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First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too

 

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skyflower_bloom  (A 59229)

Oct 31, 2010, 8:48 PM
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First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too Can't Post

So, trying to get my canopy skills (landing accuracy) figured out has been my goal lately, for my final A card sign-off. Went to do hop n pops today and went from the 240 main to the 190. Second jump of the day (1st on the 190 transition/sport main), and I had my first cutaway (and my best landing, and my A license signed off- woohoo!)

The skydive was a little screwy from the start.. I was first out and only hop n pop on load, and I had the "go" idiots hollering a bit and freaking me out in the door.. that said I realize I need to get over it and not let other people's comments or issues mess with my focus on a jump.

But I did let it get to me, rushed out, and I immediately tumbled the exit. I did get onto belly fairly immediately to pull, but it was not the most ideal deployment position which could surely have contributed.

Opened into a brisk spin to the right, and immediately checked the brakes/toggles- sure enough, they were either stowed really funky/unequally, or there had been a brake fire. The left one was also wrapped around itself a bit, but not to the point I couldn't get it fixed- not knotted or anything, at least where I could see and access it.

I got the toggle situation figured out, but the canopy was still pitching a little bit and not responding, and upon another visual inspection I realized that there was something off/twisty with a line over another line on the left side- not wrapped around the whole canopy like around top to bottom and back, but caught up on some of the fabric somehow.

I did do a quick pull to try to pressurize it (also had a closed end cell or two, though looking back it could have just looked that way because it was part of the weird entanglement/possible brake line over, from what others have deduced. There was clearly no response attempting to pressurize the canopy and inflate all the cells that way) but yeah, it was not responding in any sort of a normal way, and with the slight spin still going on, though much less rapid after I fixed the brake fire, was definitely not at all land-able, so I wasn't going to waste any more time.

I had looked at alti when I first opened into the start of the spin, the point where when I noticed a not quite square or stable/canopy, and was around 3500 (exit a bit over 4k), so I guess by the time I fixed the brake issue, analyzed the lines/canopy, and took a couple seconds to mentally prepare myself for a cutaway and double check my handle locations, I was at 3k ft exactly when I decided/started to initiate EPs.

Honestly all I have to say is that you can never touch and look at those three handles enough times- it may save your life. I am eternally grateful I was trained in the habit of touching my handles in the order of use multiple times pre-boarding and on plane, and to visually locate where and how they shift.

Also, it was not how I expected my first cutaway to be. I don't know how to explain it, it just felt different. I guess I worried I would screw something up, but more than that, it was just easier in a way- the pull force needed was not as much as I expected, it went smoothly, and there was a canopy over my head. The rsl coulda beat me though; I didn't really think about it..

But for all the newer jumpers like me, just know that practicing and discussing EPs will make life a hell of a lot easier and less scary one day (it was still a bit scary though haha! more of in shock for a bit I guess, a "holy shit" moment.. you know you are probably safe, but that moment you have to choose the course of action is INTENSE) Just know that it is totally do-able.

I actually found it hilarious that my final landing goal and A card accomplishment was completed on my first reserve ride. It's actually really comforting to know how well the system works (gear and training program), that one has the presence of mind to deal with it appropriately when it does happen. I owe a lotta beer from this weekend I know lol.. Thanks to the amazing staff at SK for supporting me when the going got tough and for continuing to work with me.

Anyway, mostly just sharing my story with newer/student jumpers and well as the experienced folk (ok, and bragging a little that I FINALLY managed my license after 30 jumps! and managed to successfully live another day!) but would be more than happy to hear others' thoughts on their first cutaways, or any analysis of things I may not yet have talked or thought about in the cutaway situation.. thanks!!

------ oh, and..
I do honestly wonder with the line over (they believe it was a steering line, since the initial issues and spin were linked to the brakes, at least that was the impression I got) --I wonder though if it was mainly body position (obviously couldn't impact the toggles being stowed or a brake fire, but the line over, if that is what the mal was, which seems likely) or if that's irrelevant.

i.e. if I had the presence of mind to address the brake fire and hang up, & to stop the spiral, which I did, with plenty of altitude left, would it likely have been fine then? I do realize that we will never know for sure, and I certainly don't need Monday morning QBing brought down upon myself, but I am just curious about that particular situation..

