7th November 2010 [In reply to]  

BTW, by wing I am taking for granted you mean rear stabalizers!(correct?)


Skyper

Nov 7, 2010, 11:51 AM
Post #4 of 28 (3010 views)
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     Re: [skyrider] Near Miss Incident DZ Teuge, The Netherlands 7th November 2010 [In reply to]  

yes, that part about flying abowe the wing was strange to me as well. But that is what I heard from one of the guys who were on the door.

yes indeed, I mean rear stablizer wing.


(This post was edited by Skyper on Nov 7, 2010, 12:37 PM)


airdvr  (D 10977)

Nov 7, 2010, 12:40 PM
Post #5 of 28 (2911 views)
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     Re: [skyrider] Near Miss Incident DZ Teuge, The Netherlands 7th November 2010 [In reply to]  

I would think it would require a nose high attitude to go above the rear stabilizer.


Skyper

Nov 7, 2010, 12:52 PM
Post #6 of 28 (2885 views)
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     Re: [airdvr] Near Miss Incident DZ Teuge, The Netherlands 7th November 2010 [In reply to]  

I suppose at the moment they saw PC popping out the only direction they were looking at was "as far as possible from the plane" so they didn't really saw the exact direction he has been flying to.

If I get that video footage I'll let you guys know.






Rover  (D 241)

Nov 7, 2010, 2:38 PM
Post #9 of 28 (2679 views)
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     Re: [skyrider] Near Miss Incident DZ Teuge, The Netherlands 7th November 2010 [In reply to]  

I've seen vid footage where a student experienced a static line hangup and deployed his reserve. It deployed under the elevator but as it opened jumper appeared higher than the aircraft. I guess the forward speed of the aircraft translated into the canopy intially climbing in the relative wind caused by the forward motion of the aircraft.


Trae  (Student)

Nov 7, 2010, 5:35 PM
Post #10 of 28 (2458 views)
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     Re: [airdvr] Near Miss Incident DZ Teuge, The Netherlands 7th November 2010 [In reply to]  

in reply to "I would think it would require a nose high attitude to go above the rear stabilizer. "
...........................................

Not necessarily.

As there were people already outside there would have been a large burble and that reserve pilot chute could easily have gone over the tailplane.

Luckily this time there was no hang-up.
This could easily have ended with a wrecked aircraft and loss of life.

The relatively low tailplane (horizontal stabiliser) on the Caravan makes these aircraft particularly susceptible to strikes.

Nice aircraft but when this type of premature opening happens they are very vulnerable.

Lucky lucky
Angelic




Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Nov 7, 2010, 7:34 PM
Post #12 of 28 (2316 views)
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     Re: [airdvr] Near Miss Incident DZ Teuge, The Netherlands 7th November 2010 [In reply to]  

>I would think it would require a nose high attitude to go above the rear
>stabilizer.

It is common for deploying parachutes to go over the tail. I've seen this happen on Otters, King Airs and Cessna 182's.


alfredkoster  (D License)

Nov 8, 2010, 12:29 AM
Post #13 of 28 (2158 views)
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     Re: [Skyper] Near Miss Incident DZ Teuge, The Netherlands 7th November 2010 [In reply to]  

The FS 4-way was going to exit a satellite (O). The guy with the reserve was the Inside center in this formation and was trying to do a head-jam in the door while holding the grips of the person at the Point position. He lost his fullface helmet while he was pulled out.

I was in the plane being the jumpmaster of 5 students and going to perform a FS jump with my wife.


(This post was edited by alfredkoster on Nov 8, 2010, 12:47 AM)


DoZ3r  (D License)

Nov 8, 2010, 12:53 AM
Post #14 of 28 (2139 views)
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     Re: [Skyper] Near Miss Incident DZ Teuge, The Netherlands 7th November 2010 [In reply to]  

Being the camera man on this jump i guess i can come with what i saw...
From what i can see on my video, and what i saw in the door, it was during his climb-out that the top of the door pushed the pincover and pin out...
The reserve pilot chute launched up, hitting my camera (i saw that while watching the video...) The freedag with canopy (i think) hit me in the chest during launch, and then within a second or two the jumper got pulled away...
Jumper and canopy both made it over the stabilizor... On the video it is also visible to see the reserve hanging, when i look backwards... Sorry if my describtion is a bit messy here, but just writing it down makes me shake..
The video is not online at this moment... And my internet connection at home is not good enought to upload anything... Ehm, i guess that is my two cents at this moment...


alfredkoster  (D License)

Nov 8, 2010, 1:11 AM
Post #15 of 28 (2124 views)
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     Re: [DoZ3r] Near Miss Incident DZ Teuge, The Netherlands 7th November 2010 [In reply to]  

Can't wait to see the video again, in slow motion this time...

