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pulling low

 

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monkeysfist

Oct 11, 2010, 2:56 AM
Post #1 of 102 (3958 views)
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pulling low Can't Post

ok iv got around 200+ jumps. Still learning but feel i know how to be safe enough when it comes to my pull height. Iv got verbly attacked on my local dz last week for pulling at 2500ft (opened at 1994 ft). iv asked other more experienced jumpers about it and they dont seem to have a huge deal with it. only this 1 person. Iv had a high speed mal before when pulling at this height and was fine. my justification for pulling at this height is not just that but also when you finish your training your signed off for pulling at that height. anyway my question is was she right for attacking me. she has approx 400 jumps. want to know what others think since i jump at a very small dz.


P-dro

Oct 11, 2010, 3:02 AM
Post #2 of 102 (3944 views)
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Re: [monkeysfist] pulling low [In reply to] Can't Post

In France, minimum pull height is 2800 feet....
So 2500 seems low especially for your experience level.






Ron

Oct 11, 2010, 7:38 AM
Post #5 of 102 (3758 views)
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Re: [monkeysfist] pulling low [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
my justification for pulling at this height is not just that but also when you finish your training your signed off for pulling at that height.

That's not true.

Quote:
G. Minimum opening altitudes [E]

Minimum container opening altitudes above the ground for skydivers are:

1. Tandem jumps—4,500 feet AGL

2. All students and A-license holders—3,000 feet AGL

3. B-license holders—2,500 feet AGL

4. C- and D-license holders—2,000 feet AGL

Now if you have a B or above you would be correct, but students and A's are only allowed at 3k.

Quote:
anyway my question is was she right for attacking me.

Attacking? No. Concerned and bringing it up? Sure.

Hey, I had a guy with 200 jumps give me grief for pulling at 2.5k Even telling him I had 4k jumps didn't change his opinion. So I just thanked him and ignored him.

That being said.... Ever notice that the guys with thousands of jumps tend to pull higher than the min's????? There is a reason for that.


DocPop  (C License)

Oct 11, 2010, 9:09 AM
Post #6 of 102 (3713 views)
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Re: [monkeysfist] pulling low [In reply to] Can't Post

My view is that I would rather have more time to deal with a mal, do my post-opening admin, get back to the DZ, fit into a logical place in the landing pattern, set up for my front riser turn etc than to have an extra 5 seconds of freefall.

I regularly pull at 4,000'.

Personally I think low pulling is an unnecessary risk. But then I suppose so is swooping so whatever.




727_Jumper

Oct 11, 2010, 9:29 AM
Post #8 of 102 (3692 views)
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Re: [monkeysfist] pulling low [In reply to] Can't Post

I've got a whole mess of pulls at 2k with an F111 canopy and no AAD... luckily, no malfunctions.

Now I'm jumping a Sabre2 (with AAD), which does take longer to open, so I pull around 4k most of the time now. I've got time to deal with any issues and get a nice canopy ride in. I don't need to milk the sky for all the freefall time I can anymore.


Premier NWFlyer  (D 29960)

Oct 11, 2010, 9:43 AM
Post #9 of 102 (3678 views)
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Re: [monkeysfist] pulling low [In reply to] Can't Post

"Because I can" isn't a really great reason for pulling low. Why do you want to pull low?

As for me, although I can suck it lower and have, on most jumps I like to throw out at about 3,000, which has me happily in the saddle by 2500-2700 feet. The occasions where I've taken it lower have been ones where pulling lower was likely to lower my risk (for example, a bigger-way jump where my tracking wave was expected to pull lower, or a mid-size jump where breakoff traffic was such that I wanted to give myself a little more cushion).

So what's your reason?

(Oh, and if it was the DZO or his/her representative who talked to you after your jump, remember that you jump at their pleasure ... (assuming you're in the US) the USPA BSRs may say one thing; they can apply whatever rules on top of those that they would like. You're free to jump elsewhere if you don't like that).


(This post was edited by NWFlyer on Oct 11, 2010, 11:14 AM)


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Oct 11, 2010, 10:17 AM
Post #10 of 102 (3623 views)
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Re: [monkeysfist] pulling low [In reply to] Can't Post

>anyway my question is was she right for attacking me.

Was she right to "attack?" Probably not.

Was she right to comment on it? Probably. Pulling at 2500 feet is a bit on the low side depending on what canopy you have. (Of course, now that you're off student status, you can feel free to ignore her.)