I had just flipped to my belly from tuble/back to side to belly, so while I *was* in the *basic* appropriate position with arms up in an arch and belly to earth, I did not yet have that stable "riding the air cushion" effect and was rocking a bit (and still on the hill, which didn't help). idk,

blue ones, peace out~
R


(This post was edited by skyflower_bloom on Oct 31, 2010, 11:02 PM)


Psychonaut  (C License)

Oct 31, 2010, 10:48 PM
Post #2 of 76 (2728 views)
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Re: [skyflower_bloom] First Cutaway jump 30, and perseverance in the sport (long post haha) [In reply to] Can't Post

Oh my god please tl;dr Crazy


skyflower_bloom  (A 59229)

Oct 31, 2010, 11:00 PM
Post #3 of 76 (2721 views)
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Re: [Psychonaut] First Cutaway jump 30, and perseverance in the sport (long post haha) [In reply to] Can't Post

haha i don't know what that means but i think we crossed posts. i am a writer. i have to write long stream of consciousness shit and edit it down. i do what works for me. can you handle the above version? cause that's about all you're gonna be able to get outta me right now.

maybe a "glad you aren't dead" would be in order instead of a sad mean little squiggle face Crazy

TongueTongue


ridestrong  (C 38471)

Oct 31, 2010, 11:26 PM
Post #4 of 76 (2708 views)
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Re: [skyflower_bloom] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

Summary:

-Jump #30, hop & pop from ~4,500'
-Possible line-over or caught-up brake line on canopy
-EP's to cutaway with RSL at ~3,000'
-no injury
-got 'A' license

---

Glad your not dead, and congrats on your 'A'! Wink


trig78  (B License)

Oct 31, 2010, 11:26 PM
Post #5 of 76 (2706 views)
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Re: [skyflower_bloom] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

I didn't actually read it all the way to the end but Congrats on a good save Cool You're alive and well and that's what counts Wink Blue skies


pilotdave  (D License)

Nov 1, 2010, 5:06 AM
Post #6 of 76 (2655 views)
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Re: [skyflower_bloom] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

Didn't quite make it through either, but noticed something important. On your new rig, the reserve ripcord WILL come all the way out. It is not meant to prevent you from losing it. Make sure to always clear your cables and feel free to throw your handles.

Nice job.

Dave


normiss  (D 28356)

Nov 1, 2010, 7:58 AM
Post #7 of 76 (2562 views)
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Re: [pilotdave] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

Anyone ever hear of a reserve ripcord causing damage upon landing?

I've seen/heard a cutaway handle (pillow) land on the top of a hangar and it left a surprising dent.
Shocked

Good job on saving your own life Flower.

PS: I couldn't make it through the whole write up either.
Angelic


(This post was edited by normiss on Nov 1, 2010, 7:58 AM)


NovaTTT  (D 17887)

Nov 1, 2010, 8:27 AM
Post #8 of 76 (2541 views)
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Re: [skyflower_bloom] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

Don't let them dog you on this one, Robyn. Coming from you, it's a pretty concise telling. Wink

Congrats on dealing with what you had. And on earning the A license.

As far as rushing exits and not being in a good exit position - don't you remember what happens? Tongue Angelic


doughboyshred  (Student)

Nov 1, 2010, 8:31 AM
Post #9 of 76 (2538 views)
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Re: [skyflower_bloom] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

congrats on the A, and on staying calm and following your eps.


pkasdorf  (D 40)

Nov 1, 2010, 9:58 AM
Post #10 of 76 (2486 views)
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Re: [skyflower_bloom] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

"...Honestly all I have to say is that you can never touch and look at those three handles enough times- it may save your life. I am eternally grateful I was trained in the habit of touching my handles in the order of use multiple times pre-boarding and on plane, and to visually locate where and how they shift... "

How true! Congrats...


fcajump  (D 15598)

Nov 1, 2010, 10:14 AM
Post #11 of 76 (2469 views)
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Re: [skyflower_bloom] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

CONGRATS!!!Cool

Don't let these verbose-challenged folks diminish your sense of accomplishment!!! My first reserve ride was at jump 23 and I likely wrote a book about it at the time. Had a similar issue to yours a couple years ago and wrote quite a bit less. Brevity will come later.

Don't let anyone rush your exit, but you already figured that one out.

Don't spend to much time sorting (mid-air-rigging), but sounds like to didn't.

YES YOU CAN!!! Cool

BTW - that reserve ride of my at #23... without hesitation in my actions, it struck me that my reaction was disbelief that I was actually having to do this, NOT a question of what to do... so I completely understand.