I 'm glad everybody walked away from this Angelic .


koppel  (F License)

Nov 8, 2010, 3:09 AM
Post #16 of 28 (2051 views)
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     Re: [alfredkoster] Near Miss Incident DZ Teuge, The Netherlands 7th November 2010 [In reply to]  

 
Quote:
The guy with the reserve was the Inside center in this formation and was trying to do a head-jam in the door


This has caused fatalities before...

http://www.atsb.gov.au/...air200101903_001.pdf


skyrider  (D 14710)

Nov 8, 2010, 4:10 AM
Post #17 of 28 (2006 views)
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     Re: [airdvr] Near Miss Incident DZ Teuge, The Netherlands 7th November 2010 [In reply to]  

In reply to:
I would think it would require a nose high attitude to go above the rear stabilizer.

probably right, "pre stall" maybe?


Premier skydiverek  (C 41769)

Nov 8, 2010, 4:20 AM
Post #18 of 28 (1996 views)
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     Re: [koppel] Near Miss Incident DZ Teuge, The Netherlands 7th November 2010 [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Quote:
The guy with the reserve was the Inside center in this formation and was trying to do a head-jam in the door

This has caused fatalities before...

http://www.atsb.gov.au/...air200101903_001.pdf

And here is the actual recording of this accident:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCyt-sIMym0

Frown



pchapman  (D 1014)

Nov 8, 2010, 6:07 AM
Post #19 of 28 (1846 views)
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     Re: [DoZ3r] Near Miss Incident DZ Teuge, The Netherlands 7th November 2010 [In reply to]  

The obvious question: What model of rig?
That'll determine what people think of this incident...


alfredkoster  (D License)

Nov 8, 2010, 6:34 AM
Post #20 of 28 (1792 views)
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     Re: [pchapman] Near Miss Incident DZ Teuge, The Netherlands 7th November 2010 [In reply to]  

He had an Atom from Parachutes de France.


Premier Remster  (C License)

Nov 8, 2010, 6:41 AM
Post #21 of 28 (1780 views)
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     Re: [alfredkoster] Near Miss Incident DZ Teuge, The Netherlands 7th November 2010 [In reply to]  

Quote:
The guy with the reserve was the Inside center in this formation

You probably meant Outside Center, right?


alfredkoster  (D License)

Nov 8, 2010, 7:10 AM
Post #22 of 28 (1721 views)
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     Re: [Remster] Near Miss Incident DZ Teuge, The Netherlands 7th November 2010 [In reply to]  

As an Inside Center, he was standing outside the door this time because they were going to exit a satellite.

You can exit this figure in more than one way from a Cessna Caravan. This is how they did it, which is quite common: Outside Center, Tail and Inside Center are outside the door and Point is the only one inside the door. Outside Center (in the front of the door) is holding the bar with both hands, Tail (in the middle of the door) has has a leg grip with his left hand on Outside Center and is holding the bar with his right hand (or has a head jam and a right hand grip on Outside Centers right arm). Inside Center (at the back of the door) has a head jam and an arm and a leg grip on Point. Point has arm grips on the Outside Center.


Premier Remster  (C License)

Nov 8, 2010, 7:22 AM
Post #23 of 28 (1697 views)
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     Re: [alfredkoster] Near Miss Incident DZ Teuge, The Netherlands 7th November 2010 [In reply to]  

Thanks. I was more familiar with the OC and T outside, and the IC and P inside.


Skyper

Nov 8, 2010, 9:39 AM
Post #24 of 28 (1552 views)
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     Re: [pchapman] Near Miss Incident DZ Teuge, The Netherlands 7th November 2010 [In reply to]  

In reply to:
The obvious question: What model of rig?
That'll determine what people think of this incident...

Few more important details:

The guy in question has had "a minor issues" with his rig prior the entering the plane...

In the plane just few moments before he went to the door for the jump he had "issue with the rig" again! And he let someone else in the plain fix that for him. After the job was fixed he went to the door...


BMFin

Nov 8, 2010, 10:21 AM
Post #25 of 28 (1471 views)
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     Re: [Skyper] Near Miss Incident DZ Teuge, The Netherlands 7th November 2010 [In reply to]  

Im glad this incident was only a near miss. The potential outcome could have been disasterous like it was in the Australian accident mentioned in this thread. Amazing story how the pilot survived...

This is one of the reasons I prefer the reserve pillow(together with an AAD) over the D handle.

Both designs have their pros&cons, but the risks of the D-handle seem so much more severe. (plus an AAD will eliminate most of the risks of the pillow)


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