TiaDanger  (A 56121)

Oct 11, 2010, 11:09 AM
Post #11 of 102 (3595 views)
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Re: [monkeysfist] pulling low [In reply to] Can't Post

I heard that my DZO Bill Dause never pulls below 4000 ft, and he has 34,000 jumps. There is some wisdom to be learned from somebody with that many jumps. The extra freefall is not worth it IMO.


airtwardo  (D License)

Oct 11, 2010, 3:07 PM
Post #12 of 102 (3511 views)
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Re: [DocPop] pulling low [In reply to] Can't Post

 

I regularly pull at 4,000'.

Personally I think low pulling is an unnecessary risk

Ummmmm....so's skydiving. Laugh


absane  (A 58418)

Oct 11, 2010, 11:39 PM
Post #13 of 102 (3408 views)
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Re: [monkeysfist] pulling low [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
ok iv got around 200+ jumps....my justification for pulling at this height is not just that but also when you finish your training your signed off for pulling at that height.

I could be wrong, but I think this guy is a troll.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Oct 12, 2010, 1:57 AM
Post #14 of 102 (3375 views)
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Re: [monkeysfist] pulling low [In reply to] Can't Post

Go for it, what could possibly go wrong with you “mad skillz”! Angelic

Sparky


monkeysfist

Oct 12, 2010, 9:13 AM
Post #15 of 102 (3272 views)
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Re: [absane] pulling low [In reply to] Can't Post

Not sure what you mean by a troll.. please explain.

Iv got C licience to the person who wrote the list. Cheers for the replys to all. yeah i know its an unnessary risk but alot of us go through that phase i guess.

iv got a piliot 169ft. to the person who asked.

No it was not some one who works at the dz or owns the dz. just another fun jumper.

the thing that is bugging me is that there are other people at the dz with less experience (less jumps and currency) who pull at similar height with her and she does not go at them.. purly for the reason that im one of the younger people who jump at the dz. well thats my opinion. and thats all it is.


OG-Tahiti  (C 38906)

Oct 12, 2010, 10:26 AM
Post #16 of 102 (3246 views)
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Re: [monkeysfist] pulling low [In reply to] Can't Post

I would pull higher for 2 main reasons that you should maybe consider:

You will not always have a good spot, or you could be on a tracking dive and old habits kick in and you pull "low". Good luck making it back to the DZ.

If you have a few problems in a row you will not have enough altitude to react. Problem with the handle that delays the pull, long sniveling opening followed by a tension knot when you release your brakes that throws you into a spin and you can start to be pretty low and haven't even cutaway yet.

If all goes according to plan then of course there is no major concern about pulling at 2500ft. But we all know thats never the case Laugh


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Oct 12, 2010, 12:48 PM
Post #17 of 102 (3200 views)
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Re: [monkeysfist] pulling low [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
the thing that is bugging me is that there are other people at the dz with less experience (less jumps and currency) who pull at similar height with her and she does not go at them.. purly for the reason that im one of the younger people who jump at the dz. well thats my opinion. and thats all it is.

Two things: just because you are younger everyone is out to keep you from having fun and others do it so I am going to do it.

I hope you make through this “phase”.

Sparky


Premier DSE  (D 29060)
Moderator
Oct 12, 2010, 1:03 PM
Post #18 of 102 (3183 views)
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Re: [monkeysfist] pulling low [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Not sure what you mean by a troll.. please explain.

Iv got C licience to the person who wrote the list. Cheers for the replys to all. yeah i know its an unnessary risk but alot of us go through that phase i guess.

iv got a piliot 169ft. to the person who asked.

No it was not some one who works at the dz or owns the dz. just another fun jumper.

the thing that is bugging me is that there are other people at the dz with less experience (less jumps and currency) who pull at similar height with her and she does not go at them.. purly for the reason that im one of the younger people who jump at the dz. well thats my opinion. and thats all it is.

~just because others pull lower and no one says anything doesn't make it any more right for them than you.

~Just because you *can* do something doesn't mean you *should* do something.

And that said...if you plan to deploy low, be sure your spotting skills are on.
This guy got out at 5K, had plenty of time to deploy (you can hear his audible tones), and didn't deploy til quite low. Others on his load made it back. He didn't.


Hellis

Oct 12, 2010, 1:19 PM
Post #19 of 102 (3165 views)
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Re: [DSE] pulling low [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Not sure what you mean by a troll.. please explain.

Iv got C licience to the person who wrote the list. Cheers for the replys to all. yeah i know its an unnessary risk but alot of us go through that phase i guess.

iv got a piliot 169ft. to the person who asked.