JW

PS - to newer jumpers, when your reserve is due for repack, ask your rigger to let you pull the ripcord. Also look at your reserve setup while he has it open... Little things can be weird distractions... For me it was the red steering toggles (rather than yellow)... Caught myself looking at them and not being sure what they were at first Blush.


ksudiver87  (C 38895)

Nov 1, 2010, 10:33 AM
Post #12 of 76 (2452 views)
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Re: [fcajump] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

Not sure if you jump at a large DZ or a small 182 DZ..but if the place allows, try asking for a go- around when people start to Bitch :) Be the Ass Hole all skydivers try to be. Congrats on the save and ACool


skyflower_bloom  (A 59229)

Nov 1, 2010, 10:56 AM
Post #13 of 76 (2427 views)
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Re: [ksudiver87] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks guys (Nova Tongue)!! Yeah that was actually a short one for me!

Thanks for the feedback and congrats. It's good to have it over and done for the first time.

I did think about that- that the falling handle could be damaging at that speed from that height, as mentioned, but at least I knew I was the only hop n pop and pretty much right over the dz (at least that's where the main landed-- I wasn't as aware of my location as I should be when I realized I had a potential cutaway on my hands Blush) Even a soft reserve pud caused issues, huh?

Yeah I can totally relate to what you were saying, fcajump- it's almost shock/disbelief, like, you've gone over it so many times verbally, and done the motions without *actually* pulling them, that you're like, wait, I am actually needing to do this now? lol

Ksudiver87, ROFL TongueCool
It is a PAC dz, though they have a cessna running instead from-mid November to late March. I would absolutely love to ask for a go-around, in the PAC, as the only hop n pop on the (very full) load.. awesomeness. I may have to do that someday just for the hell of it! I think they'd have thrown me out though Tongue But I guess I'll be optimistic and just assume that they didn't want me to get a long spot (yeah yeah kinda hard to do on a hop n pop at 4k, with winds at less than 5... but let's just pretend)

Thanks guys!! Blue ones,
R


(This post was edited by skyflower_bloom on Nov 1, 2010, 3:08 PM)


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Nov 1, 2010, 10:59 AM
Post #14 of 76 (2424 views)
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Re: [skyflower_bloom] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

So.....Sky Knights SPC has a bunch of "Go Idiots"....good to know.

Especially good to know that it was directed at a youngster.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Nov 1, 2010, 11:12 AM
Post #15 of 76 (2414 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

FWIW, I've jumped a few times at SkyKnights and haven't yet experienced the "Go" idiots.
Overall a very nice DZ, one that is well worth the travel to get to.

Congrats to the OP for a successful emergency procedure. My first cutaway inspired a novel too.


(This post was edited by DSE on Nov 1, 2010, 11:33 AM)


ManagingPrime

Nov 1, 2010, 11:24 AM
Post #16 of 76 (2403 views)
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Re: [skyflower_bloom] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

Congrats on the A! Wink

Glad you are still here with us too!SmileSmileSmile

Question:

240 student canopy to 190 sport transition at 30 jumps?!Unsure

I went from a 220 to a 190 (just started jumping it) and it's a pretty serious transition.

Spelling.


(This post was edited by ManagingPrime on Nov 1, 2010, 11:37 AM)


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Nov 1, 2010, 11:32 AM
Post #17 of 76 (2392 views)
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Re: [skyflower_bloom] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

Good job overall.

>I do honestly wonder with the line over (they believe it was a steering line,
>since the initial issues and spin were linked to the brakes, at least that was
>the impression I got) --I wonder though if it was mainly body position

It might have contributed, but bad body position will by no means ensure a problem. I've seen horrendous body positions on SL and AFF students, and they get reasonable openings 99% of the time.

>if I had the presence of mind to address the brake fire and hang up, & to
>stop the spiral, which I did, with plenty of altitude left, would it likely have
>been fine then?

Maybe, maybe not.

If it was a "partial" lineover (i.e. brake line wrapped around just the outboard rear part of the canopy) they sometimes clear on their own or with a little pumping.

If it was a tension knot sometimes they respond to 'snapping' i.e. flaring and then releasing very, very quickly to unload the line. I've done this by flaring and then just releasing the toggle; that unloaded it enough.


Blamey  (A 56669)

Nov 1, 2010, 12:47 PM
Post #18 of 76 (2369 views)
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Re: [ManagingPrime] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

If her profile is correct 'Sabre2 190 ft (0.82 lbs/ft)" then her wing loading is pretty low and she is probably at an appropriate size canopy but I'd agree that is a big change when including the fact that the canopy type changed too.


ridestrong  (C 38471)

Nov 1, 2010, 12:56 PM
Post #19 of 76 (2360 views)
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Re: [ksudiver87] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

There's nothing wrong with with holding your exit if you have a legitimate concern or see something you don't like.... but if your holding everyone up just cause your timid, then people have the right to tell you to "GO" or get out of the way.


skycamefalling  (A 58345)

Nov 1, 2010, 1:25 PM
Post #20 of 76 (2331 views)
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Re: [skyflower_bloom] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

Someone owes someone a bottle of their choiceCool. Congrats on the first cut away and on getting your A.