No it was not some one who works at the dz or owns the dz. just another fun jumper.

the thing that is bugging me is that there are other people at the dz with less experience (less jumps and currency) who pull at similar height with her and she does not go at them.. purly for the reason that im one of the younger people who jump at the dz. well thats my opinion. and thats all it is.

~just because others pull lower and no one says anything doesn't make it any more right for them than you.

~Just because you *can* do something doesn't mean you *should* do something.

And that said...if you plan to deploy low, be sure your spotting skills are on.
This guy got out at 5K, had plenty of time to deploy (you can hear his audible tones), and didn't deploy til quite low. Others on his load made it back. He didn't.

~And just because you can upload more than 10 minutes of video to youtube now does not mean its a good idea.
Smile

Skip the first 10 minutes and you will be a much happier human


jakee  (C License)

Oct 12, 2010, 2:52 PM
Post #20 of 102 (3121 views)
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Re: [absane] pulling low [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
ok iv got around 200+ jumps....my justification for pulling at this height is not just that but also when you finish your training your signed off for pulling at that height.

I could be wrong, but I think this guy is a troll.

I think you're definitely wrong (unless it's the lamest troll attempt ever).

Pulling at 2.5k with 200 jumps is not unreasonable. It's getting towards the low side of reasonable, but it's not unreasonable. Certainly not troll-worthy!


airtwardo  (D License)

Oct 12, 2010, 2:55 PM
Post #21 of 102 (3117 views)
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pulling low [In reply to] Can't Post

Use to be 200 jumps qualified ya for a D, hich is where many D's pulled back then...just sayin' Wink


fasted3  (D 30104)

Oct 12, 2010, 3:18 PM
Post #22 of 102 (3104 views)
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Re: [monkeysfist] pulling low [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Iv got verbly attacked on my local dz last week for pulling at 2500ft (opened at 1994 ft)

Where did you get this number: 1994 ft.?


Premier DSE  (D 29060)
Moderator
Oct 12, 2010, 4:08 PM
Post #23 of 102 (3066 views)
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Re: [Hellis] pulling low [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

~And just because you can upload more than 10 minutes of video to youtube now does not mean its a good idea.
Smile

Skip the first 10 minutes and you will be a much happier human


Yes, skip the first 10:30 ride to altitude.
Give the dude a break.
It was his first camera jump, borrowed camera helmet from someone, demo jump on a Pulse, and "The lowest I've ever pulled, dude!!! Scared the sh**outta me" jump. Oh, he has 50 jumps.


Were it my video, I'd apologize.


kimemerson  (D 13439)

Oct 12, 2010, 5:03 PM
Post #24 of 102 (3021 views)
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Re: [monkeysfist] pulling low [In reply to] Can't Post

Christ! It wasn't that long ago that we wouldn't even be having this discussion about a person with 200 jumps and a C license deploying at 2,500'. It's largely the canopies that have changed, along with faster falling due to head down flying. But nothing has changed for those who still fly flat and jump a canopy that doesn't take 1,000' to open. 2,500' is not low. It's the flying that is fast and the canopies that are slow (to open). So in a way, no, you should not have been taken to task over this. And if the message was delivered as you state - an attack - then it is further out of line.

As for license requirements, I'm not sure about this, but you sound (possibly) British and so USPA requirements aren't likely appropriate anyway.


millertime24  (C 38793)

Oct 12, 2010, 5:08 PM
Post #25 of 102 (3016 views)
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Re: [monkeysfist] pulling low [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Not sure what you mean by a troll.. please explain.

Iv got C licience to the person who wrote the list. Cheers for the replys to all. yeah i know its an unnessary risk but alot of us go through that phase i guess.

iv got a piliot 169ft. to the person who asked.

No it was not some one who works at the dz or owns the dz. just another fun jumper.

the thing that is bugging me is that there are other people at the dz with less experience (less jumps and currency) who pull at similar height with her and she does not go at them.. purly for the reason that im one of the younger people who jump at the dz. well thats my opinion. and thats all it is.

Ive got a Pilot as well (a 150), and I generally pull at about 2K on bigways and h&p's and about 2,600' on wingsuit jumps. Call me crazy, but I want to make DAMN sure there isn't anyone near me when I open and since most others are afraid to pull that low (which isnt really THAT low) I'm 98% sure I'll never be opening near anyone. BTW, on the 2k pulls I generally saddle at about 1,500' and on 2,600' pulls I usually saddle out by 2k. Either way, pleanty of time to "deal" with stowing wings/slider/ loosening chest strap ets... Also, I hold a C license so its all legal and what not.


(This post was edited by millertime24 on Oct 12, 2010, 5:11 PM)


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