Blue skies


(This post was edited by skycamefalling on Nov 1, 2010, 1:27 PM)


skyflower_bloom  (A 59229)

Nov 1, 2010, 2:44 PM
Post #21 of 76 (2286 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
So.....Sky Knights SPC has a bunch of "Go Idiots"....good to know.

Especially good to know that it was directed at a youngster.

Well, I will say that overall the amazing people FAR outweigh the idiots- but it is still not okay! I will say I switched dzs at 5 jumps and am more than happy to drive the extra thirty miles to get there.. it's worth it!

I have had two "go" experiences in the door in 30 jumps- and I agree with the poster who says there is no reason to hesitate too long in the door.. but, at risk of flaming for sharing an opinion like this at my experience level, I do think it is highly inappropriate for a jumper on student status especially, and who has experienced an injury on exit in the past, for anyone to add pressure in the door unless it is a life or death situation like pilot calling to get out NOW.

I was not just sitting on my ass either, I opened the door, looked out, and literally within 1-2 seconds, almost simultaneously, the light went yellow to green, and the shout of "go" came forth as I was crouching to exit poised (yellow had been on till then and I was looking for the airport).

But really I need to realize that people are gonna do it on occasion whether I like it or not, and I don't feel I have any authority to bitch them out over it.. it sucks, but I can only control myself, not anyone else. I guess barring a radical cultural shift in the "go go go" mindset that pops up on occasion, I just have to access that inner focus on the skydive, that others should not be able to take away from me.

Still I see it as a chain of events- the nervousness at the go and quick unstable exit could have contributed to the additional issues with the main and thus the cutaway-- but you can't over-analyze that shit to death, and I am not mad at anyone. (And no, I make NO implication that any comment made by anyone was the root cause of the cutaway- just pointing out more rhetorically how seemingly little things all add up to create situations, in any setting really not just jumping!)

Looking back I actually considered closing the door and riding the plane down to make a point LOL, but when you are put on the spot like that, it f'ing sucks. But in their defense, SK-SPC folk are some of the most passionate, helpful, and giving people I have ever met. (That said-- stfu when a student is in the door, ya'll!! Angelic)
-------------
Oh and ridestrong.. I wouldn't say I am timid in the door teehee.. though it is possible that since I am pretty new at spotting I took longer than I thought or the green came on sooner than I noticed the shift, but I don't think so.. but yeah- I can't wait to get the frick out of that plane lol.

My nerves have shifted now from exit fears, to pull/opening fears. But maybe now that I have handled that too, it'll be less nerve-wracking..


(This post was edited by skyflower_bloom on Nov 1, 2010, 3:16 PM)


ManagingPrime

Nov 1, 2010, 3:48 PM
Post #22 of 76 (2250 views)
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Re: [skyflower_bloom] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
So.....Sky Knights SPC has a bunch of "Go Idiots"....good to know.

Especially good to know that it was directed at a youngster.


But really I need to realize that people are gonna do it on occasion whether I like it or not, and I don't feel I have any authority to bitch them out over it..

No authority or bitching about it needed. Do what you need to do to make sure you are safe and throw them the old "duces" if they have a problem with it. It's your safety.

If someone feels in all their experience they don't need to properly check the spot...good for them. As time progresses you will get faster. Keep staying safe.


skyflower_bloom  (A 59229)

Nov 1, 2010, 4:02 PM
Post #23 of 76 (2237 views)
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Re: [billvon] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks billvon! Yeah I am not yet well enough educated with the mechanics of the lines and cells and all to say for sure, but we (at the dz) seem to have deduced it was a "lesser" type of line over, what you describe as a partial, with a steering line involved, because it was only a portion of the left of the canopy affected..

You are right though, we'll never really know.. body position is only one factor among many (shit, I deployed in an uncontrolled flail at about 2.5-3k on my second attempt at a L3 release dive Shocked and wound up with only a few line twists!)

I do find it interesting that it was a left side brake fire/toggle fuck-up, and also line-over issues on that left side- wonder if they played into each other (or is that an obvious question, because the tension on the lines would be different/linked during deployment.. duh lol).

It's quite possible if I played around a bit I may have been able to fix it, I guess I'll never know for sure (but, I am happy I chopped it!!) Yeah with a bit more altitude though I possibly could have gotten a bit more aggressive with it.. I think the spin and shaky feeling freaked me out, and I actually do have the opposite problem of many skydivers (I am overly conservative, not the other way around, with inputs.. still not good, but at least I don't think you'll read about me doing a low hook turn in incidents..)

I did make one single attempt to pressurize, but perhaps not as aggressively as I could have. It is possible that could have done it if I was more aggressive and kept at it; with my experience level I had no idea, but I felt that once I had tried a few things and not gotten it figured out at that point, I did not want to waste time that could (was!) used for prepping to fly a new canopy (the reserve) and getting used to flaring it, playing around with its responses, etc.. by 3k I guess i felt I had done all I was comfortable doing at my level, and didn't think it was fixable/land-able, but had it been, I could have found that out too low for my comfort! Tongue

Thanks for the insight on the situation.. are you generally wanting to use both toggles, or mostly inputs on the side that is screwy? I couldn't remember and that is a big part of why I may have been timid with an attempt to pressurize it and fix the line, because I did not want to damage the canopy or worsen the situation (though realistically, when you are on the brink of a cutaway, it's hard to "worsen" things too much haha)

------------
As for the downsize, what happened was they wanted to get me transitioned to the 210 one or two months ago, and have me on 190 or 170 by now, but I tried them on at the time and they were too loose in the legs, so I was relegated to jumping the 240 until my rig arrived.

Then we had a bunch of AFFs yesterday, and we were fighting (nicely) over the small-harnessed 240, and they said to give the 190 a try again- and it actually did fit (I don't know the deal, whether the person who tried it on with me before was mistaken about proper fit, if I didn't pull the leg straps all the way when I first tried it on? *shrug* And NO I didn't gain 30 pounds lol (I hope!) Shocked

I mean, I couldn't tighten them as much as I am used to on the 240, but it was snug/safe, no worries. I had been having major issues w/ overshooting and floating away on landings, and my rigger and instructors speculated that a big part of that was the wing loading on the student 240-- a 0.65:1

Since landing *location/accuracy* was the issue (not my ability to flare properly or safely) my instructors/mentors said they actually thought I would be safer and more successful on something a little closer to 0.9-1:1; it was just a matter of thinking (erroneously, probably because I was being a dumbass when I first tried it on) that none of the smaller mains had harnesses that could fit in the leg straps. Thus we thought I needed to keep with a 240 longer than otherwise ideal.

As someone else said, I am actually now still well below 1:1.. and while a reserve is obviously a different beast, both size of this one, and general construction and piloting, I felt comfortable landing it, both pattern/location, and the flare (at least it was a low winder hop n pop. so no "out" reserve landings for me! (yet)

Also, yes I did put Sabre2 in the profile, but I shouldn't assume that is accurate for certain. It might not actually have been a S2- I was guessing until I find out for sure, since my understanding is that students fly Navs and transition/rentals are Sabre2s.. but not completely confident in that so don't quote me!

As I said I and others seem to think that I am pretty conservative canopy pilot (sometimes too conservative with toggle corrections or pattern adjustments, but I'm gettin' there!), and don't plan to "downsize" (beyond the transition to my 170/176R next season w/ my own gear) but I do think it's a good wing loading based on the charts I have read, and based on my instructors' feedback.. I'd say no if I felt uncomfortable, but I do trust my instructors and riggers, and I felt/feel good with the decision.. (well, unless there is a crucial piece of info that I lack, lol- but my experience leads me to think it was a good and safe call, and experienced folks discussed w/ me..)

I do agree, though, that it is a huge-sounding decrease-- 50 sq ft difference! But as one rigger explained to me, it's not just the *difference* between them in sq ft, it is the other factors like the properties of the canopies in question, the wing-loadings involved, and the sizes being compared as well (i.e. a 240 to a 190 is much less scary than a 150 to a 104 though the second is actually a smaller change in WL!)

Thanks for your input all!! I like that others look out for folk here (and at the non-cyber dz too), and am always open to input and ideas about safety etc.

Ok I have written another novel, time to go spank myself.. Angelic


(This post was edited by skyflower_bloom on Nov 1, 2010, 9:18 PM)


TSISK  (B 36373)

Nov 1, 2010, 4:11 PM
Post #24 of 76 (2229 views)
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Re: [skyflower_bloom] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
time to go spank myself.. Angelic
\
BlushBlushBlushBlushBlushBlush


skyflower_bloom  (A 59229)

Nov 1, 2010, 4:12 PM
Post #25 of 76 (2225 views)
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Re: [TSISK] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
time to go spank myself.. Angelic
\
BlushBlushBlushBlushBlushBlush

woohoo... wanna help me out?

Angelic


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